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Angus Cattle Shower

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This spring my brother and I will be buying a bull for our +/- 30 head. Dad is selling out most of his, he wants to get bigger into the grain, and i want to get bigger into cattle. My question is, for a herd of primarily black angus cows and heifers with a shorthorn and two angus hereford cross cows, what breed of bull would you use? I was thinking of a Shorthorn or hereford bull, you can't go wrong with a good black baldie calf, and there is a couple good shorthorn breeders over here that have offered to give me a hand. Or would you cross a british with a european breed? which ones? why? and what are your reasons?
 
You have to define your goals. Are you going to keep your own replacements or buy them? Do you want maternal genetics or terminal genetics? Maternally, Hereford would be great but you still have to buy replacements with a small herd or pretty soon you will be crossing F1's with a hereford bull. Same with the shorthorn. Crossing hereford might give you an opportunity to build a terminal mother or market your hfrs. a little easier. If you want weight I like Charlois. If you want to stay black go Simmental.
 
i want to keep the good replacements, not all, just the good ones. If they don't make the cut, they'll be sold with the steers. In the past we have had trouble with simmental bulls on heifers and younger cows, are there some bloodlines to look into or stay away from? And i'm sure I'l bring in some replacements too. What would you breed the f1's to? assuming they are 1/2 hereford, simmental, charolaid or shorthorn, and 1/2 angus?
 
I'd go Hereford or Shorthorn-there are some good SH bulls over your way. Work on building mamma cows the steers will take care of themselves-the opposite doesn't work quite as well.
 
Do you know the Possbergs? (Star P shorthorns) or the mollenbecks ( Bell M farms)? I have a star p three year old cow, no regrets with her.
 
I've heard of them but never been out there. they are out of rosthern i believe, and I'm by humboldt. If I wanted to keep everything angus there's quite a few angus guys around here, but not so much hereford
 
Angus Cattle Shower said:
i want to keep the good replacements, not all, just the good ones. If they don't make the cut, they'll be sold with the steers. In the past we have had trouble with simmental bulls on heifers and younger cows, are there some bloodlines to look into or stay away from? And i'm sure I'l bring in some replacements too. What would you breed the f1's to? assuming they are 1/2 hereford, simmental, charolaid or shorthorn, and 1/2 angus?
Click to expand...

It sounds like you want to raise some of your own heifers, I would stick with F1 (angusxhereford). it is awful hard to have a maternal herd and a terminal herd at the same time. To have both takes a really good AI program or a lot of cows.[/quote]
 
We really like the angus Hereford cross. It is what the majority of our commercial calves are. Just need to figure out the weaknesses with what you have already and find a bull to improve on them.
 
aside from horns is there a difference in horned and polled herefords? would the angus gene keep them polled? I know what you mean by a maternal herd, but whats a termnal herd?
 
We get very few horns of horned bulls and polled cows-this old guy wiresaws them off in the spring-we maybe get 1-2% so it doesn't even play me out-not like doing a hundred or so while weighing calves at a neighbors.
 
Angus Cattle Shower said:
aside from horns is there a difference in horned and polled herefords? would the angus gene keep them polled? I know what you mean by a maternal herd, but whats a termnal herd?
Click to expand...

A terminal herd is a herd that is selected for growth traits. The calves will perform extremely well as far as conversion and gainability but lack a lot of traits it takes to be a sound replacement female. Generally they are higher birth weight bigger framed cattle. Which is why they are usually only crossed on mature cows I probably haven't explained it very well, maybe someone here will be able to give you a better answer.
 
flyingS said:
Angus Cattle Shower said:
aside from horns is there a difference in horned and polled herefords? would the angus gene keep them polled? I know what you mean by a maternal herd, but whats a termnal herd?
Click to expand...

A terminal herd is a herd that is selected for growth traits. The calves will perform extremely well as far as conversion and gainability but lack a lot of traits it takes to be a sound replacement female. Generally they are higher birth weight bigger framed cattle. Which is why they are usually only crossed on mature cows I probably haven't explained it very well, maybe someone here will be able to give you a better answer.
Click to expand...

So a terminal herd is a herd focused on growth for a feeder market? Then in that case I'm gonna have to stick with maternal until I have a solid herd base, correct?
 
I'd just stick with it all the way-good maternal type cows produce perffectly acceptable feeder steers. You start delecting for too much growth you'll have to start robbing grain from Dad to keep your cowherd going-if he's cool with it any good exotic bull will work on those bal;die or roan cows. If you back your calving up till grass time you might be have a lower input terminal program.
 
You got it, same basic animal just a couple different genes.

Angus x Hereford is a super cross. There is a reason its still being used.

Personally I like Shorthorn x. They are as good as any Hereford x out there. Depends what you want out of your cows, and what you like. Either would work well if you are wanting to keep replacements.

You could get as much Maternal with European as you can with English breeds. Gelbveih and Simm x are some to consider as far as that goes. Like I said, it all depends on what you like.

We've dealt with Star P farms. Bought a bull off them a couple years ago and got some darn good replacement heifers off him. Angus x and Hereford x too. And some good steers. Muri's are not too far away from us, and I like the look of their cattle too.
 
flyingS said:
Angus Cattle Shower said:
aside from horns is there a difference in horned and polled herefords? would the angus gene keep them polled? I know what you mean by a maternal herd, but whats a termnal herd?
Click to expand...

A terminal herd is a herd that is selected for growth traits. The calves will perform extremely well as far as conversion and gainability but lack a lot of traits it takes to be a sound replacement female. Generally they are higher birth weight bigger framed cattle. Which is why they are usually only crossed on mature cows I probably haven't explained it very well, maybe someone here will be able to give you a better answer.
Click to expand...

fS, I think you explained it well. Here are some of my thoughts. As some else here said, it's tough to beat AngusxHereford. When you get right down to it, everyone likes a baldy cow. Hardy, good maternal and easy keepers. The best of both worlds.

IMO, maximum heterosis for calf performance is achieved with a 3-way terminal cross such as the AngusxHereford cross cow bred to Char, Limo, Gelbieh, etc. Adding another breed beyond 3 is going backwards with less uniformity and decreased performance. Essentially creating a bovine mongrel.

Heterosis is the only "free lunch" in the cattle business and is achieved in a cow herd by keeping brood cows from the two way cross. Breeding this 2-way cross to a third breed results in maximum hybrid vigor for the ultimate goal. Which is delivering maximum pounds of consistent uniform quality for minimal cost at the sale barn. We all win when this quality follows through the feedlot to the processor and ultimately to the consumer's dinner table. The consumer is our ultimate customer. As producers, we want to deliver a consistent quality product so the consumer will keep coming back for more. At least that's the way it should work, IMO! :wink:
 
We diod that cross for years 1/2 blood exotic cows aren't bad if you use the right bulls.we kept alot of F1 Chars were good cows but in35 years never kept any higher% ones. Right now I can sell females for more than steers so making it all about the mamma cows.
 
Keep it simple if you can. Trying to build a uniform herd and improve quality along with trying to increase herd numbers is a tough job. I know, I have been there. A two breed criss cross might work well for you. While it looks like the trend is starting to turn, at the present time I would try to stay black.

About 30 years ago my brother and I tried to start a three way cross program. We had about 300 cows and several smaller pastures. It took up a lot of time sorting, and good record keeping. Then we had the opportunity to get a larger pasture that would run 150 to 170 cows. The cross program didn't fit in to well anymore.

Cross breeding has done some wonderful things, but I wouldn't put all of my attention on it. The different breeds of cattle was developed because it was seen that a mongrolized herd didnt fit all needs.
 

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