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Feed Question

R

Richard Doolittle

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
1,366
Location
Western SD
Hey all. I've been browsing this forum ever since Jody Brown had it so I am pretty familiar with the regular posters. I know you are a friendly bunch and you can skip the welcome messages if you want to and you won't hurt my feelings!!

I'll start off with a question because I'd like some opinions. I run about 70 cows and work in town. They are due to start calving any day. I buy most of my feed and with our drought conditions last year, had to get a little creative. I have alfalfa hay, oat hay, and corn silage. The hay is in round bales and I don't really want to grind the hay and mix it with the silage. The silage is from 2005, but in a bag so condition should be good. My question is this: How heavy can I go on the silage in the feed ration? I would like to feed straight silage until it is gone and then switch to hay, but people tell me that I should feed some of both every day. As a little more information, up until last Saturday they were running on corn, wheat, and sunflower stubble fields all winter and their condition is really good. I've been rolling out oat hay bales this week and plan to set up the feed bunks to start feeding silage this weekend. I'd appreciate opinions from the wide knowledge base here. Thanks.

P.S. Faster Horses--Is it important to put mineral out for your cows?? :lol:
 
Richard Doolittle said:
P.S. Faster Horses--Is it important to put mineral out for your cows?? :lol:
Click to expand...

That should be enough to bring FH out of hiding :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Welcome anyway, Dr. Doolittle!

But I fear that your very first post has struck us in our most vulnerable and pained area!

For, our beloved Faster Horses has apparently decided to play games with us and has left, leaving us to wonder of her where-abouts!

But here is hardly the place to speak any further of our loss and woe. If you would learn more, go to Coffee Shop and read "The cats are away . . ."

And yes, cows need mineral.
 
we feed silage here to yearlings on wheat and grass and sometimes in the pens here
i don't know the exact mix
but they mix chopped corn and cotton burrs
and feed what the cattle will eat in a day
they don't mix any hay with it
i can find out more about that mix if you want me to

and by the way fh
they put out white salt and no miniral on that ranch
and i doctor alot of sick cattle up there
on the other ranches we put out salt and miniral and i don't doctor as many of those cattle
imagine that
until later
jerry
 
I've put my cows on an All you can eat silage diet before and set out some poor hay to go with it free choice.I know people who feed sweet corn silage to cows and they just unload semi loads in the pasture in smaller piles the trailer is a live bottom.And you won't regret feeding mineral.
 
You should have ALL your feed tested, including the water, and then have someone reputable (NOT a veterinarian) run some rations for you, using the feedstuffs you have.

Get the best damn breeder mineral you can find in front of them, NOW!

Micro nutrients are NOT passed on through the mother's milk to the calf, as once thought. Once that calf hits the ground, he's on his own, and generally mineral deficient for the first several months.
 
I feed as much corn silage as they will clean up in a day and also keep some poorer quality hay (bales) in front of them at all times. Then when the silage runs out, I feed straight hay of a better quality until they go out on pasture.
 
I feed corn silage once per day. Feed em what they can clean up in about 1/2 day. Also feed either a good grass hay or 1st cutting alfalfa/orchard mix hay what they will clean up. Cows stay in good condition, breed back well, don't get sucked down. Always, always have a very good mineral for them. I feed Kent ADE now and in about a month I will switch to Kent's Fescue mineral and feed that all summer since we have a bit of nasty fescue grass we graze. Sorry that you have to work in town......I too am a part timer in town :mad: Wish I could be out here all the time. All the best!
 
Thanks for the replies. I plan to go heavy on the silage because I want to save on hay and the guy I bought the silage from wants it gone this year if possible. I was just wondering if it is necessary for them to have some dry hay along with the silage. No offense loomixguy, but I'm not one to test rations to make sure I come up with the ideal mix. All of the feed I have is good quality and as long as the cows hold their condition and have healthy calves, I'm happy. And the water, it comes out of a hydrant from the well and is the same that I drink so it should be good enough for my girls. I don't have time or money for any frills.

And the mineral comment.........I said that in jest in an effort to bring FH out :lol: I have McNess mineral out free choice.
 
Richard Doolittle said:
Thanks for the replies. I plan to go heavy on the silage because I want to save on hay and the guy I bought the silage from wants it gone this year if possible. I was just wondering if it is necessary for them to have some dry hay along with the silage. No offense loomixguy, but I'm not one to test rations to make sure I come up with the ideal mix. All of the feed I have is good quality and as long as the cows hold their condition and have healthy calves, I'm happy. And the water, it comes out of a hydrant from the well and is the same that I drink so it should be good enough for my girls. I don't have time or money for any frills.

And the mineral comment.........I said that in jest in an effort to bring FH out :lol: I have McNess mineral out free choice.
Click to expand...

Oh your mineral comment should bring her out you NEED VIGORTONE :wink:
 
Testing feed and water are not frills. Water can contain several things, such as molybdenum, which can tie up copper and cause newborn calves to have an immune system that is quite weak.

Whatever floats your boat.

Range cows can be fed way too much distillers, look great, and not breed back worth a hoot, or worse yet, develop polio symptoms.
 
loomixguy, I know distillers can be overfed and the potential polio problem, but I've never heard about it causing rebreeding problems. Can you elaborate? Copper or other mineral imbalance? I admit I don't test feed or water either. I do feed Vigortone! :D :D :D Sulphur can be a big item in both DDG and the drinking water.

I feed a 60/40 cracked corn/DDG to my replacement heifers, background steers, and bulls. Got another pickup load yesterday for $190/ton so I hope it starts raining and gets some green grass growing soon! :shock: :shock: :shock:
 
Short, simplified version is....

If distillers is overfed, (MORE than 7 pounds/head/day), things begin to happen. You are right, John, it can be terribly high in sulpher, so a balancer MUST be fed along with the distillers, one that contains a vitamin/mineral package AND plenty of thiamine, to ward off the polio symptoms. Regular dry mineral may work for a while, but it will catch up with you in time. Good job, John! :D

The rebreeding works like this. There are basically two types of bugs in the rumen. Those which digest starch, and those that digest fiber. If an over amount of corn/distillers is fed (I think more than 3 pounds is too much, myself), the bugs that digest starches begin to overpopulate. If then the cows are abruptly dumped out on grass, the starch digesting bugs are running wild, and there are precious few fiber digesters in the rumen. It typically takes at least three weeks to get the bug population switched over from starch digesters to fiber digesters. The bulls are typically at work during those 3 weeks, but the internal turmoil inside the cows has her reproductive program all messesd up, to the point that if she DOES conceive, she could be heat cycles late doing so, if she conceives at all.

I had a ranch for a client with 1500 head of mama cows with a 60% conception rate 2 years running. They were more than willing to use my rations I did for them, but did not use LOOMIX. (The owner is a multi-millionaire, and is cheaper than cheap, but that is another story.) The next year, just by dropping the corn they fed from 12 pounds down to 3 pounds, their conception rate went from 60% up to 90%. In 1500 head, that much improvement is quite substantial. For one day, Jesus was not the only one able to walk on water.

Good Luck, John, and be sure to wean them off the corn/distillers before you turn 'em out, OK?
 
I hope I didn't come across offensive loomixguy. You definitely sound like you know what you are talking about.

Regarding the water--the well was just drilled last summer and I did send a sample in to the State. It is safe for human consumption so it should be safe for livestock, right?
 
Well, Rich, for the 30-40 bucks it would cost, I'd send another sample in to see what there was in the water. It can be safe to drink, but still contain elements which can cause tie ups with the minerals your cows need. I know I sound anal about this, but if the information gained from an inexpensive test would save just one cow or calf, the cost of the test is cheap. Plus, I think a guy shuld know just what it is he's dealing with. Just good business.

I always recommend that my clients feed a quality high-copper chelated mineral. On the dry mineral side, I'm partial to ADM's new Moorman's/Mastergain Weather Master mineral. They have done a mighty fine job with it. If you do not have an ADM dealer in your area, remember ABC. Anything But Co-op mineral!

BTW, on the "offensive" scale, your prior post didn't even register on my radar! :lol:


 
Good advice loomix... We feed good ground alfalfla and wheathay mix about 1/2 to corn silage every other day the off day we feed hay and alfalfa... Cow condition is a big thing going into calving especially for breed back... And a salt and mineral... Remember that the grass will be turning soon, so grass tetany is just around the corner, so high mag mineral is a must...
Of coarse fh can give us all better information on that!!
 
I've been adding liquid mag to the LOOMIX troughs since Valentine's Day, and will do so until at LEAST the end of June. Rain has been so spotty here the last few years that if we do get a rain, new grass will pop virtually overnight, so the mag is a cheap form of protection.

And, I was having a brain fart, salt is the most important thing a man can add to the mix. Good water, adequate groceries, and salt is basic.
 
Fella's I've fed DDg for 2 years to stockers . Starting them on 1/2 lb and grass then increasing them up to 4 to 6 or so pounds by the end of 120 day wintering period. No problems. I have experience gains from 1.5lb per head per day up to 3lb per head per day. Speaking of starch, is the starch not converted to alcohol in the fermentaion process making ethanol? I don't see the acidosis in DDG like I do with corn when one calf gets too much feed.
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From Iowa Beef Center Research:

"When dried distillers or corn gluten feed are added to feedlot rations expect performance to be similar or slightly improved due to decreased starch feeding and a potential reduction in acidosis."
 
Red Robin.. Yep, startch in distillers would be at a minimum considering the alcohol is made out of it. I know the gluten actually had a good portion of fiber still in it but I don't know about distillers. I hear people talk about these problems with over feeding distillers but my neighbor feds 25 pounds a day of wet distillers (about 33%), which would be 8.33 pounds if 100% dry and his fertility rate is darn good and never has had any problems with it. .. By darn good I mean 95%+. He doesn't cull too many for being open, more for just getting old or bad bags or whatever.

Most of the nutriotionist I talk to say just try to keep your distillers at 40% or under of your total DM intake and you should be just fine... Just make sure you are feeding the right mineral/balancer with it and you will be okay according to them..
 

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