I think Econ 101 is correct. I quized the meat supervisor at our local Sam's because they advertise "choice beef" with a big sign over the counter. However, none of their packages had a grade stamp on it. I asked him where the choice beef with a grade stamp was and he said there are no grade stamps, but the better beef was in a little counter at the end. So the big choice beef signs that that hung over the counter are totally meaningless and Sam's is guilty of false advertising. I contacted USDA to ask them about it and they said they no longer grade meat. That if a packer wants beef graded by an inspecter it is done through AMS. I contacted AMS and they said all grading is voluntary and that a grade stamp on a package is not required anymore. So I guess the way our govt runs things the grade is totally meaningless. I've heard a lot of complaining about "packer bashers" on this web sight, but they don't hold a candle to USDA. I said ten years ago we didn't need USDA and should abolish them and balance the budget on their backs. They have about them same mentality as FEMA.
For Econ 101 on Walmart Grades
- Thread starter cedardell
- Start date
agman
Well-known member
cedardell said:
You are wrong. Sams is a choice product supplier - period. They are not guilty of false advertising as you suggest. You are guilty of either receiving incorrect information or misinterpertiting what you recieved.
agman said:
Agman, I wasn't wrong about Walmart or the wacky regulations that require inspectors to identify themselves before investigating the type of claims I make.
The fact that grade stamps are not making it to the meat package is very concerning. It just turns into another packer gimmick and plays off the ignorance of consumers who haven't had the training to grade the meat themselves.
RobertMac
Well-known member
Agman, if a company is going to assert that they are selling a graded product, shouldn't that product be graded by a FSIS inspector and be labeled as such? My label requirements are very strict!
If Sam's is paying the extra hundred dollars an hour to get the USDA grades it seems to me like they would have the grade stamp on the package. USDA rules require that USDA graded meat has that grade on the package or it can not claim a USDA grade.
If Sam's is paying the extra hundred dollars an hour to have meat USDA graded they would want to have the grade stamp on the label of the package. USDA rules require that USDA graded meat has the grade stamp on the package. Sam's does not have a grade stamp on the package so it is against the rules for them to advertise USDA grades. Is every packing plant in the world going to grade their own meat and merchandise it in the US as USDA graded? I hope not, but that seems to be what is happening because no one is following the labeling requirement anymore for some strange reason.
cedardell said:
Go back and reread your post after the call you said you made to USDA. Grading is voluntary, and paid for by the packer. Packers DO NOT grade their own product. There is no grading expense to Sams. If Sam's is promoting Choice beef, you can bet it is. To assume otherwise is foolish.
Beefman said:
Beefman, if there is as much funny business going on in the grading services as there is in GIPSA, you can not say anything with regards to the certainty of your statements.
Where does " USDA Grade A" come from?
Be sure to explain where "USDA Grade A" meat is graded and by whom.
Have your analytical skills decided to take the day off? If Sam's is selling Choice, (which they do) it'll be promoted as such. Like 'em or not, Sam's didn't get to where they are by making gross amounts of bad, unethical decisions. We all know the meatcase can be an effective means of attracting and keeping customers. The Sams meatcase carries primals from all major packers (I always check when I go in) that're clearly stamped Choice. I've also seen CAB product in the case. Otherwise, unless you have further specifics, I'm unaware of any "funny business" with grading.Econ101 said:
Sam's also knows that there's wingnuts with ample time on their hands roaming aimlessly around the ailes, hassling their employees, and looking for any means to be a hero. I also understand this occurance is most prevalent in certain TX Walmarts / Sams. Upon audit, if the product in the meatcase is detailed and promoted as Choice, there better be boxes, records, etc to support the meatcase labeling. I can assure you, there is.
Grade A (referencing beef) details maturity, between 9 and 30 months.
Beefman said:
Beefman, there is no USDA Grade A in beef. If you need to learn a little more about this discussion you may read the following publication:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/standards/beef-car.pdf
There are grade a chickens, eggs, and other items, but THERE IS NO GRADE A BEEF. IT IS A MISREPRESENTATION. IT IS JUST MADE UP. QUALITY GRADES AND YIELD GRADES ARE ONE THING BUT SAYING THE MATURITY, CLASS, OR TYPE OF BEEF IS A GRADE IS JUST PLAIN LYING TO CUSTOMERS.
MAKING INVESTIGATORS IDENTIFY THEMSELVES BEFORE ASKING THESE KIND OF QUESTIONS PUTS INTO SERIOUS QUESTION THE INTEGRITY OF THE "INVESTIGATION" THAT IS PREFORMED (pun intended).
There is nothing heroic about pointing out that your government regulatory agencies are not doing their jobs and beef products are being misrepresented to customers, I assure you.
I find it very interesting that packers can put the maturity of the animals on the box but not the quality grade. Heck, they can't even tell what country it comes from and give that information to customers.
Econ101 said:
My response was correct. Check out page #9 of your document. Maturity grades / classification are a determining factor in the final quality grade. Quality grades would be on the box and primal label. I don't know for sure, but I doubt you'd find maturity references on labels or boxes for prime, choice, select or CAB product.
Leave the poor meat man at Walmart alone. Isn't there something / someone / some issue in bicycles or trash cans where you can proclaim "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
Beefman said:
No, Beefman, your response was not correct. there is no maturity grade. There is a classification for maturity, but THERE IS NO GRADE for maturity. THERE IS NO "USDA GRADE A BEEF".
Just to clue you in, there are quality grades and yield grades. There are no maturity grades. Your putting grade/classification together is the problem. Maturity classifications may fall into one of the quality grades but they are not the same.
I guess you want me to leave everyone that misrepresents for you alone. It is not good for customers nor is it good for the industry.
Tyson wants to pawn off lower costing animals for better grading beef. They are not giving the customer the information so they can make a good decision. When asked by customers, the people in charge lie about the product. The meat industry is not educating consumers---they are trying to make a quick buck off of a lower quality product with lies.
As I said before, some of that meat should be going in the grind, not in the artificial gas packages that have beef saturated with unnatural salt water and passed off as a quality product with word games.
When Walmart claims that the meat it sells is USDA GRADE A meat by their meat department personell, they are misrepresenting the truth to sell product. They are assiging a made up grade that can easily be considered a fraud. THERE ARE NO USDA GRADE A CATTLE or BEEF. Tyson and Walmart are just getting their chickens and beef mixed up.
Now why would they want to do that? Can't they tell the difference? Must the Beef Checkoff go in and retrain Tyson and Walmart personell?
agman
Well-known member
RobertMac said:
It is graded by a USDA grading inspector RM. What makes you think it is not? Wal-Mart does not grade their own meat, you should know that. They do have guality control people in plants that supply product to thier specifications. That situation is so for most major end-users that I know of.
agman
Well-known member
Econ101 said:
Why are you blaming the packers for something you claim Wal-Mart is doing? You're ignorance, hate and willingness to always blame is so transparent it would be laughable if it was not so sad and pathetic.
Econ101 said:
You will find numerous industry and internet references to maturity. (grade/classification / etc). As said before, maturity is a calculation in final quality grade determination. No, there is no beef quality grade called "USDA Grade A". It'd be extremely difficult to throw a conspiracy/fraud/misrepresentation net over the entire retail industry over a supposed conversaton you had with the local Walmart shelf stocker.
PORKER
Well-known member
Do you think its safe to report this to the MRS .FONG?????????
There is that conspiracy word again. You seem to be using it as a shield, beefman. Walmart is the largest retailer. Tyson is the largest beef producer. It is not a "supposed" conversation, it was a real one. Your conversation with the meat manager holding over his head select beef and promoting it the way you described is suspect. Did you let him know implicitly that you approved his business practices before getting that result? I acted, and am, a regular customer that just happens to know more than the average customer about beef, grading, and false advertising.
The beef industry can not be trusted to educate consumers about the industry practices as they are looking out for their bottom line. The USDA is not even enforcing existing provisions that allow customers a fair chance at "getting it right" at the meat counter.
You have spent your time arguing with me over the use of terminology when even you got it wrong. You epitomize the problem in the beef industry and show how the industry is being hurt by the control one segement has over it. Your side of the industry has been able to separate the average retail consumers into "knowledge" groups so you can take advantage of them in the marketplace with plain out and out misrepresentations and lies.
There is a lot of money spent on cattle in the breeding stock and in the feedyards trying to get what the market asks but the beef side of the industry seems to not care about tricking customers at the retail level into buying meat that is lower grading as higher quality cuts with misrepresentations and outright lies. It hurts the industry.
You have been exposed, Beefman.
RobertMac
Well-known member
agman said:
Agman, a plant's "guality control people", (I'm sure), can sort and grade carcasses as good are better than the FSIS inspectors. I'm not implying that SAM's isn't selling a 'choice quality' product, but am asking are they selling a " guality control person" sorted product to save the cost of FSIS grading?
I agree with Econ, that the industry is not very interested in educating consumers about our product. Savvy consumers educate themselves and more and more are coming to niche markets(and directly from producers) to buy their beef (and they have the money and are willing to pay premiums to get what they want).
Jason
Well-known member
Maybe you guys should stop fighting the check off and start promoting beef and consumer education with the dollars.
In Canada there is a description of each cut that helps consumers know how to cook it. For example it is not just a rib steak, but a rib grilling steak, it is a good cut for grilling.
Every beef producer should explain to anyone they meet that is confused about marbling grades what they mean.
I guess first we would need to educate producers.
In Canada there is a description of each cut that helps consumers know how to cook it. For example it is not just a rib steak, but a rib grilling steak, it is a good cut for grilling.
Every beef producer should explain to anyone they meet that is confused about marbling grades what they mean.
I guess first we would need to educate producers.
Jason said:
Jason, speak for yourself. I already do what you suggested. It is really hard for some of these consumers to make good choices when all the education in the world doesn't matter if the retailer isn't going to put the information on the package.