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feeding

J

jodywy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,113
Location
Cabin Creek, Carlile,Wyoming
I feed because we have deep snow, wondering how place feed that can graze out most the winter. I see cake bin in a lot of country. some say that's all they supplement. others tell me they feed a little hay and cake later in winter when the grass just doesn't have the oomph....other said hay cubes over hay because less waste. but then there cost... be a learning curve to leave snow country..
 
Best to check out the local custom where you settle. We generally can graze most of the winter and use some lick tubs or other sources of protein. This winter we have more snow then the areas to the north of us. We have natural shelter and native grass, many areas aren't as blessed.
 
Jody, I have seen cattle wintered on grass that do well and I have seen cattle wintered on grass that are thin to the point of even being 'poor.' There is a difference. It all depends on the owner of the cattle and how he supplements them. You can be a low-cost producer, but where people get into trouble is being a NO-COST producer. It just won't work. Some get away with it for awhile, until, like one place I know, they had 70% open cows. In some situations cows don't last in the herd very long. One just needs to know the whole story.

A lot depends on when you calve. If you winter 'out' those producers usually calve later.

We have a customer that is a great stockman. He feeds his own alfalfa hay to his cows. 10# every other day when he has grass to graze. He watches a lot of things. How the manure is stacking; if they are laying down around noon (shows they are getting enough to eat;) whether they are all grazing the same direction (shows they are competing for grass). He OBSERVES his cattle. He does feed them hay when they tell him he needs to. This producer gets 85% bred in the first heat cycle; end of March calves weigh 630# first week of October. He buys no supplement except mineral. In this cold weather he has been feeding 35# grass hay. He doesn't go by the calendar, he goes by what the cows dictate. He said if he were to feed cake, he would feed 5# of wheat midd pellets. He makes sure the cows have all the water they need. Water is so important. I don't understand how people like Kit Pharo say that cattle can winter on hay. I wonder how long those cows stay in the herd. :???: Water is the first required nutrient.

Then we know of a fellow that is strictly grass and cake; his cows always look good. He has great winter protection. So it can be done, but like this winter, it can't be done very cheap.
 
Lots of outfits winter on the range in our country. And like what Faster Horses said, some cattle look plumb bloomy and others as thin as a rail. The folks that I know and have worked for all used a supplement as called for depending on the severity of the winter, how range looked and what the cows told them they needed. One ranch feeds hay every other day or third day. The cows range out on their winter permit but come back onto the home ranch to water. A lot of guys use tubs of protein/mineral as needed. Some have excellent range with high protein grasses and white sage (Grandpa called it "winter fat") and hardly use protein tubs and just feed loose mineral. And some outfits starve the profit right out of their cowherd. To me, the severity of the season and the quality of the range are to biggest factors to a successful winter range and healthy cowherd. A lot of us roll out hay all winter and wish we had a good winter range. But they come up for sale pretty rarely, if ever around here.
 
Faster horses said:
Water is so important. I don't understand how people like Kit Pharo say that cattle can winter on hay. I wonder how long those cows stay in the herd. :???: Water is the first required nutrient.
Click to expand...

Can you explain that? For some reason these lines don't make sense to me this morning. :???:
 
Typo. Brain-O. Here is what I meant to say. "I don't understand how people like Kit Pharo say that cattle can winter on snow."

Glad you caught that. It didn't make any sense when I typed 'hay'.

We lived on the Powder River in Wyoming for a couple of years. Grass and cake. Poor water sources. The son of the owner told us to watch the tails. When the tails fan out, the cattle aren't doing good. What we noticed was when the tails fanned out (the hair on the tail looks as if it has a part and the hair grows away both directions) those cattle weren't getting enough water. Their hair coat was very rough.

As I mentioned, I have seen cattle that graze out, supplemented with cake that look great. Again, it depends on many factors.
 
I see, that makes more sense written that way. With regards to water, snow is a fine substitute for water as long as they have access to loose snow. We always made sure the replacements were watered and had the best of hay because we wanted to be sure to give them every chance to grow out and mature in time for breeding season. We have everything on water this winter for the first time ever, last winter was scary with the weather we had as didn't snow until after freeze up and then it would thaw then freeze all winter making snow hard so I put in a solar trough which I rather like, and the cow seem to as well.
 
I am having to water the bulls ( I'm keeping a couple plus mine ) for a few days as the "Ritchie" fountain I put in back in 1983 froze up Wednesday and I am not going to tear into it until the weather gets a little warmer - - - I have a hydrant and about a 30 gallon tank that I can fill a couple of times a day till we get a break - - - looks like next week will be in the low 40sF and I will check it out then.

I am very pleased that I put in these heaters in 1983 and this is the first heater I have had to replace - - - I did change them all out to the newer style floats and I replaced the rubber seals at the same time. I did add 3" of extra styrofoam insulation to the inside of all of them so they have a total of 4" of insulation and as such the heaters probably don't run much and the other 2 are still working!
 
Q70xeaa.jpg


This trough I put in requires no heat and has not frozen at temps down to -35 so far. Pretty happy with it to this point.
 
George said:
How does it work?
Click to expand...

The trough you see is 36" in diameter double walled. It is sitting on a 36" pipe 20' in the ground. I have a 2" water line close to the bottom of my dugout that connects to the 36" pipe fairly close to the bottom. This allows the water level in the dugout to equalize in the 36" pipe, about 5' below ground level right now.
I have a bilge pump down hole. When the cows approach the trough the motion sensor you see above the panels kicks the pump on and the water comes up in the center of the bowl. When the cows step away the water drains back down through the pump. If the water level gets too high it goes out through the overflow holes around the perimeter and runs down in the void created by the double wall and drops back into the well.

http://www.sundogsolarwind.com/solar-winter-watering-
 
Faster horses said:
How many head can you water in that small an opening?
Click to expand...

We are currently watering 350 head on it. It is 3 feet across so is not really small. Several cattle drink at once so they tend not to fight over it. I think the biggest limiting factor as far as how many can be watered by it when on solar power is electrical capacity. I rigged this up with about 250 head in mind so I'm finding the batteries aren't keeping up real well now that the days are so short and cold. I have everything I need in my possession to double the electrical capacity except the will to go out and assemble it (it's -35 today). To offset this difficulty I have been topping the batteries up with a smart charger and a little Honda Whisper 2000 generator as required. Looks like it's going to be around freezing temp on Sunday so that may be my day to fiddle with it.
 
"wintering out' can vary widely, with us. Go 12 miles south, if you don't overstock you could get in your car and head to mexico. Go 8 miles west, and they'd starve to death. Go to mussellshell river breaks and very last thing you want to do is cake 'em. Leave them alone and they'll scatter from hell to breakfast into little bunches and do alright. If you're gonna concentrate them, about gotta go to full feed
 
I get grief from my son as I like to feed with the backhoe better than the skidsteer. I bought 35 grass bales that are net wrapped ( I hate net wrap but 2,200# good bales at $25.00 @ and only about 12 miles away are hard to turn down )

If I feed with the skidsteer I have to turn the bale on end and unwrap then turn back on their sides and put in the feeder as I cannot open the door unless the lift is all the way down. It is also easier to get in and out of the backhoe at 68 years old.

I gave about $20.00 for a broken spear at an auction and rebuilt it to my needs - - - on the backhoe I hold the bale about 8" off the ground and unwrap and get back in and go feed. I am up higher and can see better and with 4X4 and the weight of the hoe on the rear I can go about any where I want.

If they had been wrapped with grass string I would probably use whatever was the closest.



I don't know what this was supposed to fit but I welded a plate to the underside of the bucket for a 3/4" bolt to go thru and the chain holds the weight and the angle iron brackets keep it straight - - - I have been using it for probably 10 years now - - - when I got it the spear was broken off right where the brace ends.



Easy to reach the top bales.



 
I've used a Backhoe for unloading hay a few years was a pretty efficient machine. Either a backhoe or a excavator is next on my list of toys.
 
Right now there are several good deals out there. We sold the old excavator and bought a 2007 JD 200C lc - - - 7,000 hours good AC and quiet cab - - - good tight machine with a 2 yd 4' bucket - - - found a 30" bucket in Wisconsin for fence row work. With the 2 yd bucket I can sure load a tri axel truck quickly!



I keep thinking of upgrading the backhoe to one with AC and a quieter cab. The 310 C I have has close to 13,000 hours on it but at 68 years old I am not sure I want to spend the money - - - if I find a deal as good as on the excavator I will trade but do not have to jump.
 
The first round bales we bought was back in 1992. We didn't have any experience with them before that. Mr FH unloaded them with our JD backhoe. We fed them with a bale spear. Pretty simple. Of course from there on it got more complicated. Bale processor; bale buncher....big tractor with loader......all the fun things........ :wink:

I do have to say with the bale processor we put a scale under it and we knew just how much hay we were feeding. Amazing how the hay weights differ. It cost $2500 for that scale and I figured 50 ton of hay at $50/ton would pay for it. It paid for itself the first hay we got in.....they said the hay weight was 1200-1300#; our scale said 900# and Mr. FH didn't think they were 1200# bales when he was unloading them. Took a load to town to weigh and sure enough 900#. Huge difference. We got the seller to adjust the price......more than paid for the scale.
 

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