Food for thought for winter calving

[Big Swede]

you've tried talkin' to ol bull riders before, haven't ya. :lol: :wink:

Heck, I even type real slow when I'm trying to tell him something but it still doesn't help! :lol:

I'd argue with you three idiots but winning a debate with the 3 stooges isn't exactly resume material! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Those were three of the finest digs of the spur a guy could experience. Sadly they came from a guy who calves the wrong time a year, a person who jumps off of perfectly good horses who weren't even bucking and the spokesman of the carhart evening wear catalog. I gotta expand my pool of friends! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Excellent comeback H! :lol: :lol:

Like I said earlier, I'm not trying to convert anyone, don't want or need the competition. This only works if we all keep doing what we're doing.

 

[Silver]

When I was a teenager we calved a lot of purebreds and so Dad would start calving beginning of February. I was grumbling about it and asked why in the world anyone would calve at that time of year. The response was fairly simple. "What else is there to do at this time of year". :? I don't miss that, March can be tough enough but at least you know it can warm up to stay at any time!

 

[WyomingRancher]

Seems like this same topic comes up every year.

Early or late calving is simply a matter of preference depending on many factors such as; your area average weather, available calving facilities, calving ease, available help, seedstock vs commercial, number of cattle, number of heifers, your age and relative health, etc, etc, the list goes on.

What works on one ranch may not be correct for the next one. Like most of ranching and farming, look at your statistics and variables objectively, over a ten year period if possible. Apply those statistics and common sense to your specific ranch and situation.

...or co-mingle with another herd on a forest permit during the summer. I don't have a night calver, or day help, but I do have nice facilities and not a huge herd to calve thankfully. Also, the worst seems to only last 3-4 weeks. I believe on this ranch you calve early before the big snows typically hit, or late May if you had private summer ground you could use. The worst calving of my life occurred when we switched to April calving, I couldn't move them back to February fast enough . I agree with Soap, it requires work no matter when you do it.

 

[jodywy]

March snow is deeper and much drier the April Snow which usually has some bare ground even if it just the feed grounds... bugs don't live on snow..... :wink:

 

[Howdy1]

I had a very successful rancher tell my why he calved early (February). He would rather have them walk around on frozen ground for the first part of their lives rather than having to trudge thru the mud and wet with no good place to lay down. He thought it was easier on them to take on March and April storms with some age on them instead of being little babies. He claimed it cost a little more in management and feed but he claimed his death loss was less with winter calving.

 

[eatbeef]

We do both, calve 1 group now, and the other group in May. May is way easier. Their are pros and cons to both. If we weren't selling yearling bulls, we would only calves in May/June. But we supply both yearlings and 2's, so we do both.

To play the devils advocate, your prices are nearly the same, but all fed until Jan or Feb. But here are some prices of customers who sold off the cow at a sale we put on in Oct. They pretty much are in the same environment and management styles, only difference are basically the calving dates.

April calvers
473 lbs at $202.00 = $955
461 lbs at $ 201.50 = $929
441 at $204.00 = $900

Feb. Calvers
621 lbs at $189.00 = $1174
598 lbs at $189.00 = $1130
609 lbs at $187.25 = $1140

Even with that price difference the later calving would still be more profitable. It would still take less feed in Feb and Mar and if them April calves were weaned Oct 1 them cows would have 2 months longer of dry period which would equally less feed in the winter also.

 

[Kato]

We're calving right now. It's the most brutal winter in 75 years, but we're doing OK. We've got 90 out of 130 on the ground, and the worst problem has been a couple of ears lost. The cows didn't even come into the yard until a week before calving. They were out grazing corn until the end of January.

This is why we calve now. We have the facilities, for a start. We send a lot of our cows off to leased pasture. Not near home. Calving on that pasture is not an option. We would likely never see the calves again. The health on the early calves is far better than the later ones, due to the dry conditions mentioned here already. Scours are pretty much non existent in the early calves. Always have been.

In 40 years, we've thawed two hypothermic calves in the bathtub. Both were April calves. The early calves handle those spring storms just fine, but the calves born in April are more likely to cause us problems.

In the fall, we don't have to wait until January to get a 700 pound calf. About half of ours are gone in November, having no money being spent on them after weaning. I'm still not sure how the math works to say that backgrounding a 4 weight up to 700 pounds is cheaper than that. Our 2013 calves are all gone now. Only replacements left here.

We keep this scenario in mind too.. if it happens to be a feed shortage, and there's not enough to go around, we know our calves have enough size in the fall that we would still make out OK if we had to load them up and sell them all. Someday that could save the cowherd. Better to save the feed for the cows.

 

[LazyWP]

Kinda funny, I never had any frozen footed calves of my own, when I calved in January and February, but have sure fed out a bunch of frozen footed calves from my neighbors who calve in April and May.
Myself, if I had my own grass, I would start in June for 30 days, but I am dreaming.

 

[Battle T]

I have avoided calving in March and its associated mud and busy work by calving in January. My research showed last march was 10*colder than February, and this February was 10* colder than this January. All I know is that when we have this 10" of ice melt here I will be glad I have 200 lb calves. As well I can hit whatever market I want this fall with big calves and concentrate on the feedstock business and go hunting. Each to their own but many a
April calves here have not made the effort to background, and still sell into the fall run with a dink calf and leave money on the table.

 

[RSL]

We have had a new experience this winter with some purebreds I bought. The first 7 calves born in winter have consumed more time and labour than 200 or so born in May/June (even without tagging and weighing). I know our -74F in the wind is extreme, but as near as I can figure for us the cost of winter calving is absolutely not feasible. We background calves and feed second trimester dry cows in the deep parts of winter (normally) so the feed bill is lower for our c/c enterprise than if we were feeding third trimester or lactating cows for the last 3 to 5 months of winter. When we calve in May/June we are past the mud stage and if it does rain we are not subject to mud on the grass, if it doesn't rain we can sell our grass cattle and keep the cows. Other additional costs in winter calving for us are barn cleaning, corral cleaning, hot boxing calves, scrubbing porch floors, calf death loss (lost one that got laid on in the barn), fuel for feeding and checking time.
I understand the cash flow thing and gross dollars and we are lucky with the stage of our business and our payment structures that margin is a lot bigger concern. I know for us, even if we sold at weaning the margin on our May/June calves would be a lot higher than calving early.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Nice thing about ranching is if your happy doing it and can keep doing it then it's the right way for you.

I turn bulls out the 15th of July and hope for decent weather the end of April. My cow herd is grazing in the badlands 7 miles from home so calving this time of year wouldn't work for me.

 

[Faster horses]

OOPS!.

 

[leanin' H]

Spring must be getting closer if we are "discussing" the best calving dates! :lol: :lol: :lol: It's a tradition here and we enjoy telling each other why we are right and you are wrong. :wink: :wink: I'd comment further but I still haven't read past where Big Swede told me not to. :lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S. I haven't started yet but it won't be long til a few hit the ground. This year they may kick up dust when they land instead of splashing.

 

[C Thompson]

I'm with Big Swede and Eat Beef on this one. Don't expect any calves here before April 15th at the earliest. Recently found out cows can not only actually calve on their own if we select heifer type calving ease bulls and let it happen on dry warm ground covered in grass but we can sleep all night and check once or twice a day in our shirt sleeves as we go about other chores. How come the only other option to snow and ice mentioned here is mud? I don't think either of those environments would be my choice if I also had a dry and warm season. Did it that way for too many years and can't imagine any good reason to go back. Economics, health and quality of life(cattle and people), time management, etc. Hard not to see an upside here. Hope the weather gets warmer quick unless it is too quick and makes mud. Here's to a prosperous 2014.

 

[Faster horses]

The young family who leases our place calves mid-April til June 1. Last fall his steer calves weighed 600# right on the nose the second week of October. He kept non back and I don't think he doctored any or lost any.
He feeds them in the morning and checks for new calves, and goes through the cows again in the evening. He calves them in the hills and very seldom has a problem that he has to bring to the barn. If we were to go back to c/c situation, we would do exactly as he is doing. Takes the work out...

Of course, he calves his heifers earlier at another ranch so those aren't included in the April calvers. We do know, that a good storm is possible in April. In fact, one of the worst storms we were ever in was a Good Friday Storm, April, in Wyoming. I'll never forget that one. But by and large, April calving seems to work in our area

 

[greybeard]

The hardest part about switching over to spring calving was not turning the bulls in on those nice warm May days. Perfect weather for breeding, no flies, cows cycling on green grass.
Fortunately I outgrew my facilities. I don't see any new ones being built.
Are any of you winter calvers considering building a big new barn?

 

[Big Swede]

I'm with Big Swede and Eat Beef on this one. Don't expect any calves here before April 15th at the earliest. Recently found out cows can not only actually calve on their own if we select heifer type calving ease bulls and let it happen on dry warm ground covered in grass but we can sleep all night and check once or twice a day in our shirt sleeves as we go about other chores. How come the only other option to snow and ice mentioned here is mud? I don't think either of those environments would be my choice if I also had a dry and warm season. Did it that way for too many years and can't imagine any good reason to go back. Economics, health and quality of life(cattle and people), time management, etc. Hard not to see an upside here. Hope the weather gets warmer quick unless it is too quick and makes mud. Here's to a prosperous 2014.

You hit that one right on the head with your ice and snow vs. mud comment C Thompson. Neither one is a good option but warm weather and green grass trumps both of them. Too many people think you need to calve at the same facilities even though the summer pasture is available. Those cows do the calving, not me. I was stuck in that paradigm for a while to but I found my way out. God checks my cows at night and He does a fine job.

Nobody is going to be convinced here on this forum, that needs to be a personal decision. OK Leanin H you can start reading again.

 

[gcreekrch]

Nobody is going to be convinced here on this forum, that needs to be a personal decision. OK Leanin H you can start reading again.

Exactly right. What my neighbors do is none of my business unless it affects me.


It's still fun to discuss this. :lol:

Oh....... you might be mistaken about H reading, think the Mrs. or the kids do that for him and do a little stenographing too. :wink:

 

[Big Swede]

I agree, if we didn't argue about something this place would get boring.

 

[Soapweed]

You might be too young to remember, Big Swede :wink: , but do you recall sometime back in the early 1990's when we got a five inch rain about the middle of May. There were almost more lakes than hills. It came hard and fast, though there was no hail with it. On one of our hills, there was quite a gully created. A cow got stuck in the quicksand that formed at the bottom of the hill. She required a pull with a pickup to get set free.

Another incident that comes to mind on that big rain happened to your neighbors. They were in the process of hauling cow/calf pairs to summer grass about thirty miles away. Somehow they had two pot loads of cows that arrived at grass, but two large stock trailers full of calves were still at home, with no way of traversing the thirty miles in between because of too much water on the road. I don't recall "the rest of the story" of how long it took to get the pairs mated up again. If a big rain like that came along in May, calving might not be much more fun then than in a March blizzard. Just a rare happening as "food for thought."