jojo wrote;
Everyone else may know this already, but flounder seems to be a regular poster on a vegetarian site.
http://www.vegsource.com/talk/madcow/index.html
===============
nice try there jojo, but will not work. others have tried to discredit me with the vegsource site i document long studies at, but did not work for them either (well, at least for the ones that can see beyond there nose).
you see, i am a meat eater, i am a old hunter that cant hunt anymore, and i am for the honest rancher. matter of fact i had a steak this week, don't eat them much anymore in TEXAS, due to our BSE testing protocol, but you see, i have been so exposed via the surgical arena, a few more prions via a chunk of meat will not matter, i.e. route, source and titre of infectivity, and what i believe in i.e. accumulation. now, from there to threshold of clinical disease and the cause there, well, thats another story. i have wasted 8 years studying this agent and all the politics that go with it. YOU just came aboard here at the end of april 2006, with a total of about 6 posts, and you probably cannot even spell bovine spongiform encephalopathy and or Heidenhain Variant Creutzfeldt Jakob disease, (i wish to god i never heard of them and or could spell them), and the first thing you do is start to try and discredit me with this posting of yours :lol2: thanks for the advertisement. however, there are other places i have over the years posted 'the rest of the story' to ;
CJD WATCH MESSAGE BOARD
http://disc.server.com/Indices/167318.html
HARVARD BRAIN TALK CJD
http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=117
OLD BOARD HARVARD CJD
http://neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Creutzfeldt+Jakobs&number=24
MADDEER RESEARCH TSS ARCHIVE
http://www.maddeer.org/research.htm
CWD
http://p079.ezboard.com/fwolftracksproductionsfrm2
http://www.ngpc.state.ne.us/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=12
http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=53
CATTLE RANCHERS
http://ranchers.net/forum/forum-5.html
THEY DELETED A GREAT DEAL OF MY POSTING AND THEN STARTED LETTING ME POST HERE
(they shot the messenger for a while;-)
http://cattletoday.com/forum/forum-11.html
meanwhile, back at the ranch with larry, curly, and mo at USDA ET AL ON BSE ALABAMA STYLE
http://www.prwatch.org/node/4624
TSS peer review submissions and docket submission on human and animal TSE
Send Post-Publication Peer Review to journal:
Re: RE-Monitoring the occurrence of emerging forms of Creutzfeldt-Jakob
disease in the United States
Email Terry S. Singeltary:
[email protected]
I lost my mother to hvCJD (Heidenhain Variant CJD). I would like to
comment on the CDC's attempts to monitor the occurrence of emerging
forms of CJD. Asante, Collinge et al [1] have reported that BSE
transmission to the 129-methionine genotype can lead to an alternate
phenotype that is indistinguishable from type 2 PrPSc, the commonest
sporadic CJD. However, CJD and all human TSEs are not reportable
nationally. CJD and all human TSEs must be made reportable in every
state and internationally. I hope that the CDC does not continue to
expect us to still believe that the 85%+ of all CJD cases which are
sporadic are all spontaneous, without route/source. We have many TSEs in
the USA in both animal and man. CWD in deer/elk is spreading rapidly and
CWD does transmit to mink, ferret, cattle, and squirrel monkey by
intracerebral inoculation. With the known incubation periods in other
TSEs, oral transmission studies of CWD may take much longer. Every
victim/family of CJD/TSEs should be asked about route and source of this
agent. To prolong this will only spread the agent and needlessly expose
others. In light of the findings of Asante and Collinge et al, there
should be drastic measures to safeguard the medical and surgical arena
from sporadic CJDs and all human TSEs. I only ponder how many sporadic
CJDs in the USA are type 2 PrPSc?
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/eletters/60/2/176#535
LANCET INFECTIOUS DISEASE JOURNAL
Volume 3, Number 8 01 August 2003
Newsdesk
Tracking spongiform encephalopathies in North America
Xavier Bosch
My name is Terry S Singeltary Sr, and I live in Bacliff, Texas. I lost
my mom to hvCJD (Heidenhain variant CJD) and have been searching for
answers ever since. What I have found is that we have not been told the
truth. CWD in deer and elk is a small portion of a much bigger problem.
49-year-old Singeltary is one of a number of people who have remained
largely unsatisfied after being told that a close relative died from a
rapidly progressive dementia compatible with spontaneous
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD). So he decided to gather hundreds of
documents on transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSE) and
realised that if Britons could get variant CJD from bovine spongiform
encephalopathy (BSE), Americans might get a similar disorder from
chronic wasting disease (CWD)the relative of mad cow disease seen among
deer and elk in the USA. Although his feverish search did not lead him
to the smoking gun linking CWD to a similar disease in North American
people, it did uncover a largely disappointing situation.
Singeltary was greatly demoralised at the few attempts to monitor the
occurrence of CJD and CWD in the USA. Only a few states have made CJD
reportable. Human and animal TSEs should be reportable nationwide and
internationally, he complained in a letter to the Journal of the
American Medical Association (JAMA 2003; 285: 733). I hope that the CDC
does not continue to expect us to still believe that the 85% plus of all
CJD cases which are sporadic are all spontaneous, without route or source.
Until recently, CWD was thought to be confined to the wild in a small
region in Colorado. But since early 2002, it has been reported in other
areas, including Wisconsin, South Dakota, and the Canadian province of
Saskatchewan. Indeed, the occurrence of CWD in states that were not
endemic previously increased concern about a widespread outbreak and
possible transmission to people and cattle.
To date, experimental studies have proven that the CWD agent can be
transmitted to cattle by intracerebral inoculation and that it can cross
the mucous membranes of the digestive tract to initiate infection in
lymphoid tissue before invasion of the central nervous system. Yet the
plausibility of CWD spreading to people has remained elusive.
Part of the problem seems to stem from the US surveillance system. CJD
is only reported in those areas known to be endemic foci of CWD.
Moreover, US authorities have been criticised for not having performed
enough prionic tests in farm deer and elk.
Although in November last year the US Food and Drug Administration
issued a directive to state public-health and agriculture officials
prohibiting material from CWD-positive animals from being used as an
ingredient in feed for any animal species, epidemiological control and
research in the USA has been quite different from the situation in the
UK and Europe regarding BSE.
Getting data on TSEs in the USA from the government is like pulling
teeth, Singeltary argues. You get it when they want you to have it,
and only what they want you to have.
Norman Foster, director of the Cognitive Disorders Clinic at the
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor, MI, USA), says that current
surveillance of prion disease in people in the USA is inadequate to
detect whether CWD is occurring in human beings; adding that, the
cases that we know about are reassuring, because they do not suggest the
appearance of a new variant of CJD in the USA or atypical features in
patients that might be exposed to CWD. However, until we establish a
system that identifies and analyses a high proportion of suspected prion
disease cases we will not know for sure. The USA should develop a
system modelled on that established in the UK, he points out.
Ali Samii, a neurologist at Seattle VA Medical Center who recently
reported the cases of three hunterstwo of whom were friendswho died
from pathologically confirmed CJD, says that at present there are
insufficient data to claim transmission of CWD into humans; adding that
[only] by asking [the questions of venison consumption and deer/elk
hunting] in every case can we collect suspect cases and look into the
plausibility of transmission further. Samii argues that by making both
doctors and hunters more aware of the possibility of prions spreading
through eating venison, doctors treating hunters with dementia can
consider a possible prion disease, and doctors treating CJD patients
will know to ask whether they ate venison.
CDC spokesman Ermias Belay says that the CDC will not be investigating
the [Samii] cases because there is no evidence that the men ate
CWD-infected meat. He notes that although the likelihood of CWD
jumping the species barrier to infect humans cannot be ruled out 100%
and that [we] cannot be 100% sure that CWD does not exist in humans&
the data seeking evidence of CWD transmission to humans have been very
limited.
http://infection.thelancet.com/journal/journal.isa
he complained in a letter to the Journal of the American Medical
Association (JAMA 2003; 285: 733). I hope that the CDC does not
continue to expect us to still believe that the 85% plus of all CJD
cases which are sporadic are all spontaneous, without route or source.<<<
actually, that quote was from a more recent article in the Journal of
Neurology (see below), not the JAMA article...
Full Text
Diagnosis and Reporting of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease
Singeltary, Sr et al. JAMA.2001; 285: 733-734.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/285/6/733?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=dignosing+and+reporting+creutzfeldt+jakob+disease&searchid=1048865596978_1528&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=jama
BRITISH MEDICAL JOURNAL
SOMETHING TO CHEW ON
BMJ
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/319/7220/1312/b#EL2
BMJ
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/320/7226/8/b#EL1
THE PATHOLOGICAL PROTEIN
BY Philip Yam
Yam Philip Yam News Editor Scientific American www.sciam.com
http://www.thepathologicalprotein.com/
''Answering critics like Terry Singeltary, who feels that the US
undercounts CJD, Schonberger _conceded_ that the current
surveillance system has errors but stated that most of the errors
will be confined to the older population''....
snip...
The Pathological Protein: Mad Cow, Chronic Wasting, and Other Deadly Prion
Diseases, Philip Yam
Philip Yam
News Editor
Scientific American
www.sciam.com
forgot to add this url;
http://www.thepathologicalprotein.com/
INTRODUCTION
http://www.thepathologicalprotein.com/_wsn/page3.html
IN light of Asante/Collinge et al findings that BSE transmission to the
129-methionine genotype can lead to an alternate phenotype that is
indistinguishable from type 2 PrPSc, the commonest _sporadic_ CJD;
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: re-BSE prions propagate as
either variant CJD-like or sporadic CJD Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 10:23:43
-0000 From: "Asante, Emmanuel A" To:
"'
[email protected]'"
Dear Terry,
I have been asked by Professor Collinge to respond to your request. I am
a Senior Scientist in the MRC Prion Unit and the lead author on the
paper. I have attached a pdf copy of the paper for your attention. Thank
you for your interest in the paper.
In respect of your first question, the simple answer is, yes. As you
will find in the paper, we have managed to associate the alternate
phenotype to type 2 PrPSc, the commonest sporadic CJD.
It is too early to be able to claim any further sub-classification in
respect of Heidenhain variant CJD or Vicky Rimmer's version. It will
take further studies, which are on-going, to establish if there are
sub-types to our initial finding which we are now reporting. The main
point of the paper is that, as well as leading to the expected new
variant CJD phenotype, BSE transmission to the 129-methionine genotype
can lead to an alternate phenotype which is indistinguishable from type
2 PrPSc.
I hope reading the paper will enlighten you more on the subject. If I
can be of any further assistance please to not hesitate to ask. Best wishes.
Emmanuel Asante
<> ____________________________________
Dr. Emmanuel A Asante MRC Prion Unit & Neurogenetics Dept. Imperial
College School of Medicine (St. Mary's) Norfolk Place, LONDON W2 1PG
Tel: +44 (0)20 7594 3794 Fax: +44 (0)20 7706 3272 email:
[email protected]. (until 9/12/02)
New e-mail:
[email protected]. (active from now)
____________________________________
snip...
full text ;
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/03/slides/3923s1_OPH.htm
AND the new findings of BASE in cattle in Italy of Identification of a
second bovine amyloidotic spongiform encephalopathy: Molecular
similarities with sporadic
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0305777101v1
Adaptation of the bovine spongiform encephalopathy agent to primates
and comparison with Creutzfeldt- Jakob disease: Implications for
human health
THE findings from Corinne Ida Lasmézas*, [dagger] , Jean-Guy Fournier*,
Virginie Nouvel*,
Hermann Boe*, Domíníque Marcé*, François Lamoury*, Nicolas Kopp [Dagger
] , Jean-Jacques Hauw§, James Ironside¶, Moira Bruce [||] , Dominique
Dormont*, and Jean-Philippe Deslys* et al, that The agent responsible
for French iatrogenic growth hormone-linked CJD taken as a control is
very different from vCJD but is similar to that found in one case of
sporadic CJD and one sheep scrapie isolate;
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/041490898v1
Characterization of two distinct prion strains
derived from bovine spongiform encephalopathy
transmissions to inbred mice
http://vir.sgmjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/8/2471
ALL animals for human/animal consumption must be tested for TSE.
ALL human TSEs must be made reportable Nationally and Internationally, OF ALL AGES...TSS
Health Business
Questions linger in U.S. CJD cases
By STEVE MITCHELL
Senior Medical Correspondent
WASHINGTON, Oct. 21 (UPI) -- French researchers have ruled out the human form of mad cow disease in a deceased California man, even though they did not conduct the critical test widely regarded as the only way to determine precisely the nature of his disease, United Press International has learned.
The case of Patrick Hicks, who died last November from his condition, has remained murky from the beginning. Dr. Ron Bailey, of Riverside, Calif., the man's neurologist, had suspected the 49-year-old Hicks of having contracted variant Creutzfeldt Jakob disease -- a fatal, brain-wasting illness humans can contract from eating beef products contaminated with the mad cow pathogen -- and both he and the family wanted an autopsy conducted to determine if Hicks had succumbed to the disorder.
Bailey became concerned that Hicks might have contracted vCJD because he initially had exhibited psychiatric symptoms, his illness appears to have lasted for more than one year and he showed normal brain-wave patterns via EEGs until the late stages -- all consistent with the disease. In addition, Hicks's relatively young age raised concerns, because nearly all of the more than 150 cases of vCJD detected worldwide have occurred in people under age 55.
The first hint of oddness began when, according to both Hicks's brother and mother, a team of six doctors, who they suspect were with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, visited Patrick last October while he was still alive and under care at Loma Linda University Medical Center in Loma Linda, Calif.
They said they were asked to leave when the doctors arrived to examine Patrick.
CDC officials would not confirm to UPI whether they had investigated the case, but the agency's policy does require examining all suspected cases of vCJD in anyone under 55.
The family also said Loma Linda refused to released Hicks's medical records to them.
The oddities continued after Hicks's death. Bailey found it almost impossible to get an autopsy conducted on Hicks, the only way to determine conclusively whether he had variant or sporadic CJD -- a version of the disease not related to mad cow. One county coroner's office referred him to another and both refused to conduct the procedure, he said.
Then, the National Prion Disease Pathology Surveillance Center in Cleveland, Ohio -- which was established by the CDC to investigate potential vCJD cases in the United States -- dispatched a mobile autopsy company called 1-800-Autopsy, but the company failed to follow the center's protocol and did not collect frozen sections of brain, which are required for tests to determine whether the disease is vCJD or sCJD. Instead, the autopsy company fixed the entire brain in formalin.
The NPDPSC, however, considers the collection of frozen brain tissue essential to distinguishing vCJD from other forms of CJD.
"Only frozen brain tissue examination definitely confirms or excludes the diagnosis of prion disease and provides the information to identify the type of prion disease," the center's Web site says. Prions are abnormal proteins thought to play a role in causing vCJD and sCJD.
The problem raised enough concern that both Bailey and Hicks's family sought a second opinion.
Experts had told them that animal-injection studies could be done with formalin-fixed tissue, so the family arranged to have a sample of Patrick's brain sent to Dr. Jean Jacques Hauw at the Laboratoire De Neuropathologie at the Groupe Hospitalier Pitie-Salpetriere in Paris, who they thought had agreed to do the studies.
The NPDPSC, however, delayed sending the sample to France for two months after the family's request last March. During the delay, Pierluigi Gambetti, the NPDPSC's director, sent a letter to Hicks's wife.
"We can definitely rule out the diagnosis of variant CJD," the letter stated.
Gambetti's strong conclusion sounded strange to Bailey, because the NPDPSC had not conducted further tests since January, when they had said vCJD was unlikely but that they were unable to rule it out entirely.
After examining the brain tissue, Hauw's team told the family the disease was consistent with sCJD, but to date they have not explained why they did not conduct the animal-injection studies -- the family's reason for sending samples of his brain to France.
Asked the reasons for not following the family's wishes and conducting the animal studies, Hauw told UPI, "I cannot answer your question," citing French regulations that prohibited him from providing information about a specific patient.
He did say, however, that "animal injection is not needed for the routine diagnosis of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease and its various variants, at least in France and in the United Kingdom."
That may be true, but it remains unclear why he accepted the case in the first place, knowing that is what the family wanted.
Moreover, this was not a "routine diagnosis." If Hicks suffered from vCJD, he potentially would have been the first person in the United States to have acquired the disease domestically, a development with significant domestic and international ramifications.
In addition, other experts, such as Dr. Laura Manuelidis, section chief of surgery in the neuropathology department at Yale University, have said the only way to know conclusively whether the disease is due to sCJD or vCJD is through animal-injection studies.
"From what I gather, the result was merely rubber stamped," Bailey told UPI. "I guess we will never really know for sure."
The handling of the case is noteworthy, because the NPDPSC currently is investigating nine potential sCJD cases in Idaho. Experts suspect some of those cases could be vCJD.
Bailey and some patient advocates said they are now skeptical of the NPDPSC's behavior.
"How could my experience with the Hicks case ... and the interaction with NPDPSC not lessen my confidence?" Bailey asked. "I anticipate that all of the Idaho cluster of CJD patients will turn out to have sCJD. I cannot for a minute see their results indicating anything but this. After all, if any patient were to have vCJD, it would have been Patrick Hicks. The results of NPDPSC are not definitive in excluding Hicks as not having vCJD. There certainly will always be that question in my mind."
Terry Singletary, a patient advocate whose mother died of a form of the disease called Heidenhain variant, told UPI he likewise had lost confidence in the NPDPSC.
"I do not trust them," Singletary said. "It's all going to be sporadic. This is the way they want it. They do not want to find out all the routes and sources of this agent."
Both vCJD and mad cow disease are politically sensitive issues because they can impact international trade. Dozens of nations closed their borders to American beef after a lone U.S. cow tested positive for the disease in 2003, resulting in more than $4.7 billion in losses for the industry, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture delayed doing confirmatory tests for seven months on what turned out to be a second case of mad cow.
The NPDPSC did not respond to UPI's phone call requesting comment about the Idaho cases. The CDC referred UPI to Idaho officials.
Of the nine Idaho cases, three people have tested positive for a CJD-like illness, but officials are conducting further tests to determine whether the disease is sCJD. Two others tested negative and four were buried without autopsies.
The cases could just be a statistical fluke, but the state averages about 1.2 sCJD cases per year and has never had more than three in a single year. The disease is rare and generally is thought to occur at the rate of one case per million people.
Several CJD clusters in other states have far exceeded that rate, however. These included:
--southern New Jersey (2000-2003),
--Lehigh, Pa. (1986-90),
--Allentown, Pa. (1989-92),
--Tampa, Fla. (1996-97),
--Oregon (2001-02), and
--Nassau County, N.Y. (1999-2000).
Some of the clusters involved as many as 18 deaths, and ranged from a rate of four to eight cases per million people.
A group of J.P. Morgan analysts issued an advisory last year on the impact the clusters could have on the beef industry, and said that some of the cases could be due to vCJD.
"The existence of clusters raises the question of 'contamination' or 'infection,' and also raises the hypothesis that rather than cases of sCJD, these might have been cases of vCJD," the advisory said. "Given that sCJD occurs randomly in one out of 1 million cases, it is a statistical rarity to find an sCJD cluster -- let alone six."
If that assessment is accurate, another cluster in Idaho would be even more unlikely.
Another possibility is some of the Idaho cases could be due to chronic wasting disease, which is similar to mad cow disease and currently is epidemic among deer and elk in several states, including Idaho's neighbors Wyoming and Utah.
No human cases of CWD have ever been confirmed, but the disease has been shown to infect human cells in a lab dish. Also, a team of researchers led by Jason Bartz of Creighton University in Omaha, Neb., report in the November issue of the Journal of Virology they had experimentally transmitted CWD to squirrel monkeys --the first reported transmission of CWD to primates.
If CWD is capable of infecting humans, it is unknown whether the resulting disease would resemble sCJD, vCJD or a novel disorder. If the disease looks like sCJD, cases could be going undetected or misdiagnosed.
--
E-mail:
[email protected]
© Copyright 2005 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved
http://www.upi.com/HealthBusiness/view.php?StoryID=20051019-090103-6576
Questions linger in US CJD cases
Science Daily (press release) - 12 hours ago
... 21 (UPI) -- French researchers have ruled out the human form of mad cow disease in a deceased California man, even though they did not conduct the critical ...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-20051021-21481300-bc-us-cjdcases.xml
Questions linger in US CJD cases
Middle East North Africa Financial Network, Middle East - 9 hours ago
21 (UPI) -- French researchers have ruled out the human form of mad cow disease in a deceased California man, even though they did not conduct the critical ...
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?StoryId=Cq1HNWeidDxmTy2PKy2fZzxm
NOT TO FORGET THIS CLUSTER OF CJD IN TEXAS IN 1997
Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease in Northeast Texas, J.A. Rawlings,*1 K.A.
Hendricks1, O.M. Nuno1, D.A. Brown1, D.A. Evans2, Texas Department of
Health, 1Austin and 2Tyler, Texas
Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease (CJD), a transmissible spongiform
encephalopathy, is caused by prions composed of proteinaceous material
devoid of nucleic acid. CJD occurs sporadically (generally 1
case/1,000,000 population per year) in older patients (average age of
65) and is characterized by rapidly progressive dementia, accompanied by
severe muscle spasms and incoordination. Death usually occurs within 3
to 12 months (average 7 months). CJD activity in Texas, which has a
population of nearly 19 million, appeared to be typical. The statewide
death rate for 1995 and 1996 was just under 1/1,000,000. In April of
1997, the Texas Department of Health became aware of an increased number
of possible CJD cases in a 23-county area of NE Texas with a population
of just over one million. After review of medical and pathology records,
four patients were identified with definite classic CJD and three were
identified with probable CJD. Dates of death for the eight patients were
from April, 1996 through mid-July 1997. The patients were from 46
through 65 years of age; four were male and three were female. A
case-control study to identify risks for CJD in NE Texas has been initiated.
http://www.jifsan.umd.edu/tse/Rawlings.htm
snip......end
like i said there jojo, nice try, but IF you can read beyond the url of vegsource, you will see i have been posting the most up to date, peer review data on human and animal TSE there, and i thank vegsource for allowing me the space to do this in.
you see i have proven my honesty and why i am so vested here
mom dod 12/14/97 confirmed hvCJD. i am a consumer that knows far more than i ever wanted to about your industry and the politics that are so entwined with the health and safety regulations of BSE/TSE, or in short, the industry that regulates them. $$$
GWs BSE MRR policy was nothing more than a legal tool to trade all strains of TSE globally. commodities and futures, to hell with human health. THIS my friend has been proven time and time again. ...
nice try though there jojo :wink:
TSS