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Ethanol's Effects On Cattlemen Offers Many Unknowns

By selecting better doing cattle. Don't matter what breed or size they are, some are just better doing than others, and that is what we need to target.
 
Yes, I think ethanol is here to stay. The general belief is that we need to be less dependant on foreign oil. But it needs to be able to stand on it's own two legs. As of now it really has no real benefit to the consumer dollar-wise.

It seems that the governemnt is subsidizing ethanol at about 52 cents a gallon. New plants are being built because of a government subsidy. On the other hand, there are many farmers who are remaining in business only because of the government payments.

If these farmers can get better prices on the market because of corn being used for ethanol, less Gov. money will be paid out to them. So far we have no idea what the new farm bill will look like, but I hope congress can look far enough ahead and make the right predictions to have a workable farm program in place for the next 5 to 10 years. To be honest, I really doubt if we have enough people in Washington who are smart enough to do this, but we have always got along somehow anyway.

The cattleman will most likely stay in business, but he will have many hurtles to cross and we may see some drastic changes. I see this thing much different than I did a couple of years ago. Back then it looked like he was only a few steps away from asking the government to keep him in business.
 
What is "better doing"?

I think folks have tried to make that part of their selection for many years. Does anyone intentionally sell "bad doing" animals?

Are we more efficient now?

How much efficiency is enough?



Badlands
 
To me "better doing" are cattle that are easy keeping year round, have natural muscle, length, and depth while putting it on fast and cheap in the feedlot.

I don't think people intentionally have "poor doing cattle" but their are some ranchers that buy a bull just because they need one and don't try to improve what they have. In my travels, at the barns, and in the lots I have seen quite a few poor cattle. (gutless, zero muscle, fine boned, poor disposition, etc.) I think in order to keep making money with these higher corn prices, those type of cattle have to be eliminated. Some cattle have a 6 to 1 gain in the lot, while some have a 7 to 1, but then their are the cattle that do it at a 5 to 1. These are the kind that work, what ever the size, color, or breed they are.
 
Clarencen said:
Yes, I think ethanol is here to stay. The general belief is that we need to be less dependant on foreign oil. But it needs to be able to stand on it's own two legs. As of now it really has no real benefit to the consumer dollar-wise.

It seems that the governemnt is subsidizing ethanol at about 52 cents a gallon. New plants are being built because of a government subsidy. On the other hand, there are many farmers who are remaining in business only because of the government payments.
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This is my problem with ethanol, once the Government gets involved things get screwed up. Years ago when people here in KS were talking about building ethanol plants and selling stock in them as a free enterprise. I was for it, but now that the Government is mandating it be in all gasoline and subsidizing it now I am against it.

I do not believe ethanol can ever stand on its own two feet, it will never exist with out Subsidy. It will be just another welfare program from the Government.

It is not efficient, it sucks money from the economy in more than one area. It takes more tax dollars to exist, it hurts other agriculture areas, such as Beef, Pork, Chicken industries, it will push prices up on other crops that are loosing land to plant corn.

Since it is less efficient we will buy more gallons of gasoline that has ethanol in it than if we bought regular gasoline. Which will financially hit all Americans not just those in agriculture. Due to being less efficient we will be paying more tax dollars since gas taxes are based on per gallon not on a percentage of dollar like sales tax.

I believe in the free market, I can not condone any enterprise that can only survive due to welfare from the Government. I would support ethanol if it was a free market enterprise but not as a pet project of the politicians to play politics with.
 
I don't want to step on any toes with this post, but here goes.

Their are also the guys that have a $100,000 combine, $70,000 tractor, airseeder, a couple semi's, and a big spray outfit. These probably all add up to more than $500,000 in iron, and then they put thousands of $'s into their crops, which is ok, then they also have 200 head of cows, but they will not spend more than $1250 on a bull to breed them to. If they want the same type of results on the cow end of their business, they need to put the same kind of energy into their cattle. I think by improving all ends of the cattle industry, cattle will become "better doing"
 
>>I believe in the free market, I can not condone any enterprise that can only survive due to welfare from the Government. I would support ethanol if it was a free market enterprise but not as a pet project of the politicians to play politics with.<<

AMEN!!! and pass the tators!!

Seriously, you are right. A lot of people in here get their feelings hurt about subsidies, but they are a form of welfare. The invisible hand of the free market should be allowed to work.
 
Sorry guys but I too don't like farm subsidies... I know of some who have wrote off thousands and drive and live way above their means.. Also I think it takes away from farmer helping farmer....
 
There are good and indifferent parts to the farm bill. The USDA farm bill also consists of food stamps for those people who are not able to help themselves. The farm bill is there for those who want it or need it. I like it because it helps out young farmers and those getting started. Should those who take advantage of it be considered welfare bums. Sorry, I cannot cast the first stone.
 
MoGal said:
Well, I think cattlemen are getting ready to go through what agriculture farmers already have.......... they had grain here in the USA but it was a few cents more so companies imported from China and look at the mess its become and simply because they could save some money.

The same will happen with beef. You don't want to sell yours for 30 cents a pound, fine we'll import it from other countries (just like the grain came in from China). Look at all the countries wanting to increase their beef import to the USA. The only way beef producers are going to keep even is to LIMIT beef imports.

Free trade isn't free, the american people are paying dearly for it.
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I believe that China is a net importer of grains.

I can't verify this, but have heard that the empty container ships heading back for China also carry back alot of DDG. Maybe the Talapia need a little fat and protien with their raw sewage diet. :D :D
 
I'm not anti-ethanol, we've been buying it in bulk for years. But just think of the actual energy that would have been provided this nation if all of the money and incentives that have been put into the ethanol industry would have instead been used to create refinery capacity, expand offshore drilling, and allow drilling in Anwar.
 
BRG said:
I don't want to step on any toes with this post, but here goes.

Their are also the guys that have a $100,000 combine, $70,000 tractor, airseeder, a couple semi's, and a big spray outfit. These probably all add up to more than $500,000 in iron, and then they put thousands of $'s into their crops, which is ok, then they also have 200 head of cows, but they will not spend more than $1250 on a bull to breed them to. If they want the same type of results on the cow end of their business, they need to put the same kind of energy into their cattle. I think by improving all ends of the cattle industry, cattle will become "better doing"
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AMEN! There is a BIG difference between a tiller of the soil who has some cows, and a cattleman who does some farming!

 
Cal said:
I'm not anti-ethanol, we've been buying it in bulk for years. But just think of the actual energy that would have been provided this nation if all of the money and incentives that have been put into the ethanol industry would have instead been used to create refinery capacity, expand offshore drilling, and allow drilling in Anwar.
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Yeah brother. I hate to knock ethanol, especially since my father is a grain farmer and looking forward to some of the highest grain prices that he's seen in years, but its truly a rediculous way to try and gain energy independence. I've read some studies on the stuff, and if you take the middle road guys word for things, you're talking about 10% return on energy expenditure. In other words, you use 100 gallons of fuel to get enough corn/barley and process it to get 110 gallons of fuel back. At the low end of studies I've seen a net LOSS of energy. So who ya gonna believe?

My take on it is that its simply a way for government to prop up the fuel companies without being too obvious about it, not the farmers. We should be looking to alternative forms of energy for locomotion such as Bio fuels that require no dependence on oil at all. Or electricity. Or hydrogen. Or? All that government money going into ethanol should be moved elsewhere where it will be of more benefit.

I think, eventually, the ethanol craze will die out leaving alot of farmers holding the bag on new equipment that they bought for the production of ethanol grains. Then we'll see a bad crash in prices and alot of people hurting.

Rod
 
DiamondSCattleCo said:
Cal said:
I'm not anti-ethanol, we've been buying it in bulk for years. But just think of the actual energy that would have been provided this nation if all of the money and incentives that have been put into the ethanol industry would have instead been used to create refinery capacity, expand offshore drilling, and allow drilling in Anwar.
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Yeah brother. I hate to knock ethanol, especially since my father is a grain farmer and looking forward to some of the highest grain prices that he's seen in years, but its truly a rediculous way to try and gain energy independence. I've read some studies on the stuff, and if you take the middle road guys word for things, you're talking about 10% return on energy expenditure. In other words, you use 100 gallons of fuel to get enough corn/barley and process it to get 110 gallons of fuel back. At the low end of studies I've seen a net LOSS of energy. So who ya gonna believe?

My take on it is that its simply a way for government to prop up the fuel companies without being too obvious about it, not the farmers. We should be looking to alternative forms of energy for locomotion such as Bio fuels that require no dependence on oil at all. Or electricity. Or hydrogen. Or? All that government money going into ethanol should be moved elsewhere where it will be of more benefit.

I think, eventually, the ethanol craze will die out leaving alot of farmers holding the bag on new equipment that they bought for the production of ethanol grains. Then we'll see a bad crash in prices and alot of people hurting.

Rod
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I agree, there might be a short gain in Corn farming but in the end it will still be the Oil companies making the money off of the ethanol, if they add 10% ethanol (E10) as many states are mandating, 10% will wash out because of the lower efficiency and the energy it takes to produce it. In the end E10 would probably be a wash and no decrease in oil from the Towel heads.

And if we talk E85 a broad movement towards this could really set the economy upside down, it is so inefficient a tank full of E85 in a Chevy pickup would go probably 100 less miles. Saw a consumer report where a Yukon got 19 mpg with regular gas and 12 mpg with E85. The price would not be any lower, it would be subsidized with our tax dollars, people complain now at $3.00 per gallon. Try paying the same price but also buy an extra 5-10 gallons a week more than usual on top of it.

My personal opinion is battery power is what we need in future. It would not work for all people, but for 70% of the population or more that only do short trips daily it would work plenty good. The technology is already available for this. In California a few years ago there was already a few thousand of them on the roads until all were smashed and destroyed.

Anyone interested in seeing how capable the Batter car is search out a movie entitled "Who killed the Electric car"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
 
Cal said:
I'm not anti-ethanol, we've been buying it in bulk for years. But just think of the actual energy that would have been provided this nation if all of the money and incentives that have been put into the ethanol industry would have instead been used to create refinery capacity, expand offshore drilling, and allow drilling in Anwar.
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Would have had an even better net gain in long term energy independance if the money the past 10 years or so was spent on coal gasification as that is one resource this country has huge reserves of.. And I mean HUGE..

As far as DDGS being sent to china that is what we were hearing around here when contacting plants and wondering why some weren't selling wet period or very limited supplies.. Got the response that it was being dried and shipped to China on contract.... Have two plants opening in the next 12 months very near here.. Still not a solution IMO and we will need something better or different in the very enar future.
 
In addition to battery power for short range jaunts in towns and cities, another technology that hasn't gotten a fair crack is canola based diesels. Research money for this technology pretty much dried up in the ethanol craze, even though canola crackers were truly making some gains. Energy levels were on the rise, and making it work in cold climates was beginning to get some real attention.

Rod
 
Here's what I think Big Oil is driveing the price of fuel,which in turn Many ethanol plants are being built once they get them all up and running I would bet the price of gas and diesel will plummet breaking all these small time modern ethanol plants.Then Big Oil will buy them up for bargain prices and after that they will have total control.It may not happen but if I was going to bet that's where my dollar bet would be placed.
 

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