PATB said:
Aaron said:
burnt said:
O.K., just to stir things up a bit - we have been told that some products have a greater negative impact on the beetles that break up the cow pies next summer due to residual effect. Ivomec supposedly leave a greater residue in the manure which in turn inhibits dung beetles while Dectomax doesn't have the same effect.
Thus, I use Ivomec in the fall and Dectomax in the spring.
Any other information or opinion on this out there?
Have not heard that about Dectomax. Only product I have heard approved for dung beetles is Cydectin, but then have also heard the complaint it doesn't work as well as the ivermectins.
After a lice outbreak on the cattle last winter, using Dectomax and Noromectin pour-ons, I switched entirely to Noromectin Plus injectable spring and fall. At least then I know the concentration they are getting is actually 'in' them, and not washing or dripping off.
We have used a ivermectin generic for years. The dung beetles have adapted to it or least local variety have. The downside is that I think stomach parasite(s) have become more immune to ivermectin product. Will treat whole cow herd in the spring with a safeguard paste to break parasite cycle. Lice do not seem to be a problem at this time.
I have worked some with Dr. Don Bliss one of the USA most knowledgeable
parasitologists. I will try to relay here some of what I learned.
All avermectin products are seeing an immunity build-up to the
product and are only about 50%
effective. When the companies research the avermectin products they
actually SHAVE the backs of the cattle in order to get the best results,
so as to have a marketing tool showing the effectiviness
of the product. When you use POUR-On
avermectins, they must go through the hair, the hide, the fat and into
the internals. They have lost much of their effacy through this
process. Ultimately, this has caused a parasite immunity, thus the products
no longer work as well as they should.
Lice and grubs are EASY to eliminate. However, regardless of the product
you use, the only way to really kill lice IS TO POUR THEM TWICE. You
need to get the sucking lice, and in two weeks get them again, as the
eggs have hatched in that time. Most of the time, pouring once works
good enough that producers don't get the cattle in and repour them.
But if you see an outbreak of lice after you have treated the cattle, it's because the cattle weren't poured
twice, not because of the failure of the product. Remember when Cydectin
had a 6 mo. lice guarantee? They no longer have that because the
government made them pull the guarantee, because it was a false claim.
At one time we had a friend that worked for Ft. Dodge and sold
Cydectin. She lost her job over the government making them pull the
6-month lice guarantee. It was simply a marketing tool. If the cattle broke
with lice, they just gave the producer more product. We had this
happen with Eprinex. We had the vet scrape the catte, and he said they
didn't have lice. He was wrong. They replaced the product with
Ivomectin and we re-poured the cattle.
The powers that be, that I am in contact with, say that Cydectin is
the worst of the bunch, that it is 'purple water.' They say that
in order to eleminate the most parasites, use SAFEGUARD. It works
differently than the avermectin products as it works on the metabolism
of the worm. Also, the most effective way to administer a dewormer is
OVER THE GUMS. Safeguard comes in a drench and in mineral. We have
used it for years, our customers use it and they are very satisfied.
When you use it in mineral, you don't have to gather the cows and you
can do it STRATEGICALLY, at the most opportune time to kill the worms.
You can use it in spring and it will help clean up your pastures. One of
our customers used it in last June three years in a row. He always runs
fecals to see if he needs to deworm and for the next two years, he
didn't need to deworm, as his pastures had been cleaned up. If you
use a mineral dewormer, don't worry if it takes them two weeks to
use it all up. Every time they take a bite of dewormer mineral, they
are killing worms and it actually is better to deworm over a longer
period of time, as to pour once, get a peak kill and then nothing.
Another thing that bears watching when de-worming, is not to do it
too early in the fall. If you preg-test and pour in Oct. and get some
nice weather, with moisture, those cows will re-infest and you've wasted
your money. Late Nov. or early Dec. is best in the northern climates.
Temperature and moisture cause worms to propagate and reinfest cattle.
If you are going to use an avermectin product, the shot works better
than the pour-on for getting worms. You can pour with just about
anything for lice and grubs. Dr. Bliss says that grubs are so easily killed
you can almost pass the avermectin over their back and it will get grubs.
People worry that all the cattle won't eat the mineral and not get
dewormed. To this, Dr. Bliss says, "would you rather treat 50% of
the cattle and kill 100% of the worms or treat 100% of the cattle
and get 50% of the worms?" Something to think about.
Dr. Bliss is Mid-America Labs and has done much research on parasites.
http://midamericaagresearch.net/research.php
http://midamericaagresearch.net/documents/AABP%20Parasite%20Resistance%202008.pdf
Hope this helps!
