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Chuckie

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i'm a hoosier by birth, boilermaker by the grace of god. it's good to hear from the old home state! talked to a good friend from college today who works as Notre Dame--she kinda chewed my butt for not coming home this year on vaca. said the weather was really nice-what we had yesterday, but we're sending clouds, maybe some rain for y'all tomorrow.

where's knightstown--i don't remember... i'm thinking it's south of bloomington and a little west, but could VERY WELL be wrong...
 

George

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Knightstown is about half way between Indianapolis and the Ohio line right on I70 Nice area where I have a Gravel pit and run a few cows
 

Chuckie

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yeah-that is pretty country for indiana--are there even any fence-rows left out there now-a-days?? you should be almost (but not quite) where the hills start, at least on the west side of the state.

most of my family is still there--Bluffton, Carmel, W. Lafayette..i'm gonna have to tear myself away from these hills and go see them sometime...

it's good to hook up with someone from the old home state though. and thanks for the input on fences, too!! later...
 

George

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When I came home from the Marines in 1971 every farm had a few cows - - now most of the fences are gone and only a few dihards like myself are keeping cows- - - the same with hogs - - only the large producers are in it any more. But I'm starting to see a few more cows since there is a little money to be made for a change. If you decide to come this way let me know and I'll be glad to show you my place. I'm working with Terrt Miller from Bluffton - - not any of your relation??
 

Chuckie

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never heard of terrt miller, but that don't mean much, i think there are millers all over the country! seems like there was a miller who was maybe a dentist (or an undertaker :) --yeah definitely an undertaker, i think....

anyway, i have a sister who's a pediatrician at the clinic in bluffton, so you may know her, or know somwone who does. i THINK she's ok at her job, at least she still seems to have a license :wink:

i'm being pressured to come back east next summer, but i'm thinking i'll reverse it and have the family come west to the great missouri river. but the pressure's pretty good, you never know!

i agree--in the 70's there were a few hogs, a few stock cows, etc. but they pulled all the fences since then, when i left in the early 90's, there was hardly even a wood lot left in the north 1/3 of the state. but it still looked better than illinios!
 

George

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I guess I need to proof read what I write - - - it is Terry Miller - - -fat fingers I guess. He has an internet business there ( Super Nova Communications). I took my wife and daughter and daughter's friend on a month long trip thru the west in June of 2002 and really opened the eyes of the two 12 year old girls - - they could not believe this country changes so much. It seems every area is beautiful in its own way.
 

Chuckie

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it's an awful big country, and even a grownup needs an eye-opener once in a while. i think maybe 12 yrs is a REALLY good age for a cross country vaca: they remember better.
the funny thing was, to me, when i was last in indiana, 5 yrs ago, i got really claustrophobic from all the trees!!! it was extremely weird, because i sure never noticed them before. when i went back, it was like they're all over the place, draping over all the roads, everywhere. and that was in the northern third of the state!! don't know if i could stand brown county or points south. PLUS, i think the southeastern part of this country is some of the most beautiful there is...
what has happened to me11 :shock: !!!!!!!!!
i guess i'll be ok to visit :)
but there a a gazillion millers around there-and that's not counting the amish people. i talk too much, but it's good to hear from a felloe hoosier, esp on this forum. c ya
 

George

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My daughter and I ( she is almost 16 now) love to take my Special edition Gold wing and just ride the winding tree lined roads of southern Indiana. Of the 3 hundred acres I own about 50 of it is pastured woods - - - I keep them thinned with a bull dozer and leave the good trees with sunny grass areas between. It is really beautiful looking at registered Charolais in that setting - - - I will breed to an Angus bull this year to try to break into the 4H calve market as the parents seem willing to pay any price for a "smoky" calf. It would probably break your heart watching me take trees out but an uncontroled area becomes nothing but a breeding ground for deer and coyotes.
 

Chuckie

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it might break my heart--but then again, i might say you need to get them all gone! that claustrophobia was one of the weirdest experiences of my life. i couldn't believe it OR get used to ALL THOSE TREES!! i'm not sure i could live out there any more...difinitely been transplanted!

though it would be awful pretty to see...BTW, 4Hr's aren't the only ones who like those black-nosed Chars.. i know of a packer-buyer or 2 who won't pass 'em given a chance and that's a POWERFUL cross to retain ownership on and sell on a grid if you're interested in maximizing $$....
 

George

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It seems that life is in cycles, I started crossing the charlois and angus in the 60s ( had black cows then and got a charlois bull) and then in the late 80s you took a great discount on them - - but now they are back - - 500# smoky claves are bringing $3,000.00 for fair calves and the ones that are not good enough for 4H are still bringing a great price to the feeder market. I used to feed out about 500 per year but now at the prices I feel my time is better spent letting somone else do it.
 

Hanta Yo

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We have Gelbvieh/Angus cross mother cows, AI'd to either Angus or Gelbvieh depending upon the percentage of the cow, used
charolais as clean-up. The Gelbvieh still beat out the Charolais. We retain ownership on the cattle so have been getting data for the last 12 years we've been here. We sold all the Charolais bulls.
 

George

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I am not familiar with the Gelbvieh breed but I will look into them - - - My current herd is registered Charlois - - I wonder how a cross of Gelbvieh bull to my girls would work????
 

PPRM

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I have had some Gelbvieh cross into my cattle. I really don't think it is a breed I'd look at against Charlais, but that goes to what I am trying to accomplish. I've had good luck feedign Charlais and Charlais cross cattle.I'd tend to look for some angus to cross them with, but that's me. I think with the gelbvieh on Charlais, you are crossing one size and growth breed with another. Might gain some on the heterosis, always a good thing.

I preface this with the fact I sent some straight Charlais to the packer and got mostly Choice YG 1's and 2's. There are some great individual cattle n the breed, but on average, you cross Charlais to help them with Quality Grade and get from them YG and growth/size. My experience anyway,

My ideal cross tends to be simmental and angus, I lkie the female traits being good enough to keep the heifers. But if you read my post for what it is, I have seen great calves done with a variety of breeds, I'm not stuck on anything,


PPRM
 

Hanta Yo

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I appreciate everyone's point of view, I just plain like to share. Here is some data on a Gelbvieh steer out of a TC Stockman daughter:

QG: CH, BFT: .19, RE: 15.6, HCW: 959, YG: 2, Profit: $231.00

CH X on Gelbvieh, I agree is crossing big on big, better to cross on Angus.

On all our steers Angus sired were 92% CH, 28% YG 2

GV sired were 50% CH, 80% YG 1 & 2

CH sired were 69% CH, 70% YG 1 & 2

We've been trying to breed Angus on Gelbvieh and Gelbvieh on Angus and used Chars to clean up. Got rid of the Chars tho. Now we're cleaning up with balancers.
 

DOC HARRIS

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George said:
My daughter and I ( she is almost 16 now) love to take my Special edition Gold wing and just ride the winding tree lined roads of southern Indiana. Of the 3 hundred acres I own about 50 of it is pastured woods - - - I keep them thinned with a bull dozer and leave the good trees with sunny grass areas between. It is really beautiful looking at registered Charolais in that setting - - - I will breed to an Angus bull this year to try to break into the 4H calve market as the parents seem willing to pay any price for a "smoky" calf. It would probably break your heart watching me take trees out but an uncontroled area becomes nothing but a breeding ground for deer and coyotes.
...AND . .uncontrollable brush fires and 'stunted' mature trees. That is what is the trouble with the forest fires here in the WEST - - many species of Conifer (pine) need fire to open the pine cones for seed germination. Too much "Smokey the "BARE". I hope the 'tree huggers' are going to eventually get some common sense. - - - -But don't hold your breath! They protect and protect and protect and refuse to let nature naturally thin out the undergrowth - - and then- - - -WHA-A-A-M-M-M! - -Just like Yellowstone several years ago. You are doing it right, George. Beautiful, too!
 

DOC HARRIS

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Hanta Yo said:
I appreciate everyone's point of view, I just plain like to share. Here is some data on a Gelbvieh steer out of a TC Stockman daughter:

QG: CH, BFT: .19, RE: 15.6, HCW: 959, YG: 2, Profit: $231.00

CH X on Gelbvieh, I agree is crossing big on big, better to cross on Angus.

On all our steers Angus sired were 92% CH, 28% YG 2

GV sired were 50% CH, 80% YG 1 & 2

CH sired were 69% CH, 70% YG 1 & 2

We've been trying to breed Angus on Gelbvieh and Gelbvieh on Angus and used Chars to clean up. Got rid of the Chars tho. Now we're cleaning up with balancers.
AH-HAH! NOW you are breeding REAL Heterosis into your herd!! Lee Leachman has some incredible results with his Balancers, and Phenotype and Genotype of those crosses will pop you eyes open! :shock: :shock: :shock: These cleaned up calves will really make a statement, Hanta Yo. Your steer results are marvelous, and so will your next calf crop! Good for you! If I sound enthusiastic for you - - it's because I am! :D :D
 

Chuckie

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and then there are those that cannot stand leachmen and his muttly crossbred bulls. let's just throw a mutt in with the cows and see what happens: there has to be something good come out of all that breeding!
 

Silver

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Good crossbreeding is what makes good commercial cattle. My favorite cross was blonde bulls on simmental cows. Made great mother cows, and fantastic weaning weights. I found a pic of our weaning calves on the Canadian Blonde website. http://www.airenet.com/canadianblondes/feedlot.html

That's from about 15 years ago now though.
 

Chuckie

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doc, you ever been east? sounds like you have a hard-on for something....the woods out there are not a bit like they are in the mountains of colorado.

calm down--some people aren't tree-huggers, ok? can we just raise beef cattle?
 

George

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In the 60s I raised black grade cows as that is what I was shown - - - then I returned from the Marines in 1971 and started farming on my own and purchased some registered Angus cows - - - I soon started crossing with Charlois bulls and feed them out myself - - - I also started going into tenn and georgia and buying calves and feeding part of them and reselling most to other feeders in the area. When a good market formed for registered Charlois I moved my herd to that and have had nothing but registered Charlois for over a decade and recieved a good premium for them. That market seems to be leaving and the smokey calves are bringing a large premium so I am going to breed my girls to registered Angus this year and see if I can't tap that market - - - I love the large frames and millking ability of the Charlois although I will be the first to admit they eat a lot of feed. This year I ended up with 9% of these big girls having tiwns and the twins grow great - - - I feel the reason for the twins is the better minerals and feed that we did not have the ability to feed several decades ago. Are the Smokey calves the best for your needs? I feel they are for me but then I have never had 100 cows at a time - - - normaly I have about 50 to 60 - - - available pasture is always changing around here as subdivisions take ground but then marginal row crop ground is taken out of row crops and put back into pasture and in many cases it is great pasture.
Are many of you experencing more twins than in the past??? My vet feels that limiting high protien feed for the last two weeks before breeding stimulates great conseption rates and possibly more twins - - - this does not mean starve them but do not " flush " them. Any ideas / I would like to get my twins up to 20% or better but I don't really expect to achieve this - - - if you don't set goals you will not improve and if you stay in your comfort level and the young pups coming on improve then you will find yourself falling back.
One of the bad side effects of the better feeds and mineral we are seeing here is that the deer are having most all twins and 5% or so are triplets - - - a single fawn on a doe is almost not seen in this area and the deer are becoming terrible pests - - - but then the do good Bambi lovers hate it when you open your land to hunters - - - I encourage hunting but require my hunters to take as many does as the law allows if they want to come back next year. I have been doing this for over 20 years but the deer are still gaining. It is not uncommon to sit on my front porch in the evening and see 30 to 40 deer competing with my cattle for feed.
 

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