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Faster Horses - Hi Mag Mineral???

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ET Doc

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Bear Creek in S.D.
Faster Horses,
How long does your company recommend feeding hi mag mineral after the grass gets green?
In our area, if we are going to see grass tetany, we usually see the first cases about April 10. So far we haven't had any.
We've been feeding the yearling steers hi mag for about 3 weeks. The grass is really coming, especially the crested wheatgrass.
I think what we are feeding is 3v4smg?
I'd like to switch back after we run out of this which should be next week.
Thanks for your help. :) :) :)
 
I don't have any experience with grass tetnay but was wondering if cows are on a good and regular mineral program would it be really needed to feed a High mag mineral?
 
BMR, I was going to tell you that added Magnesium will gentle your wild heifers down...or so I have been told. Lots of stories go around about mineral...it's pretty funny actually.

We don't use Hi Mag mineral. If you are on a tame fast-growing grass it probably would pay to use it. Some people here use it when grazing crested wheat grass in the early spring. If you are going to native pasture, I'd say no, you don't need it. The native doesn't grow fast enough to create a problem. Mostly if you are on a good year-round mineral program you won't see a problem. But there is always the odd thing. Crested mixed with native doesn't seem to be a problem either, or old grass mixed with the new doesn't bother the cows as far as grass tetnany goes.

A young rancher here lost quite a few head last year. What caused it was that he gathered his cows to brand one day, branded, left them in the corral overnight to mother up (I guess that's why) and turned them out on some good crested wheat pasture after they had had nothing to eat for a good day. He sure got grass tetany in that situation. But I feel it could have been avoided.

Hope this helps!

ET Doc, I think you'd be okay to quit now or when you run out of mineral, as you mentioned.. Does the grass seem to have slowed down after its first early burst of growth? It is fast-growing grass that causes the problem. We don't have much of that around here for one reason or another. :wink:

I will double check for you though. Would hate to steer you wrong.
 
You guys have different experiences with tetany than we do around here, it would seem to me. We must either have stronger grass or something, but we can have and do have grass tetany on native pastures. I lost a cow last May from it, and have lost others occasionally on native pastures alone. Absolutely no crested at all where they were. I have been told several times that mag. is needed to be consumed every day or it won't do them any good. It does not hold as a residual in their systems. And I believe that too. Another thing is that I have never heard of an animal that is not milking having troubles with this either. Such as a steer. What I am talking about is probably actually milk fever anyway, but it amounts to the same thing.

I don't remember what the level of mag. should be for warding off tetany, but most minerals won't even touch it unless they are high mag. Feeding it in the cake is about the only sure way to know they are consuming mag. We have a neighbor that only feeds it in barrel's and he loses a cow or so every year to tetany. I have lost them occasionally on nice sunny days, and not during a period of stress.

Another thing is to be sure not to trail a cow that may have tetany, as that is a sure way to kill her. I've found out the hard way. Don't stress them if at all possible. We try to feed it from the time grass gets to growing good, to as late as mid-May.

Just my observations. May be different in other areas.
 
One last thing I forgot to mention, is that leaving or having old dormant grass in your pastures sure can eliminate problems with tetany too. Drought does not help this problem, when short pastures start to green up in the spring. The dry fiber of dormant grass is sure a help.
 
Well, Tap, you say you don't give your cows 4 and over any mineral. I would bet if you did, you wouldn't see the grass tetnany problem.

I'm telling you true, none of our customers see it on native range and very seldom on crested. Our grass is much like yours. We don't sell much Hi-Mag mineral; but we do sell some to folks grazing a lot of crested wheat. Cattle that are used to mineral eat it pretty consistently and the ones on a year-round program don't have many problems. Some of our formulas work better consumption-wise during the spring than others, so that is what we recommend using.

I hope you don't take this wrong. Just pointing something out to you that you may not have thought of. There are a lot of benefits to feeding mineral. Good health and fighting off disease is part of the benefits.
 
We have a lot of fescue pastures and if we don't keep a fescue mineral out the cattle will get sore footed and stand in the creeks instead of going out and grazing.

From looking at the tags it seems the main differance is a higher level of mag. Does this mean there is more than just grass tetany to deal with???

I am applying a fertilizer with amg in it to try to help as the soil test shows it is needed and after a few years of this I might not need the special mineral but FH pointed out to me that there was a product that made a great differance in my operation and in as little as 4 days I saw a great differance. I went back to regular mineral to soon last year and had sore footed cattle inlest than a week, changed back and in about 4 days the problem was gone.

I don't know if this is just due to the siol in central Indiana or if the problem is just not recognised elseware.

I started the fescue mineral last week and don't intend to turn the cows onto grass for about 10 more days. That should give them a good start.
 
FH, I never take your thoughts wrong, as I know you are serious about helping folks.

I have thought about the fact that you mentioned, but I could not say for sure whether that would be a fact or not. The one neighbor that I mentioned, (who does feed a good mineral year round, but not Vigortone) is the same one who has yearly problems with tetany. He doesn't like to cake after he gets baby calves on the ground, so he uses the barrels. I don't think all cows probably use the barrels the same, but between that and the mineral, you would think that both would help. He does have a lot of crested that he grazes, and that is probably the main problem. I know what you said about knowing the neighbors business earlier, but I know this operation very very well. He checks everything daily and they are never without. We use the same mineral that he does on our younger cattle.

Even with the cake, I don't think they consume the same amount, but I feel it would be more consistant than mineral or barrel consumption. I wouldn't be without mag in our area after these short grass years especially. And I would have it in front of them for the next month. Like I said, this is just our area I have experience in.
 
I have learned, and I learned it from customers, that adding mag makes products unpalatable. The mag can't help if the cattle don't consume the product. We sell a different blend with Magnesium to keep the cattle eating the mineral.

I know that heating cake takes out some of the vitamins and minerals. Don't know if magnesium would be one of those. There is a well-respected rancher in this area who feeds cake that comes to us for Hi-mag mineral and he gets along fine. But he doesn't have it put in cake. As for the tubs, we sell tubs and we won't put mineral in them because it winds up in layers, not mixed throughout the tub. It is best to feed mineral free-choice beside these products. You need a very low phos mineral if you are going to do that, because there is phos in cake and in the tubs. Again, phos is a limiter and cows won't overeat phos. It is also very bitter.

We have never experienced Grass Tetnany so I am not as familiar with it as I would be if we had dealt with it personally. Of course, I listen to what folks tell me, back it up with our tech services, and try to help others with what I have learned. We did have a customer get winter tetnany who fed only wheat hay to his cows during the winter. The vet thought it was milk fever, only these cows had not calved yet. I did some research and learned about winter tetnany. We got him some high-mag mineral and the cows straighted right up.

Tetnany is caused from a calcium, potassium (I think it is potassium), magneseium inbalance. The grass grows so fast the mag can't keep up and an imbalance occurs in the system. Add the mag back in, and you have balanced the system. Wheat hay is low in mag as well.

Interesting business I am in. Always learning something whether I want to or not. :wink:

But helping others does mean a great deal to me. I have no degree and mineral isn't a miracle cure. But I can help and so can the mineral. Perphaps it is because I really do care because of the 8-year wreck we had before we went on the mineral.

Thanks for the conversation. These discussions keep my mind working. (As good as an old mind can work, anyway!) :wink:

Oh, to be young again. :p
 
ET Doc said:
Faster Horses,
How long does your company recommend feeding hi mag mineral after the grass gets green?
In our area, if we are going to see grass tetany, we usually see the first cases about April 10. So far we haven't had any.
We've been feeding the yearling steers hi mag for about 3 weeks. The grass is really coming, especially the crested wheatgrass.
I think what we are feeding is 3v4smg?
I'd like to switch back after we run out of this which should be next week.
Thanks for your help. :) :) :)
Click to expand...

I didn't know steers could get grass tetany. Always thought it was a heavy with calf or one milking.
 
Grass tetany is not always caused by low magnesium, but many times a high potassium ties up the available magnesium. The prevention is the same though, feed more magnesium.

We have never had actual grass tetany here, but winter tetany caused by high potassium feeds.

Milk fever is a mineral imbalance so looks the same and is treated the same as grass tetany.

While I believe minerals are very important in a cow's diet, proper nutrition will supply most of them. Things like magnesium are needed in very small amounts, things like calcium and phos are needed in bigger doses and 2 ounces of mineral can't supply enough. If 2 bitter ingredients like phos and magnesium are in a mineral chances are the cows won't eat much at all.
 
Why can't steers get grass tetnany? It is a calcium, magnesium, potassium imbalance. Of course they can get it. When you find a yearling with grass tetnany they are usually dead and you don't know what killed them.

Milk fever and grass tetnany are two different things. The symptoms might be siimilar but the cause is different.

ET Doc, I checked and it is advisable since you have had problems in the past, to stay on the mag mineral until they back off of it or until mid-May. If you have been on the Vigortone program for at least a year, you should see a big difference in the incidence of grasss tetnany. A year round mineral program does make a big difference. We have a track record to prove it.

Good Luck!!
 
Faster horses said:
Why can't steers get grass tetnany? It is a calcium, magnesium, potassium imbalance. Of course they can get it. When you find a yearling with grass tetnany they are usually dead and you don't know what killed them.

Milk fever and grass tetnany are two different things. The symptoms might be siimilar but the cause is different.

ET Doc, I checked and it is advisable since you have had problems in the past, to stay on the mag mineral until they back off of it or until mid-May. If you have been on the Vigortone program for at least a year, you should see a big difference in the incidence of grasss tetnany. A year round mineral program does make a big difference. We have a track record to prove it.

Good Luck!!
Click to expand...

Better check again, the risk is very low. They say to graze high risk pastures with steers or dry cows first.
 
If you don't believe me call your vet!!! The chance is very low for a dry cow or yearling to get grass tetany. I rest my case!
 
When you find a yearling with grass tetnany they are usually dead and you don't know what killed them.
Click to expand...


Did you ever think of weeds, like death chemist and others? You will find cattle dead from these also. Esp. if you have a spring snow storm that covers the grass, they reach down through the snow for grass and can't see what they are getting. Mostly cows will leave the bad weeds alone if they have other pickings.
 
FH, I suppose what I am talking about is milk fever, but everyone around here calls it grass tetany.

I really have not heard of a non-milking animal dieing from either one.

Sad day here for me. My pet two year old had a calf, and threw her calf bed out with it. She was traveling, so I tried to get her a short distance to where it would be easier to sew her up. She got to bucking and kicking and not liking her womb slapping her, and it fell out so far that she internally bled to death. I sewed her up, but I was sure she was going to die anyway. So goes it. :(
 
I was always told that only lactating cows can get real grass tetney as they use up the mag, while producing milk. That is why bulls and yearlings don't get it.

I think some are mixing up what it is. Grass tetney is a lack of mag in the grass when it grows too fast. It can't take the mag in as fast and therefore the cows who eat it and need more mag, will get tetney.

Milk fever is a different story , as I understand it. JMHO
 

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