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Factory Farms/EPA/Farm Bill

Tex

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One of the best things that could happen to the corporate hog farmers in the Carolinas was a limit on new farms because of the waste disposal systems (there was environmental damage after hurricane and floods). The state would not allow new ones to be built.

The reason it was good was that if one of these farmers were to go under, that amount of production would not be replaced because it could not by another factory farm. The packers had to be good to their farmers or they lost supply.

The game packers play with their supply is to make the purchase of the farmers product good enough for farmers to make investments (mostly single use buildings and equipment) and then put the screws to them in subsequent years by requiring continual upgrades the farmers must make on his dime with no compensation or not be able to use the farm investments at all--the packer will cut them off. What continual upgrades do not take out of the farmer's profit, inflation will.

Then packers offer a better deal to new farmers to induce them into the business. They pay more or advantage the new farmers through the things in they control in their contract.

One of the main goals is to have farmers owing debt. When you owe debt, as Dave Ramsey says, you are a slave. The debt does not allow farmers to get out of the business without suffering great financial loss--often their land and homes. Since the contracts are not paid based on just on the product that is produced, but also the facilities are used, the packers have automatically discounted the value of their farms. The packers in this way control their supply going into their plants with no effect if one farmer decides to get out of the ponzi scheme. Another way they control the supply for a particular plant is through the velocity or the rapidity that there is a turn around, if there is one farm that goes under.

They thus are able to keep their farmers

They have built a supply system that is the cheapest -- but off the backs of the farmers- because they pay their existing farmers their variable costs, which does not include profit. The new farmers who are induced into the system are have to be shown to paid a profit, or they would not invest in the operation in the first place. That is the reason they pay them more for the same product utilizing a variety of tricks or unfair advantages, which of course, is outlawed under the Packers and Stockyards Act:

Quote:
(a) Engage in or use any unfair, unjustly discriminatory, or deceptive practice or device; or

(b) Make or give any undue or unreasonable preference or advantage to any particular person or locality in any respect whatsoever, or subject any particular person or locality to any undue or unreasonable prejudice or disadvantage in any respect whatsoever; or

(c) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other packer or any live poultry dealer, any article for the purpose or with the effect of apportioning the supply between any such persons, if such apportionment has the tendency or effect of restraining commerce or of creating a monopoly; or

(d) Sell or otherwise transfer to or for any other person, or buy or otherwise receive from or for any other person, any article for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(e) Engage in any course of business or do any act for the purpose or with the effect of manipulating or controlling prices, or of creating a monopoly in the acquisition of, buying, selling, or dealing in, any article, or of restraining commerce; or

(f) Conspire, combine, agree, or arrange, with any other person (1) to apportion territory for carrying on business, or (2) to apportion purchases or sales of any article, or (3) to manipulate or control prices; or

(g) Conspire, combine, agree or arrange with any other person to do, or aid or abet the doing of, any act made unlawful by subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e). (7 U.S.C. 192)


Of course this this the law the packers tried to get rid of legislatively but were not able to.

The Pickett case decision allowed them to do this.


This is why the new farm bill has much of title 10, to correct these problems the courts have not.

Find title 10 by going to agriculture.senate.gov and then go to Section by sections, and look up title 10.

Here is the amendment that will change the liberal court's decision:


Quote:
Harkin-Enzi No Competitive Injury Amendment #3667 - (Clarification that the Packers and Stockyards Act (PSA) Protects Individual Farmers from Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practice) –VOTE IN SUPPORT OF HARKIN ENZI AMENDMENT

For 85 years that Packers and Stockyards Act has protected individual farmers from unfair and deceptive trade practices. However, some judges have recently required producers to also show not only individual harm, but also "competitive harm" to the entire industry. The "competitive harm" language is not in the Act. This amendment will return PSA interpretation to its original intent, and is supported by the USDA. (See fact sheet at http://tinyurl.com/2qtejb ).
Tester-Harkin Grassley No Legitimate Business Justification Amendment #3666- VOTE IN SUPPORT OF TESTER HARKIN GRASSLEY AMENDMENT

Price manipulation is wrong, and prohibited by the Packers & Stockyards Act (PSA). Some judges have recently ruled that price manipulation is excused if the packer had a legitimate business justification, such as buying sufficient livestock, though this language is not in the PSA. Packers can buy livestock without manipulating prices. This amendment will return PSA interpretation to its original intent. (See fact sheet at http://tinyurl.com/335qr5 ).
 
Since the contracts are not paid based on just on the product that is produced, but also the facilities are used, the packers have automatically discounted the value of their farms.

What could change all of this would be contracts written by farmers ,that would pay for the facilities labor and % of inflation. The the packers would then have to shop for the farmers.
 
PORKER said:
Since the contracts are not paid based on just on the product that is produced, but also the facilities are used, the packers have automatically discounted the value of their farms.

What could change all of this would be contracts written by farmers ,that would pay for the facilities labor and % of inflation. The the packers would then have to shop for the farmers.

None of the production contracts are currently being written by farmers at this time. They are given to the farmers and the farmers have to sign or have no space at the packer's facilities. Many of these contracts are not even given to the farmers--but they have to sign them in order to keep from losing the value of their facilities.

The packers are prevented from writing contracts that are unfair, or that give unreasonable advantage to one farmer over another farmer in any respect whatsoever (in any region), or making up contracts that that subject a particular person or locality to any undue or unreasonable prjudice or disadvantage in any respect whatsoever.

The USDA (GIPSA) didn't believe in enforcing this law and so they didn't.

It is THE reason the enforcement of this law will be given to a special counsel in Title 10 of the farm bill and taken away from the USDA's attorneys who have only worked for the packers in their actions.

Just a reminder---GIPSA was established to ENFORCE the PSA, something they have not done, and instead have tried to bend over backward to prevent its enforcement --all for the benefit of packers. JoAnn Waterfield was an OGC (office of general counsel-- the attorneys for the USDA) attorney and blocked every effort to enforce this law the agency is supposed to enforce, before she became administrator of GIPSA. As a matter of fact, she argued the Pickett type case internally in GIPSA, purposely losing, so the case would never come up and they wouldn't have to enforce the PSA's provisions. They didn't want to protect the farmer's supply (packer inputs) from anticompetitive behavior.
 
JoAnn Waterfield was an OGC (office of general counsel-- the attorneys for the USDA) attorney and blocked every effort to enforce this law the agency is supposed to enforce, before she became administrator of GIPSA. As a matter of fact, she argued the Pickett type case internally in GIPSA, purposely losing, so the case would never come up and they wouldn't have to enforce the PSA's provisions.

Where is JoAnn Waterfield ?
 
The Agriculture Department has decided not to take action against a former agency official who blocked investigations into predatory pricing in the nation's $120 billion livestock trade.

Gross mismanagement, not criminal conduct, by JoAnn Waterfield is to blame for several years of obstruction, department Inspector General Phyllis Fong told the Senate Agriculture Committee on Thursday.

�I'm not sure what further action could be taken,� said Fong, who released an audit on the problems in January. �What we found I guess we would best characterize as tremendous mismanagement.�

There was �no indication of criminal conduct,� Fong added.

This pretty well sums up the past 7 years of what we've got out of D.C. too....Total waste of taxpayers dollars... :(
 
I don't know about Fong's statement of "no indication of criminal conduct". I think if all the facts were known, and Fong didn't get into all those facts in the scope of her investigation, there might be some criminal conduct found, and if not criminal, at least political. I think a good case for RICCO violations could be found.

JoAnn Waterfield can not be found because she has too much dirt on a lot of people who don't want to get dirty. How can you uncover the dirt if it is hidden? The OGC attorneys need to answer a lot of questions on their conduct as well.

Come out of hiding, JoAnn Waterfield.

Congress should pass title 10 of the farm bill or those investigations should commence.
 
PORKER said:
Can someone give me the definition of a factory farm?

Vertical intergrated unless someone thinks different.
A friend of mine I sell calves to has a vertically integrated turkey business. It's owned by him. It's managed by him. Is this a factory farm?
 
Red Robin said:
Can someone give me the definition of a factory farm?

Around here, when farmers use it, it means, any farm with one more (acre, cow, pig) than my farm. When non-farmers use it, it means any farm that's bigger than the farm they grew up on or their grandparents grew up on.
 
Webster's New Millennium defines it as "a system of large-scale industrialized and intensive agriculture that is focused on profit with animals kept indoors and restricted in mobility."
 
DaleK said:
Red Robin said:
Can someone give me the definition of a factory farm?

Around here, when farmers use it, it means, any farm with one more (acre, cow, pig) than my farm. When non-farmers use it, it means any farm that's bigger than the farm they grew up on or their grandparents grew up on.
Exactly. I wonder why it has such a negative meaning? Does everyone want to be the exact size they are? Is there something wrong with growing?
 
Factory farming is usually a term used to describe confinement systems for pigs, in controlled environment buildings, battery cages for laying hens, also usually in controlled environment buildings, broiler raising systems based on maximum birds per square yard in controlled environment buildings, indoor dairies where cows are stalled and fed rather than grazed and beef feedlots. The negative perceptions are that as these animals cannot express natural behavior, it is cruel to raise them in these systems, and a multitude of environmental issues concening air quality and waste disposal add to the negative image.

Verticle integration is a system in which the company owns the genetics, controlls the breeding and finishing of the stock, owns or controlls their feed mills and rations, owns their processing and packing facilities, and markets under their own trademarks. Many of the large, corporate companies use the confinement systems, but two examples of the opposite type of system used are Fawley Farms in England that breed outdoor pigs and market through Waitrose, a high quality supermarket chain, recieving premiums for their high welfare 'natural' product. Another is a ranching company in South Africa which maintain their own Brahman herds but buy in terminal bulls, do some feedlotting own their own abattoir and retail outlets, S.B.Rens in Hammanskraal 50 km north of Pretoria.
 
Oldtimer said:
[This pretty well sums up the past 7 years of what we've got out of D.C. too....Total waste of taxpayers dollars... :(


Oldtimer, and you still believe that R-CALF can change this by going to Washington, D.C. total waste of producers dollars!

Don't you think its about time we stood up for ourselves and said, no more, when is R-CALF going to do that?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 
Ben Roberts said:
Oldtimer said:
[This pretty well sums up the past 7 years of what we've got out of D.C. too....Total waste of taxpayers dollars... :(


Oldtimer, and you still believe that R-CALF can change this by going to Washington, D.C. total waste of producers dollars!

Don't you think its about time we stood up for ourselves and said, no more, when is R-CALF going to do that?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I kind of think thats what R-CALF has been doing- everything legal to change and take back the system- lobbying, courts, informing the masses.....The only next step is armed rebellion- which I think all agree is not where they hope this country ends up, altho many believe it will occur ....
 
Gross mismanagement, not criminal conduct, by JoAnn Waterfield is to blame for several years of obstruction, department Inspector General Phyllis Fong told the Senate Agriculture Committee on Thursday.

I'm really questioning this anymore--since now in the court cases and hearings on the subprime housing loans scandal-- many of the regulators that were supposed to be overseeing the lending industry are saying the same thing that the USDA investigators said--They were told by their bosses (Bush appointees) not to do anything- just shuffle paper and make it look good...They say they saw the problems but were hindered at every step to do anything to expose them.... :(

This now looks like an M.O. of the Administration and its guidance to its crony appointees- to forget/overlook/not enforce the law when it pertained to any corporate industry..... :( :( :mad: :mad:
And sadly now we will all suffer for it......
 
Oldtimer said:
Ben Roberts said:
Oldtimer said:
[This pretty well sums up the past 7 years of what we've got out of D.C. too....Total waste of taxpayers dollars... :(


Oldtimer, and you still believe that R-CALF can change this by going to Washington, D.C. total waste of producers dollars!

Don't you think its about time we stood up for ourselves and said, no more, when is R-CALF going to do that?

Best Regards
Ben Roberts

I kind of think thats what R-CALF has been doing- everything legal to change and take back the system- lobbying, courts, informing the masses.....The only next step is armed rebellion- which I think all agree is not where they hope this country ends up, altho many believe it will occur ....

You're not going to take back anything from the packers that they don't want you to as long as they have the USDA in their pockets. Not even going to begin to happen. They'll pull the same crap they pulled on Creekstone; They'll whistle to their dog and point and the USDA will shut you down and then justify it with some lame excuse that defies any logic at all and that'll be that.
 
Sandhusker" You're not going to take back anything from the packers that they don't want you to as long as they have the USDA in their pockets. Not even going to begin to happen. They'll pull the same crap they pulled on Creekstone; They'll whistle to their dog and point and the USDA will shut you down and then justify it with some lame excuse that defies any logic at all and that'll be that.[/quote said:
Sandhusker, i've said this many times on this site, and i've even ask you without any response more than once. Creekstone falls under the jurisdiction of the USDA. Is R-CALF under the jurisdiction of the USDA? If not, how can they "whistle to their dog" and shut you down? They can't!

On one hand you R-CALF supporters, know and see that government is not going to help you, but on the other hand you support going to Washington D.C. and asking the very arm of the government that you complain about, to save your sinking ship!


Best Regards
Ben Roberts
 

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