For Mike, R2 and bse tester.

[TimH]

Check this out folks. Pay particular attention to the annexes at the end.

You can view the whole thing here http://www.food.gov.uk/bse/what/about/report/annexhBSE controls final report, 20 December 2000, Annex H: Tables of experiments



Food Standards Agency review of BSE controls
Final Report, 20 December 2000

ANNEX H
Table of experiments carried out to determine infectivity in different tissues taken from natural cases of BSE and from various species challenged experimentally with BSE


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Donor Species Tissue Recipient Species Route Infectivity?

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Cattle, natural BSE Brain, spinal cord, retina, fractions of blood, bone marrow, milk, cerebrospinal fluid, fat, alimentary tract, heart, kidney, pancreas, liver, lung, spleen, tonsil, lymph nodes, muscle, peripheral nerves, reproductive tracts including embryos and semen, skin, trachea 20-30 mice per tissue Inoculation (intracerebral and intraperitoneal) Brain, spinal cord, retina1,2,3,4

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Cattle, natural BSE Milk, udder, spleen, placenta, lymph nodes Groups of 8-20 + mice Oral No detectable infectivity5,6

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Cattle, natural BSE Embryos from BSE-affected cows BSE free heifers, producing 266 Calves Embryo transfer No detectable infectivity after 7yrs7 in embryo recipients or progeny

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Cattle, natural BSE Foetal membranes 12 Calves Oral No detectable transmission of BSE after 7yrs*

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Cattle, natural BSE Spleen, lymph nodes 4 cattle per tissue Intracerebral inoculation No detectable transmission of BSE after 7yrs8

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4 month old calves, orally dosed with 100g of BSE-affected brain Brain, spinal cord, various ganglia, peripheral nerves, muscle, alimentary tract, heart, liver, kidney, lung, thymus, tonsil, spleen, lymph nodes, white blood cell fraction, bone marrow 20 mice per tissue Intracerebral and intraperitoneal inoculation Small intestine (6-18) months, brain, spinal cord, trigeminal and dorsal root ganglia (all around period of clinical onset), bone marrow (38 months)9,10,11

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4 month old calves, orally dosed with 100g of BSE-affected brain Brain, spinal cord, muscle, lymph nodes, small intestine, liver, kidney, white blood cell fraction 4 cattle per tissue Intracerebral
inoculation Small intestine, brain, spinal cord*

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Cattle, natural BSE Brain Sheep Oral Experimental BSE transmitted12, 13

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Sheep, genetically susceptible, 5g oral challenge with BSE-affected brain Similar list of tissues as for those assayed from orally challenged cattle, as described above 20 mice per tissue Intracerebral and intraperitoneal inoculation Lymphoid tissue*
study incomplete

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Piglets, inoculated with BSE-affected bovine brain14,15 Brain, spinal cord, muscle, lymph nodes, stomach, pancreas, spleen, thymus, liver, kidney 20 mice per tissue Intracerebral and intraperitoneal inoculation Brain, spinal cord, intestine, stomach, pancreas*

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Piglets, fed BSE-affected bovine brain16,17 Brain, spinal cord, muscle, lymph nodes, stomach, pancreas, spleen, thymus, liver, kidney 20 mice per tissue Intracerebral and intraperitoneal inoculation No detectable infectivity after 2 or 7 yrs

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Domestic fowl inoculated by the intracerebral route and challenged by the alimentary route with BSE-affected bovine brain16,17 Brain 20 mice per tissue Intracerebral and intraperitoneal inoculation No detectable infectivity*

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Domestic fowl inoculated with BSE-affected bovine brain Central Nervous System tissues Domestic fowl Intracerebral inoculation Studies not complete*

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List of Annexes

1 - Fraser H et al, Transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to mice.
Veterinary Record, 123, 472 (1988)
2 - Fraser H et al, Transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy and scrapie to mice.
Journal of General Virology, 73, 1891-1897 (1992)
3 - Fraser H et al, Transmission to mice, sheep and goats and bioassay of bovine tissues
In: Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies. Proceedings of a Consultation on BSE with the Scientific Veterinary Committee
of the Commission of the European Communities, 14-15 September 1993, (1994)
4 - Wrathall A E et al, Embryos and uterine flush fluids from cattle with bovine spongiform encephalopathy are not infective for mice.
Theriogenology, 47 (1) 384 (1997)
5 - Middleton. D.J. and Barlow, R.M. (1993)
Failure to transmit bovine spongiform encephalopathy to mice by feeding them with extraneural tissues of affected cattle
Veterinary Record, 132, 545 – 547 (1993)
6 - Taylor DM et al, Absence of disease in mice receiving milk from cows with bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
Veterinary Record 136, 592 (1995)
7 - Wrathall AE et al, Embryo transfer (ET) from cattle affected with bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE): preliminary report, Theriogenology, 41 (1), 337 (1994)
8 - Dawson M et al, Preliminary evidence of the transmissibility of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) to cattle.
Veterinary Record, 126, 112-113 (1990)
9 - Wells GAH et al, Infectivity in the ileum of cattle challenged orally with bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
Veterinary Record 135, 40-41 (1994)
10 - Wells GAH et al, Preliminary observations on the pathogenesis of experimental bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE): an update.
Veterinary Record 142, 103-106
11 - 11. Wells GAH et al, Limited detection of sternal bone marrow infectivity in the clinical phase of experimental bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), Veterinary Record, 144, 292-294 (1999)
12 - 12. Foster JD et al, Transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to sheep and goats
Veterinary Record, 133, 339 – 341 (1993)
13 - Foster JD et al, Detection of BSE infectivity in brain and spleen of experimentally infected sheep.
Veterinary Record, 138, 546 – 548 (1996)
14 - Dawson M et al, Primary parenteral transmission of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to the pig.
Veterinary Record, 127, 338-339 (1990)
15 - Ryder SJ et al, The Neuropathology of Experimental Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy in the Pig,
J. Comp. Pathol, 122, 131-143 (2000)
16 - Dawson M et al, Transmission studies of BSE in cattle, hamsters, pigs and domestic fowl.
Proceedings of a Seminar in the CEC Agricultural Research Programme held in Brussels, 12-14 November 1990, sponsored by the Commission of the European Communities Directorate-General for Agriculture, Division for the Co-ordination of Agricultural Research, Division for the Co-ordination of Agricultural Research, 25-32 (1991)
17 - Dawson M et al, Transmission studies of BSE in cattle, pigs and domestic fowl.
Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies. Proceedings of a Consultation on BSE with the Scientific Veterinary Committee of the Commission of the European Communities, 14-15 September 1993, Brussels, pp161-168 (1994)
* - Not published

 

[Mike]

This paper proves the feed transmission theory Tim. We've been trying to tell you this all along.

Going home to mix me a "Cocktail" now. Read the paper, you will get it.

 

[TimH]

Mike- "This paper proves the feed transmission theory Tim. We've been trying to tell you this all along."

I don't think so Mikey!! It might prove that if you drench calves with homogenate and then inject their tissues into mice, the mice will show infectivity.
It might prove that if you inject homogenated serum directly into a bovine's brain , it will later show infectivity.

But nowhere, in there,does it state that a bovine was fed a normal dose of infective material and later tested positive for BSE,using an accepted test. The transmissable through feed THEORY remains unproven.

 

[Mike]

Mike- "This paper proves the feed transmission theory Tim. We've been trying to tell you this all along."

I don't think so Mikey!! It might prove that if you drench calves with homogenate and then inject their tissues into mice, the mice will show infectivity.
It might prove that if you inject homogenated serum directly into a bovine's brain , it will later show infectivity.

But nowhere, in there,does it state that a bovine was fed a normal dose of infective material and later tested positive for BSE,using an accepted test. The transmissable through feed THEORY remains unproven.

Do you NOT see the column on the left that says 4 month old calves were orally fed 100 grams? There's your answer. Below it the calves' parts were inoculated into cattle brains and they got BSE from the calves that ate infected feed. Sheeesh, you just don't want to see it.

Now you're changing your story again, what's a normal dose? And what's an accepted test? Mouse bioassay is an accepted test. They just have faster ways of tesing now! That's ALL they had then. :???: :???: :???:

 

[Murgen]

I'm not sure what a normal dose is, but all herds involved so far, have had only one infected, so, maybe these so called scientists should be looking at what amount went into a batch of feed and trying to figure out what was fed to each animal in a herd?

We have had how many pratical examples of supposed feed transmission in North America. Trace the amount of contaminated feed, fed to how many, and you would have an idea of the exposure needed to cause one case. If it is transmitted through contaminated feed and no other factors are present.

What other factors could contribute?

 

[Mike]

I'm not sure what a normal dose is, but all herds involved so far, have had only one infected, so, maybe these so called scientists should be looking at what amount went into a batch of feed and trying to figure out what was fed to each animal in a herd?

We have had how many pratical examples of supposed feed transmission in North America. Trace the amount of contaminated feed, fed to how many, and you would have an idea of the exposure needed to cause one case. If it is transmitted through contaminated feed and no other factors are present.

What other factors could contribute?

Dawson and Wells fed 100 grams, 10 grams and 1 gram to 4 month old calves. They ALL contracted the disease but the incubation period was longer in the smaller doses. Key here is....... 4 month old calves.

 

[Murgen]

So, by your theory Mike, if we are not feeding the "at risk" parts to baby calves, all should be fine. We're doing that in Canada! Hope all is well in the US. Keeping by the standards, right?

 

[Mike]

Mike- "This paper proves the feed transmission theory Tim. We've been trying to tell you this all along."

I don't think so Mikey!! It might prove that if you drench calves with homogenate and then inject their tissues into mice, the mice will show infectivity.
It might prove that if you inject homogenated serum directly into a bovine's brain , it will later show infectivity.

But nowhere, in there,does it state that a bovine was fed a normal dose of infective material and later tested positive for BSE,using an accepted test. The transmissable through feed THEORY remains unproven.

I don't think so Mikey!! It might prove that if you drench calves with homogenate and then inject their tissues into mice, the mice will show infectivity

Tim you have all but made my point. Homogenate is only a mechanically blended medium of matter that allows it to be injected.

By drenching the calves with this homogenate of BSE infected material, then allowing the prions to infect the calves through the digestive system, proves without a doubt the feed transmission theory is a fact!

When you inject the tissues in a mouse and he comes down with BSE, it is a test Tim! Do you get it? An accepted test by the whole world! Bioassay of mice was the first BSE test and is as accurate as the tests we have today. Just slower. It was the only test in town.

Feed transmission is a fact guys! Get used to it! There are no other tests being conducted now because it has been proven to everyone! There is no need to prove the proven!