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Establishing Grass

PureCountry

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
2,684
Location
Edgewood, BC, moving to Hardisty, AB
Wanted to ask all of you on here about establishing grass on cropland. We have made a deal with my folks to buy out the rest of the ranch, which consists of 860 acres of cropland that they've been renting to my good friend down the road. I want to put it all into forage in the spring, and I'm curious to know everyone's past experiences. This is very light and sandy land. Low organic matter levels, pH as low as 5.1 on the worst field, so I'm seriously considering letting these worst areas grow in "au naturale", and just graze them intensively on whatever comes up. By that I mean give 250 cows 1 or 2 acre strips for 12-24 hours, then let it rest again for the year. We'll have lots of mineral tubs out with alfalfa mixed in, and with the hoof action and stock density I'm thinking it could work well, but curious to know if anyone's tried it.

Northern, I remember you saying you did it on the home 1/2 there, did you put out any seed for that?

Thanks in advance folks.
 
I'm very curious about peoples experience with seed in the minerals, which seeds work, which ones don't?
 
Anything with a high hard seed count is supposed to work very well. Going through the cow scarifies the seed a bit and makes for better germination. Most alfalfas are that way.

A guy from Alberta Ag. told me that he's seen it work well with milkvetch and sanfoin, but I want to hear firsthand from people, so I know what the circumstances were and such. Just trying to save a few thousand bucks here and there if I can. :wink:
 
I know a guy here who drainned a lowland and bushhoged all the bogs off then fed hay on it in the winter.Went from slough grass to a very nice stand of timothy and red clover.
 
I don't know what your natural grasses are up there , or what your precip is there either. we have had better luck seeding are forages in the fall after wheat usally around August but if that isn't a option,this is my opioion. I'd seed timoithy and orchard grass with a little alfalfa. I would also throw some oats in wth it. When the oats get to the milk stage I'd bale it , then start grazing it. I don't know if you are familiar with a Aerway but when it is ran over the alfalfa and timitohy it splits the rizhomes ( I think thats how you spell it)and sends up a new plants. After the Alfalfa dies years later frost seed some red clover on it.Good Luck
 
I appreciate the advice Scout, but Timothy and Orchard grass don't seem to grow here in our light soils. Not sure if it's the low organic matter, the pH, or what, but they don't make it. Clovers only grow in the lower, wetter areas where the soil is black and rich, with a good calcium content.

Our annual rainfall(April - October) averages 12-13". Our "native" species consists of Western Wheatgrass, Rough Fescue, Needlegrass, Crested Wheat, Blue Gramma, Smooth Brome, Crabgrass, Bluegrass, Foxtail, and Northern's favorite, Quackgrass. There's others, but that gives you an idea.
 
Well I think unless your going to cadillac your grass in with all the bells and whistles-spray, fertilizer etc your better off the cheap seat it. Those pastures we went through won't establish well if you get drought and hoppers.You could try a little experiment on a few of those strips-broadcast a bit of rye, with vetch or whatever-after the cows have grazed it-then run your packers over it. I had good luck seeding rye at this time of year on frozen peat moss-we dumped it onto a foot of snow and let the freeze/thaw seed it. Or if you have the time just leave it be and spread it through the tubs and let the quackgrass fill in.
 
Agree with NR on the cadillac grasses...they need top fertility and management to come close to their claims.

Unroll and feed native, late cut grass hay on it...let the cows plant it.

I like rye too. :D
 
If we don't get snow runoff or early rains, nothing will establish. But when you get a failure after putting $70-$100/acre of that "Cadillac" treatment into the dust, it hurts alot more than if you'd just broadcasted seed. I do know this though, the thickest and heaviest stands of forage we have, are alfalfa brome that was seeded 3 years ago. We had a neighbour spray things first, then he seeded it for us. No fertilizer, just the seed. 1st year was OK, but we didn't cut it or graze it. 2nd year was good and we grazed it all lightly. This year was phenomenal. Brome was over the hood of the Ford, and the alfalfa was mid-thigh.

If we could get 850 more acres established like that over the next 2-3 years, we're laughing. We could stockpile alot more of our native stuff, giving it the rest it needs. I think the whole key is moisture management for us. When we sprayed things 3 years ago prior to seeding, it eliminated the competition. And since moisture is a scarce commodity around here, the less competition the grass has to put up with, the better it's chances.

At any rate, I'll certainly be giving it alot more thought over the coming months.
 
PC said:
I do know this though, the thickest and heaviest stands of forage we have, are alfalfa brome that was seeded 3 years ago.
There's your answer...replicate what works best on YOUR ranch. Why throw money away looking for a 'silver bullet' when you can replicate what you know works for you. It's the same with forage and cattle. That's why I don't understand ranchers constantly bringing in new genetics(looking for that 'silver bullet') instead of working to replicate the animals they know are working in THEIR environment.

Moisture and competition management are the two keys to successful plant agriculture.
 
gcreekrch said:
Is there a place to buy quackgrass seed?
Out here if it is green, the cows eat it, and it takes no maintainence, it is a good weed to have. :D
Check with university and other ag researchers for seed sources.
Had a friend that grew and harvested "weed" seeds to sell to these people to populate their research test plots.
Warning: could be expensive...government researcher got plenty of your money to spend! :o :wink:
 
Pure Country, the broadcasting seed or feeding 'seedy' hay on the ground in fall/winter/early spring are intriguing to me. My only real experience with that is not pasture related, but a relative broadcast Buffalo grass seed in her yard in late April/early March one year during a snow storm. The snow pressed the seed into the ground among the less desireabe existing grasses and she got a great carefree lawn out of the deal.

Sometime after that, we saw places in Nevada where mine tailings reclamation was done by broadcasting seed, I believe signs said it was various varieties of Crested Wheatgrass, something that does well in the area. Then cattle were fed hay on the area and the resulting hoof action not only planted the seed, but left depressions that held the precious little rain long enough for it to soak in better than on undisturbed ground. It was considered more successful than other methods had been, as I recall.

When you got that great stand, was your moisture received that season usual, better than average, or less so? We've gone the route of the cadillac system and several less agressive ways. None works well in a drought!!!!

The spray and plant route seems the most sure, tho that didn't work out for us, as the plan was to plant first and spray the next day as that is what would work for the guy doing the planting. Bad luck for us....it rained during the night and the stuff sprouted and came up before we could get in the field to spray. We got lots of weeds, and are not even sure any of the 'expensive stuff', something called Sandpoint, came up, as we couldn't identify it amongst the various other plants from alfalfa to native grasses and forbs. Will see what happens next spring, I guess.

You have many of the same native grasses we do. One introduced grass we have, some type of brome, we sure wish the state had not planted on hiway right of way, as it really is overtaking our preferred native Bluestems and Western Wheatgrasses.

It all seems such a crap game, and I don't much like games! The moisture is so erratic here. We did get 17" until mid-Oct. here, with a very dry Aug., Sept. and early Oct. Yesterday we got 1 inch of rain, then turned to 'snain', and since 5:AM has been snow. The ground gets almost white, then melts off. Wicked strong wind. But it is much worse south and west of us, with over a foot at our sons' house in sw Rapid City. Lots of people without electric power. This will be pretty hard on livestock, especially for any who fall calve if they don't have very good shelter.

mrj
 
mytfarms said:
gcreekrch said:
Is there a place to buy quackgrass seed?
Begging your pardon for my ignorance, but what's quackgrass?

Quackgrass sorta looks like wheat, but is a much closer resemblence to wheatgrass if you've seen wheatgrass before. It's considered a weed in crop production because of the tillering action that enables it to spread out and reproduce daughter plants (also called tillers) all over the feild or pasture. However, lately quackgrass is now being recognized as a good pasture grass or probably hay grass because of its high nutritional quality and palatability for cattle. There are no specific places that it can and can't grow because quackgrass is very adaptable like the coyote to almost any environment in North America.

http://www.weedsbc.ca/weed_desc/quack.html
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/quackgrass.htm

QuackgrassSeedHeads61.jpg


weed_quackgrass_wssa.jpg
 

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