Gate problem

[dhannaman]

Having a problem with a rancher that has removed a cattle guard that was not his, it was put in 30 years ago. He decides put in a gate because he had words with 1 of the property owners out here. He put He put in I describe as a prison date Over a prescriptive easement That has been driven on consistently at least over 30 years. Not only has he put up this gate over our Flow of traffic on this road He's got 2 cameras and now he decides to put in an automatic gate opener because we were leaving it open and that made him mad and that inconvenienced him to have to come down and shut it Really. Now he put in a automatic gate opener only to benefit himself because for us to get out to go anywhere like work at 5:00 in the morning I have to still Get out of my car go in front of my car Go to the keypad put the code in that he put on the gate. & the gate opens towards your car. So now it Shut behind us of course so now he doesn't have to come down and shut it But he thinks he's doing us a favor putting a gate opener in it I don't see how he thinks that Who puts a gate opener in where you still have to get out of your car and have it come towards your car no one. Is doing this for vindictiveness and power trip. Needless to say Property owners that have been living out here for over 30 years He's only lived out here Not very long at all and he doesn't even live down here we're Are very irritated Now what he's done the latest thing one of the property renters out here shot at this steel gate & Of course he saw it through the camera because that's all he does is monitor that camera And call the sheriff's department and had him arrested and now is in jail. Just wanted Other ranchers know what this guy is doing it's making you guys look bad. For one this is illegal. I call this a prison gate because that's exactly what it looks like it's got 4 padlocks on it You need a code to get out or and get back into your property And there it's no reason for this except for his petty power tripping Crap and we're all fed up Because there are bobcats out here there are rattlesnakes there's javelina And I don't feel I should have to get out of my car until I'm at work. And I think it's wrong him watching everything we're doing coming and going and it's none of his business There's no cows down here And if there were he can put our cattle guard back in where it was But he claims it doesn't work that's funny they are used everywhere.

 

[Puzzled]

Was the cattle guard installed on the property he recently acquired ?

 

[jodywy]

"In Wyoming, a landowner can generally demand a gate in addition to a cattle guard if it is a reasonable measure to prevent livestock from escaping and does not unreasonably obstruct the access rights of others. This is especially relevant in "open range" territory where fences and gates are used to control livestock movement.
A landowner's right to install a gate depends on the specific legal situation, such as an easement or a public road." https://www.google.com/search?q=Wyoming+,+can+a+land+owner+demand+a+gate+over+a+cattle+gaurd.&oq=Wyoming+,+can+a+land+owner+demand+a+gate+over+a+cattle+gaurd.+&gs_lcrp=EgRlZGdlKgYIABBFGDkyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQ6wcYQNIBCTM0ODk3ajBqMagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Neighbor changed an easement before 40 acres , house barns were sold , by his neighbor. The new easement has 2 gates, one by the highway has a gate over a cattle guard. City water wells system , have a easement thru him , they use an automatic gate, You have to drive at it at the right angle depending on direction and it opens. See lot of gates here over cattle guards, Because of drifting and blowing snow. County digs cattle guard out every 2-3 years here too because of tumble weeds, weeds and blown in dirt.

 

[jodywy]

Leaving a gate open in Wyoming is a misdemeanor offense that can result in a fine of up to $750. It is illegal because it can cause livestock to escape, leading to potential damage, injury, or death, and can also be dangerous for public safety, particularly on public lands where it may create risks for both wildlife and drivers

 

[dhannaman]

Was the cattle guard installed on the property he recently acquired ?

No

 

[dhannaman]

Now he has added more padlocks, and is sign with the code on it also says residents only. For one we aren't residents We are property owners he is dictating who can come and go. Its a law in AZ a road that has been consistently driven on for over 10 yrs which has been over 30 or more yrs is called a prescriptive easement & also no-one can put up a gate that is impede the flow of traffic. So what he is doing is illegal. It all needs to be removed.

 

[webfoot]

Call a lawyer.

 

[DosArroyos]

Only thing an easement does is allow you to go over someone else's property to get to land that you own or rent.You don't get to say how many gates or cattle guards you have to go thru.He could put ten up if he wants.My suggestion would be for all of you behind the easement to get together and buy the man and his Wife's supper one night at a nice place and calmly talk about it after dinner.Then go from there.

It's a two way street.Things change over 30 years time.When you go to a lawyer you are going to find out he has way more rights than you do.And I would say especially if the easement was written 30 to 50 years ago,or more.Be careful what you do and say.

 

[Puzzled]

Other concern, maybe. Emergency access. Fire, ambulance, law enforcement etc.

 

[jodywy]

Other concern, maybe. Emergency access. Fire, ambulance, law enforcement etc.

seem area with public road that was inaccessible by fire trucks had keys to a locked gate on a private road, to get into the property from the top.

 

[webfoot]

If that is in fact a law in Arizona get a copy of it. Show it to him, chapter and verse. Explain to him that you don't want to get a lawyer but if forced to you will and he will lose because the law is on your side. There will be court costs, lawyer fees, and possibly punitive damages. But again that is if it is an actual law which you can find in black and white.

 

[DosArroyos]

This is what they make lawyers and courthouses for.

 

[dhannaman]

Was the cattle guard installed on the property he recently acquired ?

No not at all

 

[dhannaman]

If that is in fact a law in Arizona get a copy of it. Show it to him, chapter and verse. Explain to him that you don't a lawyer but if forced to you will and he will lose because the law is on your side. There will be court costs, lawyer fees, and possibly punitive damages. But again that is if it is an actual law which you can find in black and white.

Oh I already have it printed out & a just ask a lawyer told me the same thing.

 

[Older Whiskey]

Having a problem with a rancher that has removed a cattle guard that was not his, it was put in 30 years ago. He decides put in a gate because he had words with 1 of the property owners out here. He put He put in I describe as a prison date Over a prescriptive easement That has been driven on consistently at least over 30 years. Not only has he put up this gate over our Flow of traffic on this road He's got 2 cameras and now he decides to put in an automatic gate opener because we were leaving it open and that made him mad and that inconvenienced him to have to come down and shut it Really. Now he put in a automatic gate opener only to benefit himself because for us to get out to go anywhere like work at 5:00 in the morning I have to still Get out of my car go in front of my car Go to the keypad put the code in that he put on the gate. & the gate opens towards your car. So now it Shut behind us of course so now he doesn't have to come down and shut it But he thinks he's doing us a favor putting a gate opener in it I don't see how he thinks that Who puts a gate opener in where you still have to get out of your car and have it come towards your car no one. Is doing this for vindictiveness and power trip. Needless to say Property owners that have been living out here for over 30 years He's only lived out here Not very long at all and he doesn't even live down here we're Are very irritated Now what he's done the latest thing one of the property renters out here shot at this steel gate & Of course he saw it through the camera because that's all he does is monitor that camera And call the sheriff's department and had him arrested and now is in jail. Just wanted Other ranchers know what this guy is doing it's making you guys look bad. For one this is illegal. I call this a prison gate because that's exactly what it looks like it's got 4 padlocks on it You need a code to get out or and get back into your property And there it's no reason for this except for his petty power tripping Crap and we're all fed up Because there are bobcats out here there are rattlesnakes there's javelina And I don't feel I should have to get out of my car until I'm at work. And I think it's wrong him watching everything we're doing coming and going and it's none of his business There's no cows down here And if there were he can put our cattle guard back in where it was But he claims it doesn't work that's funny they are used everywhere.

If I may make a suggestion, please divide your long post into paragraphs. I was interested in what you posted, but find it impossible to read. Many of us are old here and a few are cranky like me. :ROFLMAO:

 

[dhannaman]

If I may make a suggestion, please divide your long post into paragraphs. I was interested in what you posted, but find it impossible to read. Many of us are old here and a few are cranky like me. :ROFLMAO:

Sorry, this problem has all of us property owners really frustrated and mad.

 

[Older Whiskey]

Sorry, this problem has all of us property owners really frustrated and mad.

I understand, and have in the past dealt with the same problem. I just found it hard to really understand all the information needed, before I could make an intelligent reply.

One story that comes to mind, was when I had a small ranch in the mountains of Eastern Oregon and bordered on 3 sides by Forest service land.

Whiskeygate 1980

One old neighbor put up a gate on a cattle guard that he deemed was on his private road although it was used by a place above him.

The young hand living above him on private land, did some serious drinking on his days off and came in at 1 PM with his loud old pickup with country music blasting. Since the old guy lived about 50 yards from the cattle guard, this woke him up. He put up the locked gate, after he saw the lad heading into town that afternoon, to deny the young hand entrance to where he was staying.

So that fine Saturday night, this young cowboy was met with a locked gate and not able to just race thru the cattle guard. The old guy, after hearing the hand yelling loudly and using language that would give the lad a good reason to attend church the next morning and have a chat with Jesus, went down to the gate with his pistol and confronted the young guy. The young guy threatened to disarm the old guy and break his arm. The old man discharged several shots in the air.

The old guy, said loudly "I am going to call the sheriff and have you thrown in jail for life,"

The lad replied, "Just where the hell do you think I just came from? Jail doesn't scare me one bit."

After hearing the shots, I got up and went tearing up to the scene of the altercation. About the same time, an older lady, a retired army drill sergeant turned rancher, that also heard the shots, arrived. She got out of her truck wielding her 38 and I got out with my short barrel, but legal, shotgun.

We asked what the problem was and both the old guy and the lad, agreed there was no problem and the gate would be removed. The older lady wore a belt buckle that said, "No one ever raped a 38." The young lady, one such as myself, while well known for great fences and well hinged barn doors, was rumored to be unhinged herself. Neither of these guys wanted to find out if the rumors were true.

 

[Older Whiskey]

@dhannaman I read thru your post again and I find it odd that no one has asked this "rancher" if he had a permit to remove a cattle guard that wasn't on his property. I would think county officials would be concerned he didn't get a permit to alter a public access road. Who maintains the road?

If I was in your situation, I would research county documents to see who is the custodian of the road. It sounds like you live in a rural subdivision and there will be legal documents on who has control of the road.

From what you say, he had no right to remove the cattle guard. He also has no right to put up cameras there. I would discuss this matter with your local sheriff. Find out what your rights are and enforce them. If the camera was installed illegally, then the sheriff would be the one to see it is removed.

If no livestock are on either side of the gate, then this rancher has no case for installing a gate or removing the cattle guard, since it isn't his property. He has the same right of use like everyone else that uses the road to get to their property.

If the "rancher" has no ownership or lease of the property where the cattle guard was, he violated the law. If crossing the cattle guard led to entering a county or state road, he had to have a permit which would include permission from the land owner. All that have legal access to use the road, would also have to be notified.

As I said, go to the county clerk and find out if he has any permits. If not talk to the DA and Sherriff. He committed a crime.

 

[dhannaman]

@dhannaman I read thru your post again and I find it odd that no one has asked this "rancher" if he had a permit to remove a cattle guard that wasn't on his property. I would think county officials would be concerned he didn't get a permit to alter a public access road. Who maintains the road?

If I was in your situation, I would research county documents to see who is the custodian of the road. It sounds like you live in a rural subdivision and there will be legal documents on who has control of the road.

From what you say, he had no right to remove the cattle guard. He also has no right to put up cameras there. I would discuss this matter with your local sheriff. Find out what your rights are and enforce them. If the camera was installed illegally, then the sheriff would be the one to see it is removed.

If no livestock are on either side of the gate, then this rancher has no case for installing a gate or removing the cattle guard, since it isn't his property. He has the same right of use like everyone else that uses the road to get to their property.

If the "rancher" has no ownership or lease of the property where the cattle guard was, he violated the law. If crossing the cattle guard led to entering a county or state road, he had to have a permit which would include permission from the land owner. All that have legal access to use the road, would also have to be notified.

As I said, go to the county clerk and find out if he has any permits. If not talk to the DA and Sherriff. He committed a crime.

No he didn't have any permit.been told by the sheriff's Department that we would have to file a civil lawsuit to get a judge to tell him to remove this gate.its been a nightmare. One of the few property owners called the Sheriff's department & reported the Stolen and they told them where it was at I guess he took it to his property the rancher He just had to bring it back & he put it In the bushes on the side of the road.

 

[Older Whiskey]

Who maintains the road?

Who owns the land where the cattle guard was removed?

After crossing the cattle guard, now gate, is that land private or public? Does it provide entry into a county or state road?

Who ever owns the land where the cattle guard was removed, is the one that should be taking action against this guy. If this land owner didn't give him permission, then you have a case but only if this land owner is willing to testify that this guy attached to his fence without permission.

Messing with someone's fence that isn't a shared ownership fence, is a no no in all the ranch country I have been in. Having right of passage to a shared road, doesn't give anyone the right to install a gate before notifying all involved and getting permission from the land owner to whom fence is being attached to.

I have family in Arizona that have been there since the last 1800s and the response from one cousin in real estate was, asking the three questions at the top of this post. She has been in court on many occasions over the same issue as you are facing.

When land is subdivided and the owners of the subdivision have right of way road easement, there should be documents that spell out who maintains the road. In most cases, landowner associations are formed and land owners pay into a fund for maintenance. Any big changes in the road require a meeting of all the landowners.

The thing is if you hire a lawyer, this is going to cost everyone a lot of money. If it were me, I would open the gate back to the attached fence and put a chain and lock on it. This would force the guy to cut your chain. That would constitute a crime and the sheriff could get involved. You have as much right to chain the gate open as he did to install it. A chain and lock does not constitute modifying the gate or fence. Just don't do anything to damage his gate or the fence.

Also what happened to the old cattle guard? That probably belonged to the land owner that owns the attached fence. If the guy still has it or disposed of it, then that raises a question because it wasn't his property.