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Following Too Many Numbers?

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here is the link to an article that adds a little different spin on EPD selection for some traits.

http://angusthemagazine.com/currentissue/2008/jul-aug/numbersalone.html
 
One of the the hot bloodlines now being looked at in Angus is in Scottish cattle- and lies primarily with genetics from the Dunlouise Angus herd, www.dunlouiseangus.com through SEK Genetics, as well as the Scottish cattle project at Sinclair Cattle Co...

You do have to admit that EXCALIBUR bull is a hunk of beef....

http://www.dunlouiseangus.com/
 
I can probably find enough big fat spoiled uddered cows fairly close to home to do me just fine. Pretty sure those hothouse flowers would die part way through a Sask. winter-but fat is pretty.
 
Northern Rancher said:
I can probably find enough big fat spoiled uddered cows fairly close to home to do me just fine. Pretty sure those hothouse flowers would die part way through a Sask. winter-but fat is pretty.

Saddle Butte Ranch of Geyser Mt. is breeding strictly to them and the New Zealand bulls this year- along with their Wye breeding, so they should get a test to see if they die away in a winter...
 
I read that same article when the magazine came out and it got me wondering about something. I am considering ultrasounding for carcass traits when I ultrasound my heifers for pregnancy this fall. I always breed twice as many heifers as what I eventually need to keep so that I have more selection and I also get to tighter earlier calving group which should help them calve early in the calving season their whole life.

Now with that being said, let's say that I end up with 120 out of 180 heifers AI bred from which to select from and I only need to keep 90. Let's say that 100 of those showed Choice marbling traits. In the past, I choose replacements out of those 120 on phenotype, disposition, frame size, structure, etc. If you also had the carcass traits from which to help your decision would that not be good information if you had 2 heifers that looked to be keepers but one was Select and one was Choice. I guess I wouldn't call that single trait selection with everything else being equal.

The cost is $15 per head which sounds like a lot but I have fed enough cattle and sold some on a grid to know that there can be as much as $400 difference between the best steer and the worst steer in a group.

I would be interested in your thoughts.
 
The udders on that Scottish web site sure weren't much to right home about-plenty of cattle in Canada and the U'S that have adapted to our cold-dry conditions. Obscenely fat cows up to their bellies in baby grass an ocean away don't light my fire-but heck they're new-pit right in. We used some New Zealand bloodlines years ago and they were just cattle. That bull on the cement has had his feet trimmed too which is a no-no in my books-guess I'm a dour Scott on this deal.
 
If the statements made in the article are not self-evident, then the reader is probably not a very savvy cattleman/cattlewoman.

I find it ridiculous that the columnist has been paid for her time to patronize readers with this discussion about single-trait selection. I guess the "wine and cheese" club of breeders could probably learn something there, but the true cattle folks shouldn't have to be coached about single-trait selection in this day and age. :shock:

Why throw stones at folks that pay attention to marbling? Gee whiz, maybe someone like Big Swede has actually been paid for it! Does that mean that Big Swede is a Big Dummy and knows nothing about breeding cattle and selection? No. It just means that within his own herd he's come to the point where he can use that extra information to further refine his genetics. This is on top of the other important traits that he's already well aware of and looking out for when he selects sires or replacements. Golly :roll:

Yeah, chasing the marbling fad amongst the purebred breeders has created some bad cattle. Doesn't mean we can't include marbling in a balanced-trait kind of selection model. Big Swede, I think you're on to a useful train of thought. Only thing is that I thought it was cheaper than $15/hd. to ultrasound commercial cattle. I guess everything is more expensive these days.

HP
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
That Dunlouise Cortachy Boy bull that Saddle Butte is using is also a darn good looking bull. I like him better then those New Zealand bulls.

I agree he is fine looking- I guess he'll just have to be tested thru actual conditions to see how he holds up...

I spent the day locating my bulls in the "community pasture" (fence wiped out in several places between mine and the neighbors lease)-and gathering them- but was highly impressed by the little (4 framed) Legacy 3R9 son I have out of the Viking bloodline cow #15800327....After being out with cows since the first week of June- and watching him chase every cow that moved- he's in as good a shape as the yearling 1/2 brother steers :shock:
If his calves look good in the spring- I think it might make my decision to what I will be breeding the registered heifers to next year much easier- along with putting the bulk of the registered cows with...He is looking like a minature version of his grandad- RR Rito 707...

Beautiful day today- picked up .15 inch of rain last night- and another storm came thru this afternoon and put down another .10- with more scattered showers still moving thru.....Now that the hay and wheat are all up- I'd love to see a gully washer come thru and fill some waterholes..
 
Doesn't look like the cattle have changed much since I was there in '92. The bull my folks exported to Scotland had a herdsman and 2 Border Collies take care of him night and day. The herdsman fed, watered, washed and exercised him, and the Collies brought cycling cows to him in his paddock that would barely qualify big enough as a backyard in most suburbs. I'm not kidding when I say that old Coalition was in a "pen" about 20yds square, with one electric wire, and grass up to his belly. The Collies would bring the cow in, Coal would breed her, and the dogs would take her back out. We saw him settle 5 or 6 head that way while we were there. And this was the norm on most studs we visited.

As for udders, most show cows were nursing their calves 1/2 the time, the other 1/2 the calf spent on an Ayreshire or Guernsey. My point is this, when our production systems are so vastly different, why use genetics from one to 'improve' the other? I can see the train of thought that PERHAPS one could bring some good traits from those cattle and infuse into their herd here, but there's a price to be paid also. I would rather seek out the cattle that have what we want, from an environment like our own, and progress with them. Just my 2cents....
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
Northern Rancher said:
Exactlyyy!!!!


So where did the South Devon's come from? :???:

Or the kaisers "wooly beasts" :???: How much rain you get Big Muddy? We picked up .45 over the last two days...Shut all the combining and haying down for a couple days...Flat cold here today with the wind feeling like its blowing off an iceberg - on 53 at noon... Getting us ready for the change thats coming .....
 
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
Northern Rancher said:
Exactlyyy!!!!


So where did the South Devon's come from? :???:

Or the kaisers "wooly beasts" :???: How much rain you get Big Muddy? We picked up .45 over the last two days...Shut all the combining and haying down for a couple days...Flat cold here today with the wind feeling like its blowing off an iceberg - on 53 at noon... Getting us ready for the change thats coming .....


Not alot of rain. I didn't check the gauge as it didn't rain in the night and only started about 8 this morning.. Weyburn has had about an inch by noon. It had rained hard since about 9:30 there.
 
I just found out yesterday that my son's 4-H steer was named Supreme Champion at our county fair. They use a formula which includes ultrasound carcass data, rate of gain, and live placing at the show. Anyway it makes me wonder if I need to spend the $15 per head to get more information on my bred heifers. It's kind of satisfying to think that we might be on the right track with our current genetics and selection. I keep toying with the idea of crossbreeding but then the next day I think maybe I should be satisfied with where we are at right now.

I guess the ultimate goal we should have is to improve the bottom end of our cattle. Nobody has the perfect set of cows. Every herd has a bottom end. There are plenty of methods to try to improve the poor end of the herd, but choosing the best method is the challenge.
 

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