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Flounder...I ran across this in a search

Econ101,

You are the one that is not using very good logic and reasoning.

Your description of my flawed reasoning comes from something that I posted after you had accused me of needing to do more research and that I had used flawed logic and reasoning. Please point out my flawed reasoning prior to your comment.

By the way, I think I have had plenty of education and do not need to go to college to learn what you say, and I darn sure don't want to learn it from you.
 
jojo said:
Econ101,

You are the one that is not using very good logic and reasoning.

Your description of my flawed reasoning comes from something that I posted after you had accused me of needing to do more research and that I had used flawed logic and reasoning. Please point out my flawed reasoning prior to your comment.

By the way, I think I have had plenty of education and do not need to go to college to learn what you say, and I darn sure don't want to learn it from you.

Is this the quote:

"I just thought it was interesting that flounder seems to be trying to scare consumers away from beef, while at the same time being aligned with R-Calf, Mike Callicrate, et al. "?

Perhaps you need to think about it on your own.
 
Econ101 said:
jojo said:
Econ101,

You are the one that is not using very good logic and reasoning.

Your description of my flawed reasoning comes from something that I posted after you had accused me of needing to do more research and that I had used flawed logic and reasoning. Please point out my flawed reasoning prior to your comment.

By the way, I think I have had plenty of education and do not need to go to college to learn what you say, and I darn sure don't want to learn it from you.

Is this the quote:

"I just thought it was interesting that flounder seems to be trying to scare consumers away from beef, while at the same time being aligned with R-Calf, Mike Callicrate, et al. "?

Perhaps you need to think about it on your own.


Very observant of you. That is a quote that I had posted previously; however, where in that quote does it say anything about flounder posting on a vegetarian website? That is what you just gave me a lesson about to show me my "flawed logic and reasoning."

Furthermore, the reason that I asked you why flounder would post on a vegetarian website to inform them of his views on BSE was because you were defending him, and I was posing it more as a rhetorical question...do you know what that means or should you go back to college and take a class to learn about it.

If you have not figured this out yet, I am playing your own stupid game with you. Regarding the being finished arguing with you, you are correct arguing with you about logic and reasoning is not worthwhile.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
 
jojo said:
Econ101 said:
jojo said:
Econ101,

You are the one that is not using very good logic and reasoning.

Your description of my flawed reasoning comes from something that I posted after you had accused me of needing to do more research and that I had used flawed logic and reasoning. Please point out my flawed reasoning prior to your comment.

By the way, I think I have had plenty of education and do not need to go to college to learn what you say, and I darn sure don't want to learn it from you.

Is this the quote:

"I just thought it was interesting that flounder seems to be trying to scare consumers away from beef, while at the same time being aligned with R-Calf, Mike Callicrate, et al. "?

Perhaps you need to think about it on your own.


Very observant of you. That is a quote that I had posted previously; however, where in that quote does it say anything about flounder posting on a vegetarian website? That is what you just gave me a lesson about to show me my "flawed logic and reasoning."

Furthermore, the reason that I asked you why flounder would post on a vegetarian website to inform them of his views on BSE was because you were defending him, and I was posing it more as a rhetorical question...do you know what that means or should you go back to college and take a class to learn about it.

If you have not figured this out yet, I am playing your own stupid game with you. Regarding the being finished arguing with you, you are correct arguing with you about logic and reasoning is not worthwhile.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

jojo, if you can't remember what you posted, you could just continue reading the thread.

I would agree with you on one thing:

"Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Perhaps you need to think about it on your own some more.
 
TimH Wrote:

Let's see........ 180,000+ BSE positive animals in the UK, and only less than 160 cases of vCJD worldwide when "less than 1 gram of infective material could transmit the disease".
How many 600lb. "BSE Positive" carcasses were consumed in the UK before they started testing????Or SRM removal??? And still only <160 cases of vCJD confirmed.
If all the rhetoric is true, we should be seeing 10's of thousands of cases of vCJD in the UK. Ain't happenin' there, Slick.

The British Government admitted that there is likely 4300 imminent cases of vCJD waiting to show (based upon MAFF Statistical Forcast Models) and that the numbers could reach epidemic levels in a few decades due to the length of the incubation period. Admittedly, nobody can be sure of this but it is food for thought.

Maybe we should wait for a few decades and see if we get vCJD blooming all over Europe before we rush to make assumptions as to the extent of the potential for vCJD that has possibly been the result of all that UK BSE.

Also, do not forget that the UK shipped out over 300,000 tons of offal over a period of less than 10 years, including those years that marked the begiining of the crisis in the UK and the offal was distributed throughout Europe but more so to FRance and Germany. So we shall see what is what in a few decades. (Incubation periods can be such a pain!!)
 
hey bse-tester,

bse-tester wrote;

(Incubation periods can be such a pain!!)


amen, and what a lot of folks don't understand is the friendly fire from consumption of BSE/TSE tainted products.


have you seen this one BSE-tester;


Re: Predicting susceptibility and incubation time of human-to-human
transmission of vCJD



Subject: Predicting susceptibility and incubation time of human-to-human transmission of vCJD
Date: March 27, 2006 at 6:24 am PST
Lancet Neurology DOI:10.1016/S1474-4422(06)70413-6

Predicting susceptibility and incubation time of human-to-human transmission of vCJD
MT Bishop a, P Hart b, L Aitchison b, HN Baybutt b, C Plinston b, V Thomson b, NL Tuzi b, MW Head a, JW Ironside a, RG Will a and JC Manson b

Summary
Background
Identification of possible transmission of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) via blood transfusion has caused concern over spread of the disease within the human population. We aimed to model iatrogenic spread to enable a comparison of transmission efficiencies of vCJD and bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) and an assessment of the effect of the codon-129 polymorphism on human susceptibility.

Methods
Mice were produced to express human or bovine prion protein (PrP) by direct replacement of the mouse PrP gene. Since the human PrP gene has variation at codon 129, with MM, VV, and MV genotypes, three inbred lines with an identical genetic background were produced to express human PrP with the codon-129 MM, MV, and VV genotypes. Mice were inoculated with BSE or vCJD and assessed for clinical and pathological signs of disease.

Findings
BSE was transmitted to the bovine line but did not transmit to the human lines. By contrast, vCJD was transmitted to all three human lines with different pathological characteristics for each genotype and a gradation of transmission efficiency from MM to MV to VV.

Interpretation
Transmission of BSE to human beings is probably restricted by the presence of a significant species barrier. However, there seems to be a substantially reduced barrier for human-to-human transmission of vCJD. Moreover, all individuals, irrespective of codon-129 genotype, could be susceptible to secondary transmission of vCJD through routes such as blood transfusion. A lengthy preclinical disease is predicted by these models, which may represent a risk for further disease transmission and thus a significant public-health issue.

Affiliations

a. National CJD Surveillance Unit, Bryan Matthews Building, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, UK
b. Institute for Animal Health, Neuropathogenesis Unit, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, UK

Correspondence to: Prof J C Manson, Institute for Animal Health, Neuropathogenesis Unit, Ogston Building, King's Buildings, West Mains Road, Edinburgh EH9 3JF, UK






further into this study;


SNIP...

Discussion

Although the cattle BSE epidemic in the UK has
amounted to more than 180 000 cases since the 1980s,
the extent of the human vCJD epidemic has so far
remained limited with the total number of cases
worldwide currently at 190. One explanation for this
apparent discrepancy is that there exists a significant
species barrier between cattle and human beings, which
limits the susceptibility of the human population to
BSE. The data shown here suggest that this could
indeed be the case since BSE was readily transmissible
to the bovine transgenic mice but not to the human
transgenic mice. However, once BSE has passed
through human beings in the form of vCJD, the
transmissibility of this TSE strain is altered for the
human population.

All the human transgenic lines inoculated with BSE
were negative for TSE transmission, which suggests that
either the human transgenic lines are relatively resistant
to transmission of BSE or the incubation time is longer
than the length of the experiment (approximately
700 days). BSE transmission previously observed by
others, in human transgenic lines overexpressing the
human prion protein, could be due to overexpression of
the PrP gene and may not therefore give a true reflection
of the species barrier between BSE and human
beings.15,25,26 This apparent resistance of human transgenic
mice to BSE could be explained by a large species barrier
and this in turn could explain the low number of vCJD
cases in the human population.

vCJD was transmitted to all three human lines with
different pathological characteristics for each genotype,
and a gradation of transmission efficiency from MM to
MV to VV. The greater transmission efficiency in HuMM
mice suggests that homozygosity for methionine at
codon 129 leads to earlier onset of TSE-related
pathological features and clinical disease than for the
other two genotypes. The differences in PrPSc deposition
in the HuMM and HuMV lines suggest that the codon-
129 polymorphism in human beings is likely to affect
the distribution of PrPSc deposition in the brain.
Moreover, the similar numbers that scored positive for
PrP deposition in each of the MM and MV groups (11/15
and 11/13 respectively) suggest that the two genotypes
might be equally susceptible to vCJD, but with different
incubation periods. Titration experiments are needed to
fully compare the susceptibility of each line. The single
HuVV mouse positive for PrPSc shows that VV
individuals may be susceptible to vCJD with very long
incubation times, including a lengthy subclinical phase.
Transmission studies from all three genotype mice are
now underway to examine the infectious nature of the
disease and determine any alterations in the strain
characteristics on passage through human transgenic
mice. By contrast with published data suggesting that
VV individuals cannot propagate the vCJD biochemical
phenotype,15 the data presented here suggest that the

PrPSc type will remain a useful diagnostic feature of
secondary vCJD infection irrespective of codon-129
genotype, as has been observed for the two extant cases
of transfusion-associated vCJD infection. 5,27

Transmission of vCJD to the three lines of human
transgenic mice indicates that the human population
could be at significantly heightened risk of developing
disease after iatrogenic exposure to vCJD. Secondary
transmission of vCJD has partly removed the cattle-to-
human species barrier and has resulted in an agent that
can be transmitted from human to human with relative
efficiency. Transmission studies in cynomolgus macaques
provide further evidence for this agent adaptation as they
show reduction in incubation times after serial passage
of BSE.28 Our BSE inoculation at 10-1 dilution was
compared with vCJD inoculation at 10-2 because the latter
inoculum was found to be toxic to the mice at 10-1. Use of
a higher dose ofvCJD inoculum would have maintained
or increased the transmission efficiency of vCJD and
enhanced the current findings.

Our findings raise concerns relevant to the possibility
of secondary transmission of vCJD through blood
transfusion, fractionated blood products, or contaminated
surgical instruments. For this study mice were injected
intracerebrally, whereas the probable human exposure to
these agents is by peripheral routes (eg, oral or
intravenous), and thus human-to-human exposures
might be significantly less efficient. However, it is difficult
to know for sure what the practical implications might be
in human beings. Peripheral route challenge is in
progress; however, BSE transmission studies in primates
have shown the intravenous route to be as efficient as the
intracerebral route, with an extension of the incubation
time.28

Although all cases of vC]D up to now have been
observed in the MM genotype, this model of human-to-
human vCJD transmission suggests that other genotypes
are also susceptible. In our experimental setting, all
PRNP codon-129 genotypes are susceptible to vCJD
infection; however, progressive development of
pathological TSE features (vacuolation and PrP
deposition) is more rapid in the MM-genotype mice. An
explanation for this finding might be provided by in-vitro
conversion of recombinant human PrP by BSE and vCJD
agents, which has shown that PrP with methionine at
position 129 is more efficiently converted than PrP with
valine, and that conversion by vCJD is significantly more
efficient than by BSE.29 Long incubation periods during
which PrPSc is deposited predicts that, in human beings,
infection could be present in all genotypes for a significant
period before clinical onset. Incubation periods of more
than 30 years have been reported in the human TSE
disease kuru.30

The possibility that an MV or VV genotype could result
in a phenotype distinct from that recognised in vCJD
draws attention to the importance of systematic
assessment of the clinical, genetic, pathological, and

biochemical features of all human prion diseases. Our
findings indicate that for human-to-human vCJD infection

it should be assumed that all codon-129
genotype individuals (not just MM) can be infected, that
long incubation times can occur, and that a significant
level of subclinical disease might be present in the population.

Contributors

MTB, PH, and CP did immunocytochemical and western blot analysis;

JCM, NT, HNB, and LA produced the transgenic mouse lines; JWI
supplied vCJD case material and reviewed the neuropathology; VT did
the mouse inoculations; and MTB, PH, MWH, RGW, JWI, and JCM
prepared the manuscript.

Conflicts of interest

We have no conflicts of interest.

Acknowledgments


snip...

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474442206704136/abstra
ct?isEOP=true



TSS



----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry S. Singeltary Sr." <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: [CJDVoice] Fw: Predicting susceptibility and incubation time of
human-to-human transmission of vCJD


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry S. Singeltary Sr." <[email protected]>
> To: "Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Predicting susceptibility and incubation time of
human-to-human
> transmission of vCJD
>
>
> >
> > RECALLS AND FIELD CORRECTIONS: BIOLOGICS -- CLASS I
> >
> > _______________________________
> > PRODUCT
> > Human Tissue for Transplantation, Recall # B-0432-6:
> > a) Tricortical Wedge (R) 1.5 x 2.5 cm,
> > Freeze Dried Irradiated;
> > b) Tricortical Wedge ( L ) 1.7 x 3.0 cm,
> > Fresh Frozen Irradiated;
> > c) Cancellous Crushed 60.0 cc, Freeze Dried,
> > Irradiated;
> > d) Cancellous Crushed 30.0 cc Freeze Dried,
> > Irradiated;
> > e) Achilles Tendon OA ( R ) Fresh Frozen
> > Irradiated;
> > f) Achilles Tendon OA ( L ) Fresh Frozen
> > Irradiated;
> > g) Lumbar;
> > h) Cancellous Crushed 30.0 cc Fresh Frozen,
> > Irradiated
> > CODE
> > a) Tissue 04091-002;
> > b) Tissue 04113-003;
> > c) Tissues 04091-008, 04101-008, 04103-002,
> > 04103-003, 04105-003;
> > d) Tissues 04091-005, 04091-006, 04091-007,
> > 04101-006, 04101-007, 04102-004, 04102-005,
> > 04104-003, 04104-004, 04104-005, 04105-002,
> > 04109-003, 04109-004, 04120-004, 04124-003,
> > 04124-004, 04138-002, 04138-003, 04140-002,
> > 04143-002, 04143-003, 04146-001, 04152-001;
> > e) Tissues 04101-003, 04123-004;
> > f) Tissues 04101-004, 04123-003;
> > g) Tissues 03049-001, 03051-001, 04091-001,
> > 04102-001, 04103-001, 04104-001, 04105-001,
> > 04106-001, 04107-001, 04108-001, 04109-001,
> > 04113-001, 04120-001, 04122-001, 04123-001,
> > 04124-001;
> > h) Tissue 04108-002
> > RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
> > Recalling Firm: Central Texas Regional Blood & Tissue Center, Austin,
TX,
> by
> > telephone on October 4, 2005, and by letter dated October 11, 2005.
> > Manufacturer: Biomedical Tissue Services, Fort Lee, NJ, firm initiated
> > recall is ongoing.
> > REASON
> > Human tissues, procured from donors without adequate donor eligibility
> > determinations, were distributed.
> > VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
> > 51 allografts
> > DISTRIBUTION
> > TX and CO
> >
> > PRODUCT
> > Human Corneal Tissues for Transplantation, Recall # B-0380-6
> > CODE
> > Tissues: CI044108 OD and CI044108 OS
> > RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
> > Michigan Eye Bank, Ann Arbor, MI, by letter dated November 22, 2005, and
> by
> > facsimile dated November 28, 2005. Firm initiated recall is complete.
> > REASON
> > Human Corneas, collected from an ineligible donor, were distributed.
> > VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
> > 2 tissues
> > DISTRIBUTION
> > MI, CA and Germany
> >
> > _______________________________
> >
> > PRODUCT
> > a) Red Blood Cells Leukocytes Reduced,
> > Recall # B-0617-6;
> > b) Red Blood Cells (Apheresis) Leukocytes Reduced
> > (distributed as split product), Recall # B-0618-6;
> > c) Platelets Leukocytes Reduced, Recall # B-0619-6;
> > d) Fresh Frozen Plasma, Recall # B-0620-6;
> > e) Cryoprecipitated AHF, Recall # B-0621-6;
> > f) Plasma Cryoprecipitate Reduced, Recall # B-0622-6;
> > g) Recovered Plasma, Recall # B-0623-6
> > CODE
> > a) Unit numbers: 1136792, 1040212, 1011245;
> > b) Unit numbers: 1048247-1, 1048247-2;
> > c) Unit numbers: 1040212, 1011245;
> > d) Unit number: 1136792;
> > e) Unit numbers: 1040212, 1011245;
> > f) Unit number: 1040212;
> > g) Unit number: 1011245
> > RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
> > Hoxworth Blood Center, Cincinnati, OH, by letter dated September 6,
2005.
> > Firm initiated recall is complete.
> > REASON
> > Blood products, collected from a donor considered to be at increased
risk
> > for variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD), were distributed.
> > VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
> > 12 units
> > DISTRIBUTION
> > OH and FL
> >
> > _______________________________
> >
> > END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR MARCH 1, 2006
> >
> > ###
> >
> > http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00941.html
> >
> >
> > PRODUCT
> > Recovered Plasma, Recall # B-0643-6
> > CODE
> > Unit numbers: R170537, R165863, and R158308
> > RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
> > Puget Sound Blood Center, Seattle, WA, by facsimile on October 7, 2003.
> Firm
> > initiated recall is complete.
> > REASON
> > Blood products, which were collected from an unsuitable donor based on
> risk
> > factors for variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (vCJD), were distributed.
> > VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
> > 3 units
> > DISTRIBUTION
> > Austria
> >
> >
> > END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR FEBRUARY 22, 2006
> >
> > ###
> >
> > http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00940.html
> >
> >
> > PRODUCT
> > a) Product is 1.0 cc Regenaform® RT. SINGLE PATIENT
> > USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0481-06;
> > b) OPTEFORM Allografts of varying sizes. SINGLE PATIENT
> > USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0482-06;
> > c) Product is OPTEFORM Allograft Paste of varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0483-06;
> > d) OPTEFORM® RT Moldable Allograft of varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0484-06;
> > e) Osteofil + RT Allograft Paste in varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0485-06;
> > f) Osteofil Allograft Paste (Bio) of varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0486-06;
> > g) Osteofil IC Syringeable of varying sizes. SINGLE
> > PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # 0487-06;
> > h) Osteofil ICM Moldable Strip of varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0488-06;
> > i) Osteofil RT, ICM Allograft Paste of varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0489-06;
> > j) OSTEOFIL® DBM Paste of varying sizes. SINGLE
> > PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0490-06;
> > k) OsteoPack 3 FZ 22cc. SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY.
> > Recall # Z-0491-06;
> > l) Regenafil IC. SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY.
> > Recall # Z-0492-06;
> > m) REGENAFORM RT Allograft Paste, 1cc. SINGLE
> > PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0493-06;
> > n) Product is REGENAFORM® Allograft Moldable Blocks,
> > of varying sizes. SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY.
> > Recall # Z-0494-06;
> > o) Product is RTI Allograft Paste of varying sizes.
> > SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0495-06;
> > p) Product is REGENAFIL® Allograft Paste, Syringe,
> > 0.5cc. SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # 0496-06;
> > q) Product is 1.0cc flowable paste from donor
> > approved for distribution in Italy. SINGLE
> > PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0497-06;
> > r) Product is OPTEFIL Allograft Paste of varying
> > sizes. SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall
> > # Z-0498-06;
> > s) Product is OPTEFIL Allograft Paste, Syringe
> > of varying sizes. SINGLE PATIENT USE ONLY.
> > Recall # Z-0499-06;
> > t) Product is OPTEFORM® Allograft Full Disc,
> > 5 x 90mm, 32cc, Frozen. SINGLE PATIENT USE
> > ONLY, Recall # Z-0500-06;
> > u) Product is 2.0 cc Opteform® RT. SINGLE
> > PATIENT USE ONLY. Recall # Z-0501-06
> > CODE
> > 2879130 2879131 2879132 2879133 2879134 2879135 2879136 2879137 2879138
> > 2879139 2879350 2879351 2879352 2879353 2879354 2879355 2879440 2879441
> > 2879442 2879443 2879444 2879445 2879446 2879447 2879448 2879449 2879450

snip...end (to long and to many to post here...TSS)


TSS
 
Flounder, one of the most dangerous methods of transmission is by way of blood and tissue transfer. People do not realize that when tainted blood is transfered to a patient, infection is instantaneous as it is with tissue transplants such as cornea, lug & liver and so on. People seem to think that all tissue comes from cadavers or from family or type cast donors - it doesn't - a heck of lot of it comes from tissue banks and may well have been in storage for many years at minus 80 deg. or colder.

Yes, I am well aware of the work being done at Edinborough and also by Prof. John Collinge in London. I shall be in london at the end of next week visiting there.
 
bse-tester,

while you are in London, why don't you ask Dr. Collinge and Dr. D. Matthews to "characterize" the prion protein [both the healthy one and the mal-formed one(s)].

Since over the last 20 years, this has never been done, I had hoped that they might get around to it sooner, rather than later. The closest anyone has gotten to this, is Dr. David Brown of the University of Bath. They could provide him with some mice to test his manganese prions on.

I wonder, too, what will happen after a few more decades. Dr. Chris Busby and others, have identified high levels of radio-active fallout in the UK from the depleted uranium weaponry used in Afganastan and Iraq (etc). Brits inhaled DU particulate at levels very high, which Halliburton didn't want anyone to know about. I'll send you the paper if you'd like it.

Scientists have identified uranium in the brains of Alzheimer patients, and it shouldn't take 20 more years to look at the brains of some animals with other diseases like BSE and CWD, to determine what metals accumulated and screwed things up.

Particulate matter smaller than 2.5 microns is getting alot of attention now of days. Seems smaller is more deadly!

Have a wonderful time in England. I am jealous. I'd love to have a little holiday over there. I hope you have good weather, and some good times.
 
Kathy wrote:

Scientists have identified uranium in the brains of Alzheimer patients, and it shouldn't take 20 more years to look at the brains of some animals with other diseases like BSE and CWD, to determine what metals accumulated and screwed things up.

Some suggestions have been made in the UK about the Alzheimer's patients and others having abnormal amounts of Uranium isotope residue in their systems and the general conscensus has identified that a great number of these people had lived many years within the atmospheric down-range of some of Britains first built nuclear power stations. The down-range meaning being the areas that would be typically down-wind from the plants. As you may well know Kathy, the typical plant has two or three huge chimneys that are used to diffuse the output streams of steam used in scrubbing the output gases which are mainly water droplets that are the end result of the power generation cycle. These steam droplets form huge clouds down-range. In the early years of the British nuke program it was largely a "new frontier" and the construction of the plants had problems that manifested themselves in excess output of some rather touchy material. The Brits never really admitted anything but the thoughts were common over there that some radioactive material was commonly set free into the atmosphere in those early years.

I am wondering if the numbers of those folks who exhibited symptoms of radioactive infussion ever lived in the down-range areas? Even though the steam output in those chimneys was the end result of the cycle - the cycle simply being that nuke power was used to provide the heat to produce the steam that was used to drive the turbines that provided the power that drove the generators that produced the electricity and thus, the waste material coming out of the other end was of course, dead steam (water) that was reheated to be released as steam after it was scrubbed clean. Supposedly!!

Kathy, I will try to have a great time over there and if I can get hold of John Collinge or Danny Brown I will certainly discuss a few things with them. John Collinge is in London at the National and Danny Brown of course, is at the VLA at Weybridge, in Surrey about 45 minutes away from where I will be. I will ask him if he wants to join me for a beer in a local pub. I am going to contact the Head of Archives at Weybridge, a chum of mine who is in charge of all archive material such as Scrapie and BSE urine and see if I can get some for our validation in Cleveland. We shall see. There is also a chap at Oxford who wants to partner up and conduct urine studies with us and that may occur.

Did you know that Paris is only a 2 1/2 hour train ride (Aerostar Bullet Train) from the center of London? I can leave Waterloo at 8am and be in Paris enjoying a walk down the Champs Ellysee by 11am. Oh what fun. Thanks for your comments Kathy.
 
kathy wrote;



Scientists have identified uranium in the brains of Alzheimer patients, and it shouldn't take 20 more years to look at the brains of some animals with other diseases like BSE and CWD, to determine what metals accumulated and screwed things up.



Severe cerebral congophilic angiopathy coincident with

increased brain aluminium in a resident of Camelford,

Cornwall, UK...................snip........end



Kathy, i thought you might be interested in this, but remember, 'infectious transmission of metals', not proven yet,

but never say i don't always keep an open mind :-)





. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 2006;000:1–3. doi: 10.1136/jnnp.2005.086553

In July 1988, 20 tonnes of aluminium sulphate was

discharged by the South West Water Authority into the

drinking water supplied to a large region of North Cornwall.

Up to 20 000 people were exposed to concentrations of

aluminium which were 500–3000 times the acceptable limit

under the European Union legislation (0.200 mg/l).

Although this incident is currently the topic of a government

inquiry, nothing is known about its longer-term repercussions

on human health. The first neuropathological examination of

a person who was exposed and died of an unspecified

neurological condition was carried out. A rare form of

sporadic early-onset b amyloid angiopathy in cerebral

cortical and leptomeningeal vessels, and in leptomeningeal

vessels over the cerebellum was identified. In addition, high

concentrations of aluminium were found coincident with the

severely affected regions of the cortex. Although the presence

of aluminium probably is not adventitious, determining its

role in the observed neuropathology is impossible. A clearer

understanding of aluminium's role in this rare form of

Alzheimer-related disease should be provided by future

research on other people from the exposed population as

well as similar neuropathologies in people within or outside

this group.



snip...



We are not aware of any other determinations of

aluminium content in the brain in similar cases. To our

knowledge, aluminium content in the brain has not hitherto

been measured in any case of presenile dementia, nor has it

previously been associated with the APOE genotype. The

range of high aluminium content measured in the brain in

this case may reflect focal deposits of aluminium, as has been

observed previously in Alzheimer's disease,13—for example,

aluminium may be co-deposited with b amyloid.14

Aluminium, along with iron, is implicated in the aggregation

of b amyloid in b sheets15 and this may explain their possible

co-localisation in this case. Despite both aluminium and b

amyloid being implicated in Alzheimer's disease, we can only

speculate about their individual or joint roles in this case,

although their association with the observed neuropathology

is unlikely to be wholly adventitious. It is possible that the

high content of aluminium in the brain is a consequence of a

previous exposure to extremely high concentrations of

aluminium in drinking water (approximately 500–3000 times

the maximum allowable concentration for potable water),

although this remains to be confirmed in other people from

the exposed population. It is not possible to say on the basis

of present evidence whether aluminium had a causative role

in this case. Further follow-up to assess cognitive function in

survivors of this toxic incident, however, would seem

warranted and neuropathological examination of the brains

of survivors, if consent is given, should be undertaken

whenever the opportunity arises. .............



Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry jn86553 Module 4 18/4/06 19:06:42tss
 

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