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Gummer family friend Elizabeth Smith 23 dies of human form o

Tex your comments are well said.

The problem with the present "infectious prion hypothesis" is that the blame for the misfolding of the proteins and the destruction to tissue (brain and others) is being planted on a "new" "unknown" concept that shines the light only so far.

If you eat lead, lead will mess up your body, brain, and misfold proteins. Is the resulting health problems the result of a protein in your body, or the consumption of lead, see what I am saying? By labelling prion diseases as infectious it limits researchers in their abilities to study it, and, it prevents the finding of cause by a broader group of scientists who may specialize in toxicology rather than infection. It also prevents blame from be planted at the feet of those who will contaminate our environment with radionuclides and heavy metals for profit.

Lead fed to dogs was found to cause "spongiform" in the brain (1984) Dr. Amir Hamir - Hamir is presently working on CWD studies, but in doing so, he has failed (so far) to cross-over the scientific knowledge from this lead study to his new field, CWD.

To label a product "infectious" results in a certain type of concern, verses labelling the product "contaminated with a toxin". The transmissibility mechanisms of infectious agents is very different from the transmissibility of toxic agents; none-the-less they are both transmissible.

The feed ban while it may have reduced the metal exposures, it does not completely eliminate them. The passing of various compounds, amino acids, minerals etc. into the brain also requires specific transport mechanism - Under Normal Circumstances.... The treatment of the animal with chemicals, like Organophosphates (Phosmet in the UK) performs many biological tasks, including damaging the blood brain barrier making the brain a higher risk of contamination than under natural biological conditions.

There are other things which can make the feed ban theory less of an issue, this includes the 2001 Foot and Mouth outbreak in the UK which saw the destruction of hundreds of thousands of animals, including over 400,000 cattle - None of these animals were tested for BSE. We will never know if they were also victims born after the feed bans (BARBs). Or thrown over the brink by the Chernobyl fallout. To have tested them and found positives in these later born animals, would have thrown a huge monkey wrench in the FEED transmission theory.

Over thousands of years our biological evolutionary processes have adapted to natural exposure levels of radiation/radionuclides and heavy metals. It has sequestered these toxic metals in our bones, and teeth - surrounding the toxic metal particles with a calcium and phosphorous matrix called "Apatite". However, once man created products of fission which include such radionuclides as Iodine 131 and Cesium 137, our bodies had no way of handling these toxic products in a safe manner. The iodine 131 quickly concentrates in the thyroid gland; and the Cesium 137 concentrates in the meat. Strontium 90 goes to the bones and is commonly found (and even monitored by governments) in milk. Plant biology and uptake of these products is not that well studied, (at least openly), consumption of vegetables, fruits and other foods (besides meat) can expose people to these radionuclides. Internalization of these particles creates a different health scenario than outward exposure. If you inhale, inject, absorb or consume these products different parts of the body will be affected for each mode of transmission. Inhalation is one of the easiest routes to the blood and brain.

All this said, I believe that consumption of BSE contaminated meat is not the most efficent method of contamination. Inhalation of these toxic tiny nanoparticles (especially insoluble DU) creates a direct link to the blood stream. Ingestion processes are designed to protect us from toxins by such mechanisms as the one I described earlier (sequestering them in calcium/phosphorous matrix and storing them in the bone, or attaching them organic matter and it goes out the dirt shoot.) The problem is that the kidneys are getting plugged up with these larger apatite particles and they are creating different problems there, as well as inducting arthrosclerosis of the epithelial lining of the arteries (everywhere).

I suggest everyone look up "What are Calcifying Nanoparticles? (CNPs)" at the "Nanobac Life Sciences Inc." website:
http://www.nanobaclabs.com/content/what-are-cnps.htm


Very interesting stuff, and a huge correlation to PNCs (proteon nucleating centers) described by Dr. Vitaly Vodyanoy in Alabama. In fact, they use his Cytoviva microscope:
video of CNPs:
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/?epi-content=MULTIMEDIA_GALLERY_PUBLIC_VIEW&eid=5265147&newsLang=en
[click on the video format that works for your computer, to see how the video of Calcifying Nanoparticles being dissolved (melting away the apatite shell) and releasing their "nucleating agent"] Nanobac tries to claim that these nucleating agents are nanobacteria - that they are living. Well, time will tell. They do however, function in a manner that is very similar to radionuclides and much attentionis required in reading the various papers listed at their site. The one paper listed as most commonly debunking the nanobacteria hypothesis is:
"An Alternative Interpretation of Nanobacteria-induced biomineralization" by John O. Cisar et al. it is free on line, look it up.

In a similar fashion, Cisar states that this is a process of biomineralization and not bacteria. Mark Purdey's findings also demonstrate a process of biomineralization with manganese being one of the most commonly found metals involved in the prion crystals.

I'll have more on Nanobac and their apatite coateded particles later on. If you're truly interested in this you will be amazed at the similarities to prions discribed in "What are Calcifying Nanoparticles?" [link above].

Perhaps the only difference between a CNP and a prion is location of where these nucleating agents are found, ie: kidney/brain ?

Glad to see that there is interest, Tex.... Politics and science make bad bed fellows.
 
Thank you flounder for this
i am through with this thread
Can't understand the cut and paste job right afterward however.

And thank you Kathy for all of the rest of the information on this thread. Some day all of your hard work will be recognised.

Terry -If you would simply read some of what Kathy writes; let alone the books or studies that she recommends - you could see that there is more to the TSE story than Mad Cows. Can you not even see that transmission has always been part of the Purdy theory? If you were not so hung up on the unproven infectious prion theory, you could make a lot more headway.
 
rkaiser said:
Thank you flounder for this
i am through with this thread
Can't understand the cut and paste job right afterward however.
And thank you Kathy for all of the rest of the information on this thread. Some day all of your hard work will be recognised.

quote]



you can't understand it, because you and kathy refuse to. you want to blame something that has absolutely nothing to do with continued transmission. it's your industry that is responsible, and that is why you play this game. transmission studies do not lie, only politicians, and the very industry that put them in office do. i would say that probably 95% on this board understand that, only the 5% that want to try and shift the blame somewhere else through whatever means possible. you dont understand the transmission studies because you don't want to. and it's folks like you that will continue the spread of this agent, via ignorance and greed. ...thank you very much. ...tss
 
When you finally use your own words and not a cut and paste Terry - you truly show the asshole that you are. I thought you had given up on this thread. Why don't you go suck your thumb and cut and paste your BS somewhere else. We have all read your shirt over and over again and you bring nothing new.


Terry -
and it's folks like you that will continue the spread of this agent, via ignorance and greed. ...

What a blatant lie. You know damn well that I support testing for BSE and work hard at every Canadian Government level to push for it.

Your mother died Terry - get over it. My Dad died when I was 21 and I don't try to blame the world for it every day.

Cattle are not the only problem with TSE's and you are too pig headed to even look at any other option. That is true ignorance my friend.
 
rkaiser said:
When you finally use your own words and not a cut and paste Terry - you truly show the asshole that you are. I thought you had given up on this thread. Why don't you go suck your thumb and cut and paste your BS somewhere else. We have all read your s*** over and over again and you bring nothing new.


Terry -
and it's folks like you that will continue the spread of this agent, via ignorance and greed. ...

What a blatant lie. You know damn well that I support testing for BSE and work hard at every Canadian Government level to push for it.

Your mother died Terry - get over it. My Dad died when I was 21 and I don't try to blame the world for it every day.

Cattle are not the only problem with TSE's and you are too pig headed to even look at any other option. That is true ignorance my friend.


grow up rkaiser. i refuse to take the low road and start calling people names. sorry about your dad...............terry


p.s. happy birthday mom, today is your birthday, and we would have celebrated if not for your neglegent homicide, do to corporate and political greed. ...tss
 
Terry -
p.s. happy birthday mom, today is your birthday, and we would have celebrated if not for your negligent homicide, do to corporate and political greed. ...tss

No problem here blaming corporate or political greed Terry - just cows.

Terry -
grow up rkaiser. i refuse to take the low road and start calling people names.

Typical hypocrite response. I guess ignorant and greedy are not names in your righteous, book are they Terry? Sorry if you think asshole is a worse name to call someone.
 
WELL, i tried to end this thread, but kathy seems to have recruited old rkaiser here,
and rkaiser just cant seem to get enough of me, so i thought i might remind rkaiser of
a few proven facts on MBM he seems to have forgotten ;


Brief review on the epidemiology of transmissible
spongiform encephalopathies (TSE)
Marcus G. Doherr
Department of Clinical Veterinary Medicine, Vetsuisse Faculty, University of Bern, Bremgartenstrasse 109a,
P.O. Box 8466, 3001 Bern, Switzerland
Received 25 June 2006; accepted 30 October 2006
Available online 13 November 2006


snip...


As a consequence of the studies linkingMBM use in cattle
feed to BSE, the inclusion of MBM into ruminant feed was
banned in the UK in July 1988, and in Switzerland in December
1990. These bans in both countries resulted in a significant
reduction of new infections in cattle born after their implementation,
thereby highlighting the importance of controlling
this exposure route [34].However, the relatively large number
of BSE cases born after those bans indicated that, despite the
feed ban in place, BSE infectivity — to some extent – was
still reaching cattle. These cases, subsequently denoted as
born-after-the-ban (BAB) and born-after-the-reinforced (UK
in 1996) ban (BARB), documented the presence of other
infection routes besides direct (legal) inclusion of MBM in
cattle concentrates. Cross-contamination of cattle feed with
feed for pigs and poultry during production, transportation
or storage, and cross-exposure of cattle to pig or poultry
feed on mixed-species farms were suspected as additional
routes [35–37]. More recently, insufficiently heated bone
meal and tallow used in concentrate feeds and milk replacers
has been suggested as an additional source of BSE infectivity
[38,39].
The measures such as the MBM bans currently implemented
in Europe, as shown by intensive surveillance
with over 40 million animals (clinical suspects, emergencyslaughtered
and fallen cattle as well as healthy-slaughtered
adult cattle) tested between January 2002 and September
2005, have resulted in a constant decline of the BSE epidemic
at least in the old EU member states (Fig. 2) [18]. It is
to be expected that the epidemic will phase out in countries
with sufficiently implemented control measures. This, due to
the long incubation time of the disease, will require time.


snip...end


October 2007 Update on Feed Enforcement Activities to Limit the Spread of BSE


http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=53149


http://www.fda.gov/cvm/BSE1007.htm



10,000,000+ LBS. of PROHIBITED BANNED MAD COW FEED I.E. MBM IN COMMERCE USA 2007



END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR MARCH 21, 2007



http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2007/ENF00996.html



MORE 2006 FEED BAN VIOLATIONS BELOW, ''IN COMMERCE'' ;


Subject: MAD COW FEED RECALL USA SEPT 6, 2006 1961.72 TONS IN COMMERCE AL,
TN, AND WV
Date: September 6, 2006 at 7:58 am PST

PRODUCT
a) EVSRC Custom dairy feed, Recall # V-130-6;
b) Performance Chick Starter, Recall # V-131-6;
c) Performance Quail Grower, Recall # V-132-6;
d) Performance Pheasant Finisher, Recall # V-133-6.
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Donaldson & Hasenbein/dba J&R Feed Service, Inc., Cullman, AL, by telephone
on June 23, 2006 and by letter dated July 19, 2006. Firm initiated recall is
complete.
REASON
Dairy and poultry feeds were possibly contaminated with ruminant based
protein.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
477.72 tons
DISTRIBUTION
AL
______________________________
PRODUCT
a) Dairy feed, custom, Recall # V-134-6;
b) Custom Dairy Feed with Monensin, Recall # V-135-6.
CODE
None. Bulk product
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Recalling Firm: Burkmann Feed, Greeneville, TN, by Telephone beginning on
June 28, 2006.
Manufacturer: H. J. Baker & Bro., Inc., Albertville, AL. Firm initiated
recall is complete.
REASON
Possible contamination of dairy feeds with ruminant derived meat and bone
meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
1,484 tons
DISTRIBUTION
TN and WV


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00968.html




Subject: MAD COW FEED RECALLS ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR AUGUST 9, 2006 KY, LA,
MS, AL, GA, AND TN 11,000+ TONS
Date: August 16, 2006 at 9:19 am PST

RECALLS AND FIELD CORRECTIONS: VETERINARY MEDICINE - CLASS II
______________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk custom made dairy feed, Recall # V-115-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Hiseville Feed & Seed Co., Hiseville, KY, by telephone and letter on or
about July 14, 2006. FDA initiated recall is ongoing.
REASON
Custom made feeds contain ingredient called Pro-Lak which may contain
ruminant derived meat and bone meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
Approximately 2,223 tons
DISTRIBUTION
KY

______________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk custom made dairy feed, Recall # V-116-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Rips Farm Center, Tollesboro, KY, by telephone and letter on July 14, 2006.
FDA initiated recall is ongoing.
REASON
Custom made feeds contain ingredient called Pro-Lak which may contain
ruminant derived meat and bone meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
1,220 tons
DISTRIBUTION
KY

______________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk custom made dairy feed, Recall # V-117-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Kentwood Co-op, Kentwood, LA, by telephone on June 27, 2006. FDA initiated
recall is completed.
REASON
Possible contamination of animal feed ingredients, including ingredients
that are used in feed for dairy animals, with ruminant derived meat and bone
meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
40 tons
DISTRIBUTION
LA and MS

______________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk Dairy Feed, Recall V-118-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Cal Maine Foods, Inc., Edwards, MS, by telephone on June 26, 2006. FDA
initiated recall is complete.
REASON
Possible contamination of animal feed ingredients, including ingredients
that are used in feed for dairy animals, with ruminant derived meat and bone
meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
7,150 tons
DISTRIBUTION
MS

______________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk custom dairy pre-mixes, Recall # V-119-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Walthall County Co-op, Tylertown, MS, by telephone on June 26, 2006. Firm
initiated recall is complete.
REASON
Possible contamination of dairy animal feeds with ruminant derived meat and
bone meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
87 tons
DISTRIBUTION
MS

______________________________
PRODUCT
Bulk custom dairy pre-mixes, Recall # V-120-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Ware Milling Inc., Houston, MS, by telephone on June 23, 2006. Firm
initiated recall is complete.
REASON
Possible contamination of dairy animal feeds with ruminant derived meat and
bone meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
350 tons
DISTRIBUTION
AL and MS

______________________________
PRODUCT
a) Tucker Milling, LLC Tm 32% Sinking Fish Grower, #2680-Pellet,
50 lb. bags, Recall # V-121-6;
b) Tucker Milling, LLC #31120, Game Bird Breeder Pellet,
50 lb. bags, Recall # V-122-6;
c) Tucker Milling, LLC #31232 Game Bird Grower,
50 lb. bags, Recall # V-123-6;
d) Tucker Milling, LLC 31227-Crumble, Game Bird Starter, BMD
Medicated, 50 lb bags, Recall # V-124-6;
e) Tucker Milling, LLC #31120, Game Bird Breeder, 50 lb bags,
Recall # V-125-6;
f) Tucker Milling, LLC #30230, 30 % Turkey Starter, 50 lb bags,
Recall # V-126-6;
g) Tucker Milling, LLC #30116, TM Broiler Finisher,
50 lb bags, Recall # V-127-6
CODE
All products manufactured from 02/01/2005 until 06/20/2006
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Recalling Firm: Tucker Milling LLC, Guntersville, AL, by telephone and visit
on June 20, 2006, and by letter on June 23, 2006.
Manufacturer: H. J. Baker and Brothers Inc., Stamford, CT. Firm initiated
recall is ongoing.
REASON
Poultry and fish feeds which were possibly contaminated with ruminant based
protein were not labeled as "Do not feed to ruminants".
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
7,541-50 lb bags
DISTRIBUTION
AL, GA, MS, and TN

END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR AUGUST 9, 2006

###


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ENFORCE/2006/ENF00964.html


Subject: MAD COW FEED RECALL MI MAMMALIAN PROTEIN VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN
COMMERCE 27,694,240 lbs
Date: August 6, 2006 at 6:14 pm PST
PRODUCT
Bulk custom dairy feds manufactured from concentrates, Recall # V-113-6
CODE
All dairy feeds produced between 2/1/05 and 6/16/06 and containing H. J.
Baker recalled feed products.
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Vita Plus Corp., Gagetown, MI, by visit beginning on June 21, 2006. Firm
initiated recall is complete.
REASON
The feed was manufactured from materials that may have been contaminated
with mammalian protein.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
27,694,240 lbs
DISTRIBUTION
MI


END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR AUGUST 2, 2006

###


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00963.html


Subject: MAD COW FEED RECALL AL AND FL VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE 125
TONS Products manufactured from 02/01/2005 until 06/06/2006
Date: August 6, 2006 at 6:16 pm PST
PRODUCT
a) CO-OP 32% Sinking Catfish, Recall # V-100-6;
b) Performance Sheep Pell W/Decox/A/N, medicated,
net wt. 50 lbs, Recall # V-101-6;
c) Pro 40% Swine Conc Meal -- 50 lb, Recall # V-102-6;
d) CO-OP 32% Sinking Catfish Food Medicated,
Recall # V-103-6;
e) "Big Jim's" BBB Deer Ration, Big Buck Blend,
Recall # V-104-6;
f) CO-OP 40% Hog Supplement Medicated Pelleted,
Tylosin 100 grams/ton, 50 lb. bag, Recall # V-105-6;
g) Pig Starter Pell II, 18% W/MCDX Medicated 282020,
Carbadox -- 0.0055%, Recall # V-106-6;
h) CO-OP STARTER-GROWER CRUMBLES, Complete
Feed for Chickens from Hatch to 20 Weeks, Medicated,
Bacitracin Methylene Disalicylate, 25 and 50 Lbs,
Recall # V-107-6;
i) CO-OP LAYING PELLETS, Complete Feed for Laying
Chickens, Recall # 108-6;
j) CO-OP LAYING CRUMBLES, Recall # V-109-6;
k) CO-OP QUAIL FLIGHT CONDITIONER MEDICATED,
net wt 50 Lbs, Recall # V-110-6;
l) CO-OP QUAIL STARTER MEDICATED, Net Wt. 50 Lbs,
Recall # V-111-6;
m) CO-OP QUAIL GROWER MEDICATED, 50 Lbs,
Recall # V-112-6
CODE
Product manufactured from 02/01/2005 until 06/06/2006
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Alabama Farmers Cooperative, Inc., Decatur, AL, by telephone, fax, email and
visit on June 9, 2006. FDA initiated recall is complete.
REASON
Animal and fish feeds which were possibly contaminated with ruminant based
protein not labeled as "Do not feed to ruminants".
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
125 tons
DISTRIBUTION
AL and FL


END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR AUGUST 2, 2006

###


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00963.html


Subject: MAD COW FEED RECALL KY VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE ?????
Date: August 6, 2006 at 6:19 pm PST
PRODUCT
Bulk custom made dairy feed, Recall # V-114-6
CODE
None
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
Burkmann Feeds LLC, Glasgow, KY, by letter on July 14, 2006. Firm initiated
recall is ongoing.
REASON
Custom made feeds contain ingredient called Pro-Lak, which may contain
ruminant derived meat and bone meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
?????
DISTRIBUTION
KY
END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR AUGUST 2, 2006

###


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00963.html


CJD WATCH MESSAGE BOARD
TSS
MAD COW FEED RECALL USA EQUALS 10,878.06 TONS NATIONWIDE
Sun Jul 16, 2006 09:22
71.248.128.67


RECALLS AND FIELD CORRECTIONS: VETERINARY MEDICINE -- CLASS II
______________________________
PRODUCT
a) PRO-LAK, bulk weight, Protein Concentrate for Lactating Dairy Animals,
Recall # V-079-6;
b) ProAmino II, FOR PREFRESH AND LACTATING COWS, net weight 50lb (22.6 kg),
Recall # V-080-6;
c) PRO-PAK, MARINE & ANIMAL PROTEIN CONCENTRATE FOR USE IN ANIMAL
FEED, Recall # V-081-6;
d) Feather Meal, Recall # V-082-6
CODE
a) Bulk
b) None
c) Bulk
d) Bulk
RECALLING FIRM/MANUFACTURER
H. J. Baker & Bro., Inc., Albertville, AL, by telephone on June 15, 2006 and
by press release on June 16, 2006. Firm initiated recall is ongoing.
REASON
Possible contamination of animal feeds with ruminent derived meat and bone
meal.
VOLUME OF PRODUCT IN COMMERCE
10,878.06 tons
DISTRIBUTION
Nationwide

END OF ENFORCEMENT REPORT FOR July 12, 2006

###


http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/enforce/2006/ENF00960.html


Subject: MAD COW FEED BAN WARNING LETTER ISSUED MAY 17, 2006
Date: June 27, 2006 at 7:42 am PST
Public Health Service
Food and Drug Administration

New Orleans District
297 Plus Park Blvd.
Nashville, TN 37217

Telephone: 615-781-5380
Fax: 615-781-5391


May 17, 2006

WARNING LETTER NO. 2006-NOL-06

FEDERAL EXPRESS
OVERNIGHT DELIVERY

Mr. William Shirley, Jr., Owner
Louisiana.DBA Riegel By-Products
2621 State Street
Dallas, Texas 75204

Dear Mr. Shirley:

On February 12, 17, 21, and 22, 2006, a U.S. Food & Drug Administration
(FDA) investigator inspected your rendering plant, located at 509 Fortson
Street, Shreveport, Louisiana. The inspection revealed significant
deviations from the requirements set forth in Title 21, Code of Federal
Regulations, Part 589.2000 [21 CFR 589.2000], Animal Proteins Prohibited in
Ruminant Feed. This regulation is intended to prevent the establishment and
amplification of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE). You failed to
follow the requirements of this regulation; products being manufactured and
distributed by your facility are misbranded within the meaning of Section
403(a)(1) [21 USC 343(a)(1)] of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act
(the Act).

Our investigation found you failed to provide measures, including sufficient
written procedures, to prevent commingling or cross-contamination and to
maintain sufficient written procedures [21 CFR 589.2000(e)] because:

You failed to use clean-out procedures or other means adequate to prevent
carryover of protein derived from mammalian tissues into animal protein or
feeds which may be used for ruminants. For example, your facility uses the
same equipment to process mammalian and poultry tissues. However, you use
only hot water to clean the cookers between processing tissues from each
species. You do not clean the auger, hammer mill, grinder, and spouts after
processing mammalian tissues.

You failed to maintain written procedures specifying the clean-out
procedures or other means to prevent carryover of protein derived from
mammalian tissues into feeds which may be used for ruminants.

As a result . the poultry meal you manufacture may contain protein derived
from mammalian tissues prohibited in ruminant feed. Pursuant to 21 CFR
589.2000(e)(1)(i), any products containing or may contain protein derived
from mammalian tissues must be labeled, "Do not feed to cattle or other
ruminants." Since you failed to label a product which may contain protein
derived from mammalian tissues with the required cautionary statement. the
poultry meal is misbranded under Section 403(a)(1) [21 USC 343(a)(1)] of the
Act.

This letter is not intended as an all-inclusive list of violations at your
facility. As a manufacturer of materials intended for animal feed use, you
are responsible for ensuring your overall operation and the products you
manufacture and distribute are in compliance with the law. You should take
prompt action to correct these violations, and you should establish a system
whereby violations do not recur. Failure to promptly correct these
violations may result in regulatory action, such as seizure and/or
injunction, without further notice.

You should notify this office in writing within 15 working days of receiving
this letter, outlining the specific steps you have taken to bring your firm
into compliance with the law. Your response should include an explanation of
each step taken to correct the violations and prevent their recurrence. If
corrective action cannot be completed within 15 working days, state the
reason for the delay and the date by which the corrections will be
completed. Include copies of any available documentation demonstrating
corrections have been made.

Your reply should be directed to Mark W. Rivero, Compliance Officer, U.S.
Food and Drug Administration, 2424 Edenborn Avenue, Suite 410, Metairie,
Louisiana 70001. If you have questions regarding any issue in this letter,
please contact Mr. Rivero at (504) 219-8818, extension 103.

Sincerely,

/S

Carol S. Sanchez
Acting District Director
New Orleans District


http://www.fda.gov/foi/warning_letters/g5883d.htm



USDA FSIS SRM TSE QUARTERLY ENFORCEMENT REPORT UPDATE

http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0702&L=sanet-mg&D=1&H=1&P=10713


http://www.prwatch.org/node/4541


Subject: Experimental BSE Infection of Non-human Primates: Efficacy of the Oral Route
Date: September 29, 2007 at 12:50 pm PST

P04.27

Experimental BSE Infection of Non-human Primates: Efficacy of the Oral Route


Holznagel, E1; Yutzy, B1; Deslys, J-P2; Lasmézas, C2; Pocchiari, M3; Ingrosso, L3;
Bierke, P4; Schulz-Schaeffer, W5; Motzkus, D6; Hunsmann, G6; Löwer, J1
1Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, Germany; 2Commissariat à l´Energie Atomique, France; 3Instituto
Superiore di Sanità, Italy; 4Swedish Institute for Infectious Disease control, Sweden;
5Georg August University, Germany; 6German Primate Center, Germany


Background:

In 2001, a study was initiated in primates to assess the risk for humans
to contract BSE through contaminated food. For this purpose, BSE brain was
titrated in cynomolgus monkeys.


Aims:

The primary objective is the determination of the minimal infectious dose (MID50)
for oral exposure to BSE in a simian model, and, by in doing this, to assess the risk for
humans. Secondly, we aimed at examining the course of the disease to identify
possible biomarkers.


Methods:


Groups with six monkeys each were orally dosed with lowering amounts of
BSE brain: 16g, 5g, 0.5g, 0.05g, and 0.005g. In a second titration study,
animals were intracerebrally (i.c.) dosed (50, 5, 0.5, 0.05, and 0.005 mg).


Results:


In an ongoing study, a considerable number of high-dosed macaques already
developed simian vCJD upon oral or intracerebral exposure or are at the onset of the
clinical phase. However, there are differences in the clinical course between orally and
intracerebrally infected animals that may influence the detection of biomarkers.


Conclusions:


Simian vCJD can be easily triggered in cynomolgus monkeys on the oral
route using less than 5 g BSE brain homogenate. The difference in the incubation
period between 5 g oral and 5 mg i.c. is only 1 year (5 years versus 4 years). However,
there are rapid progressors among orally dosed monkeys that develop simian vCJD as
fast as intracerebrally inoculated animals.


The work referenced was performed in partial fulfilment of the study "BSE in primates"
supported by the EU (QLK1-2002-01096).


http://www.prion2007.com/pdf/Prion%20Book%20of%20Abstracts.pdf


look at the table and you'll see that as little as 1 mg (or 0.001 gm) caused
7% (1 of 14) of the cows to come down with BSE;


Risk of oral infection with bovine spongiform encephalopathy agent in
primates

Corinne Ida Lasmézas, Emmanuel Comoy, Stephen Hawkins, Christian Herzog,
Franck Mouthon, Timm Konold, Frédéric Auvré, Evelyne Correia, Nathalie
Lescoutra-Etchegaray, Nicole Salès, Gerald Wells, Paul Brown, Jean-Philippe
Deslys
Summary The uncertain extent of human exposure to bovine spongiform
encephalopathy (BSE)--which can lead to variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease
(vCJD)--is compounded by incomplete knowledge about the efficiency of oral
infection and the magnitude of any bovine-to-human biological barrier to
transmission. We therefore investigated oral transmission of BSE to
non-human primates. We gave two macaques a 5 g oral dose of brain homogenate
from a BSE-infected cow. One macaque developed vCJD-like neurological
disease 60 months after exposure, whereas the other remained free of disease
at 76 months. On the basis of these findings and data from other studies, we
made a preliminary estimate of the food exposure risk for man, which
provides additional assurance that existing public health measures can
prevent transmission of BSE to man.


snip...


BSE bovine brain inoculum

100 g 10 g 5 g 1 g 100 mg 10 mg 1 mg 0·1 mg 0·01 mg

Primate (oral route)* 1/2 (50%)

Cattle (oral route)* 10/10 (100%) 7/9 (78%) 7/10 (70%) 3/15 (20%) 1/15 (7%)
1/15 (7%)

RIII mice (ic ip route)* 17/18 (94%) 15/17 (88%) 1/14 (7%)

PrPres biochemical detection

The comparison is made on the basis of calibration of the bovine inoculum
used in our study with primates against a bovine brain inoculum with a
similar PrPres concentration that was

inoculated into mice and cattle.8 *Data are number of animals
positive/number of animals surviving at the time of clinical onset of
disease in the first positive animal (%). The accuracy of

bioassays is generally judged to be about plus or minus 1 log. ic
ip=intracerebral and intraperitoneal.

Table 1: Comparison of transmission rates in primates and cattle infected
orally with similar BSE brain inocula


Published online January 27, 2005

http://www.thelancet.com/journal/journal.isa


LETS start with the UKBSEnvCJD only theory, lets look at UK exports to USA, Canada, and Mexico.
the imported only theory. ...



1994 UK EXPORTS BEEF VEAL USA , MEXICO $ CANADA ONLY
other Countries list in PDF file)

USA -------- TOTALS ''8'' TONS
CANADA -- TOTALS ''29'' TONS

1995 UK EXPORT BEEF AND VEAL TO USA AND CANADA

USA ------- TOTALS ''358'' TONS

CANADA --TOTALS ''24'' TONS

BONE-IN BEEF AND VEAL

USA-------- TOTALS ''10'' TONS (i think this is part of the 358 tons
above?)

UK EXPORT OF LIKE CATTLE TO USA AND CANADA

1986 TO 1996 USA TOTAL = 1297

1986 TO 1996 CAN TOTAL = 299

http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/mb/m11f/tab10.pdf


UK EXPORT MEAT OR OFFAL OF BOVINE ANIMALS DEC 1987

CANADA -- 64,526 KG

UK EXPORT OFFALS OF BOVINE ANIMALS FRESH CHILLED
OR FROZEN OTHER THAN LIVER DEC 1987 YTD

USA -- 45,943 KG

UK EXPORT MEAT OF BOVINE ANIMAL WITH BONE IN 1988

CANADA -- 4,163 KG

PREP OR PRES MEAT OR OFFAL OF BOVINE ANIMALS CUMULATIVE
TO DEC 1988

USA -------- 28,609 KG
CANADA -- 22,044 KG

MEAT OF BOVINE ANIMALS WITH BONE IN CUMULATIVE TO ANUAL 1989

USA -------- 17,880 KG
MEXICO---- 33,444 KG

BONELESS MEAT OF BOVINE 1989

USA --------111,953 KG
CANADA---1,800 KG
MEXICO --- 1,143,387 KG

EDIBLE OFFAL OF BOVINE ANIMALS 1989

USA -------- 19,980 KG
MEXICO--- 31,244 KG

MORE........

MEAT OF BOVINE ANIMALS BONELESS 1990

USA 146,443


http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/mb/m11g/tab05.pdf




UK Exports of Live Cattle by Value 1986-96

USA 697 LIVE CATTLE

CANADA 299 LIVE CATTLE

http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/mb/m11f/tab11.pdf



UK TABLE of Exports of meal of meat and meat offal; greaves 1979 - 1995

USA 24 TONS

CANADA 83 TONS

http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/mb/m12/tab12.pdf



HOWEVER, my files show 44 tons of greaves for USA. ...TSS



Subject: Re: exports from the U.K. of it's MBM to U.S.???
From: [email protected].
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:03:16 +0000
To: [email protected] (Receipt Notification Requested) (Non Receipt Notification Requested)

Terry Meat and bonemeal is not specifically classified for overseas trade purposes. The nearest equivalent
is listed as flours and meals of meat or offals (including tankage), unfit for human consumption; greaves.
UK exports of this to the US are listed below:

Country Tonnes

1980
1981 12
1982
1983
1984 10
1985 2
1986
1987
1988
1989 20
1990

Data for exports between 1975 and 1979 are not readily available. These can be obtained (at a charge)
from data retailers appointed by HM Customs and Excise: BTSL (Tel: 01372 463121) or Abacus (01245 252222).

Best wishes Simon Pearsall Overseas trade statistics Stats (C&F)C

====================================== END...TSS



BSE GBR RISK ASSESSMENTS, USA, CANADA, AND MEXICO




EFSA Scientific Report on the Assessment of the Geographical BSE-Risk (GBR) of the United States of America (USA)


Summary of the Scientific Report

The European Food Safety Authority and its Scientific Expert Working Group on the Assessment of the Geographical Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) Risk (GBR) were asked by the European Commission (EC) to provide an up-to-date scientific report on the GBR in the United States of America, i.e. the likelihood of the presence of one or more cattle being infected with BSE, pre-clinically as well as clinically, in USA. This scientific report addresses the GBR of USA as assessed in 2004 based on data covering the period 1980-2003.

The BSE agent was probably imported into USA and could have reached domestic cattle in the middle of the eighties. These cattle imported in the mid eighties could have been rendered in the late eighties and therefore led to an internal challenge in the early nineties. It is possible that imported meat and bone meal (MBM) into the USA reached domestic cattle and leads to an internal challenge in the early nineties.

A processing risk developed in the late 80s/early 90s when cattle imports from BSE risk countries were slaughtered or died and were processed (partly) into feed, together with some imports of MBM. This risk continued to exist, and grew significantly in the mid 90's when domestic cattle, infected by imported MBM, reached processing. Given the low stability of the system, the risk increased over the years with continued imports of cattle and MBM from BSE risk countries.

EFSA concludes that the current GBR level of USA is III, i.e. it is likely but not confirmed that domestic cattle are (clinically or pre-clinically) infected with the BSE-agent. As long as there are no significant changes in rendering or feeding, the stability remains extremely/very unstable. Thus, the probability of cattle to be (pre-clinically or clinically) infected with the BSE-agent persistently increases.


http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/573.html



http://www.efsa.europa.eu/





EFSA Scientific Report on the Assessment of the Geographical BSE-Risk (GBR) of Canada


Summary of the Scientific Report

The European Food Safety Authority and its Scientific Expert Working Group on the Assessment of the Geographical Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) Risk (GBR) were asked to provide an up-to-date scientific report on the GBR in Canada, i.e. the likelihood of the presence of one or more cattle being infected with BSE, pre-clinically as well as clinically, in Canada. This scientific report addresses the GBR of Canada as assessed in 2004 based on data covering the period 1980-2003.

The BSE agent was probably imported into the country middle of the eighties and could have reached domestic cattle in the early nineties. These cattle imported in the mid eighties could have been rendered in the late eighties and therefore led to an internal challenge in the early 90s. It is possible that imported meat and bone meal (MBM) into Canada reached domestic cattle and led to an internal challenge in the early 90s.

A certain risk that BSE-infected cattle entered processing in Canada, and were at least partly rendered for feed, occurred in the early 1990s when cattle imported from UK in the mid 80s could have been slaughtered. This risk continued to exist, and grew significantly in the mid 90's when domestic cattle, infected by imported MBM, reached processing. Given the low stability of the system, the risk increased over the years with continued imports of cattle and MBM from BSE risk countries.

EFSA concludes that the current GBR level of Canada is III, i.e. it is confirmed at a lower level that domestic cattle are (clinically or pre-clinically) infected with the BSE-agent. As long as the system remains unstable, it is expected that the GBR continues to grow, even if no additional external challenges occur.



http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/science/tse_assessments/gbr_assessments/564.html



http://www.efsa.europa.eu/






EFSA Scientific Report on the Assessment of the Geographical BSE-Risk (GBR) of Mexico


Last updated: 8 September 2004 Publication Date: 20 August 2004

Adopted July 2004 (Question N° EFSA-Q-2003-083)


Summary of the Scientific Report

The European Food Safety Authority and its Scientific Expert Working Group on the Assessment of the Geographical Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) Risk (GBR) were asked by the European Commission (EC) to provide an up-to-date scientific report on the GBR in Mexico, i.e. the likelihood of the presence of one or more cattle being infected with BSE, pre-clinically as well as clinically, in Mexico. This scientific report addresses the GBR of Mexico as assessed in 2004 based on data covering the period 1980-2003.

The BSE agent was probably imported into Mexico and could have reached domestic cattle. These cattle imported could have been rendered and therefore led to an internal challenge in the mid to late 1990s. It is possible that imported meat and bone meal (MBM) into Mexico reached domestic cattle and leads to an internal challenge around 1993.

It is likely that BSE infectivity entered processing at the time of imported 'at - risk' MBM (1993) and at the time of slaughter of imported live 'at - risk' cattle (mid to late 1990s). The high level of external challenge is maintained throughout the reference period, and the system has not been made stable. Thus it is likely that BSE infectivity was recycled and propagated from approximately 1993. The risk has since grown consistently due to a maintained internal and external challenge and lack of a stable system.

EFSA concludes that the current geographical BSE risk (GBR) level is III, i.e. it is likely but not confirmed that domestic cattle are (clinically or pre-clinically) infected with the BSE-agent. The GBR is likely to increase due to continued internal and external challenge, coupled with a very unstable system.



http://www.efsa.europa.eu/



http://www.efsa.europa.eu/



love and hugs to rkaiser et al :wink:
 
"Animal Pharm" by the late Mark Purdey, www.markpurdey.com

"The Petkau Effect" by Ralph Graeub

"Secret Fallout" by Ernest Sternglass

J Comp Pathol. 1984 Apr;94(2):215-31. Links
Neuropathological lesions in experimental lead toxicosis of dogsHamir AN, Sullivan ND, Handson PD.
Light microscopical examinations were carried out on the central and peripheral nervous systems of 9 dogs maintained on a high-fat-low-calcium diet and dosed orally with a mixture of lead chloride, lead bromide and lead sulphate. Microscopic lesions were present in 7 (78 per cent) of the lead-treated dogs. Cerebrocortical lesions comprising spongiosis, vascular hypertrophy and gliosis predominated. These lesions were bilateral, had a predilection for gyri and were located mainly in the parietal and frontal cortex. There were bilaterally symmetrical spongiform changes in the brain stem. The cerebellum had spongiform changes in the roof nuclei and in the lingula there was spongiosis of the Purkinje cell layer and vacuolation of Purkinje cells. Axonal degeneration was evident in a sciatic nerve of one dog. In a second experiment, designed to study the early ultrastructural changes in the brains of dogs with lead intoxication, 2 groups of dogs, one on a commercial balanced diet and the other fed a high-fat-low-calcium diet, were given similar amounts of lead. Cytoplasmic accumulation of lipid was found in the cerebrovascular pericytes of all dogs treated with lead but vascular changes were otherwise not obvious. Quantitative evaluation of numbers of blood vessels by light microscopy revealed an apparent increase in all dogs receiving lead. This increase in vascularity was greatest in the dogs fed the high-fat-low-calcium diet.

PMID: 6736309

]Folia Neuropathol. 2005;43(4):229-43. Links
Neurodegeneration and oxidative stress: prion disease results from loss of antioxidant defence.
Brown DR.
Department of Biology and Biochemistry, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK. [email protected]

Prion diseases or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) are rare neurodegenerative disorders that can be acquired either by direct transmission, inherited through dominant mutations in the prion protein gene or via an unknown sporadic cause. This latter group constitutes the vast majority of cases. Like many neurodegenerative diseases the hallmarks of oxidative damage can be readily detected throughout the brain of the affected individual. However, unlike most other neurodegenerative diseases, prion diseases are connected with a dramatic loss of antioxidant defence. As abnormal protein accumulates in the diseased brain there is both an increase of oxidative substances and a loss of the defences that keep them in check. In particular the normal cellular prion protein has been shown to be an antioxidant. Conversion of this protein to the protease resistant isoform is accompanied by a loss of this antioxidant activity. This change creates a paradox as the loss of activity is not accompanied by a loss of protein expression. It is likely that this prevents other cellular defences from responding sufficiently to protect neurons from the heightened oxidative burden. Recent experiments with transgenic mice have shown that when prion protein expression is switched off during the course of prion disease, cell death is dramatically halted and the mouse recovers from the disease. This result clearly illustrates that the continued expression of non-function prion protein is essential for disease progression. This implies that the presence of this abnormal protein during prion disease causes a failure of cellular antioxidant defence. This failed defence is the fundamental cause of the massive neurodegeneration that results in the fatal nature of TSEs. The role of oxidative stress in TSEs and other neurodegenerative disorders are discussed in this review.

PMID: 16416388
 
It appears that this debate will go on and on. Whether or not a young girl developed vCJD due to the inhilation of DU particles or from TSE contaminated meat will be a worthwhile debate indeed. But, let us talk about the potential for the development of the disease in this girl from either source.

First of all, the DU being monitors in the Middle East could also be the remnants from the A-10 Warthog airstrikes. Their particular weapons array consisted of DU warheads on their .50 Cal. Cannons. As to whether or not there was enough DU spent there to migrate into the lungs of known vCJD patients in another discussion altogether???

As for the young girl, I find it purely coincidental that she lived close to the areas known or alledgedly known to contain DU particles. For a human to contact vCJD strickly from the inhilation of DU particles is immensely rare as to be virtually impossible by medical standards used today. To basically state that the DU contamination was and is the only possible cause of this poor young girls death would be wrong at this point as we would most certainly see many other children sick and near death there if that was the case. I find it necessary to make this statement as it appears that every death of anyone, anywhere, that is caused by any form of TSE is being announced as being caused by DU and this is simply not the case. Whether it be copper or the lack there-of or some other abundance or lack of another specified metal, we cannot be sure. The science surrounding TSE's is fairly young yet and the jury is still working on the cases. Give it time and we shall all see and let me be clear now - I would not be surprised is metals, like Mark Purdey suggests, is playing a major role but we cannot simply just label all deaths as being attributed to coincidental locations such as old army or airforce bases. That would not be good science although we would certainly place that info into the mix for consideration along with all of the other data being accumulated.

Let us not forget how many millions of tons of TSE contaminated meat was consumed within the UK prior to the fire pits being filled with the carcasses of those that were diagnosed. Perhaps that meat may have had something to do with it????
 
Don't misquote me,

I am saying that DU is a factor that some people won't look at, and others, like flounder, completely dismiss.

FACT, exposure to DU (and other radionuclides) will cause the immune systems defense mechanisms to eventually fail, especially in a nutritionally deficient person. What future does this hold for the people of Iraq and Afganastan who had the "radioatomicity" (meaning if all the uranium used there was atomized) equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs used on them. Of course, not all of this DU was atomized. The Bunker Busters which can contain upwards of 5,000 pounds of DU almost entirely atomize, while the bullets you speak of from A10 Warthogs leave substantial portions of metal behind (depending on what they hit). Children playing with these spent rounds are coming down with leukemia within a year, or grotesque tumors.

You can be sure, that more was used than admitted to. Nobody is keeping faithful tract of where DU goes.

As for inhalation in England, it is a matter of pushing the limits of the immune system. ALL EXPOSURES matter. Since the UK is a hotbed of nuclear activity, some 21+/- reactors and don't forget Sellafield, the reprocessing facility which emits an equivalent amount of radiation (this is a quote from Leuren Moret) of 365 reactors in one location. The UK is not very big, everyone lives near some nuclear facility. So exposures must be quantified. A person that runs will inhale more than someone that doesn't. Individual differences in health status, nutrition and exposures spare some, while not others.

Take into account the massive exposure to radionuclides, exposure to large amounts of lead in the environment, then take the Phosmet and pour it on some poor cows back. You have now set up the immune system to fail, the OPs will: extract the radionuclides and other heavy metals from the MBM, and the from within the cow's body parts, chelate copper, it will upregulate prion protein production and open the blood-brain barrier.

Still with all of that, researchers must homogenate and pretreat brain tissue from a BSE affected animal, then injected this (highly un-natural material) directly into the stomach, or most commonly, directly into the brain of an experimental animal victim. Even with these extra-ordinary lab transmission procedures.... not every animal developes a TSE.

Organic cows were allowed to use 20% meat and bone meal in their rations, but Mark states no organic animal developed BSE except a few that were treated with Phosmet. A dairy cow, or should I say, a high milker, is more susceptible because of the draw on the calcium in the bones.

In MBM feed trials, no animal ever developed BSE. This is utilizing MBM as made by normal cattle feeding practices. Transmission experiments do not reflect reality of the cattle feeding business, nor the reality of human consumption of meat products. They reflect "iatrogenic" transmission.

There are many ways to chemically mimic the "ionizing radiation" effect within the body. It is the combined exposure to these biohazards that will impair the immune system.

It is important to note, in the Petkau Effect book, Dr. Abram Petkau explains that "external exposure" could be remedied by treatment of the "fresh cow brain phopsholipid" membrane by the addition of SOD enzymes. However, when the radiation exposure was "internal" (with tritium - radioactive hydrogen), the SOD enzymes could NOT stop the progression of destruction caused to the membrane.

The internal radiation source caused a cascade effect of free radical degeneration of the phospholipid membranes that over-whelmed the free-radical scavenging abilities of this important anti-oxidant. The prion protein does act similar to SOD, and the biomineralization of these phospholipids does not take place unless the protein is IRREVERSIBLY attached to the cell membrane. A copper loaded prion protein is healthy and will perform its functions, moving in and out of the membrane. A prion protein contaminated with other metals like manganese, vanadium, nickle, uranium, lead ETC. will not function properly and it can adhere "irreversibly" to the cell membrane - setting up the possibility of biomineralization of the cell membrane, and cell death.

When the cell dies, new cells must come from the bone marrow to replace the dead ones. If the bone marrow and blood is contaminated with DU and other heavy metals - but especially with a radioactive heavy metals, the chances of it making it to the brain are slim.

The dead brain cells must be eliminated from their location. White blood cells and macrophages must transport these dead cell components to the kidneys or to the dirt shoot (colon)..... A similar problem takes place within the white blood cells as the brain cells, the radiological and heavy metal effect destroys them too. Over time, the immune system, waste disposal mechanisms, and bone marrow stem cells are depleted to the point the disease quickly and irreversibly takes over.

Understanding the cause of the disease, is the only hope for developing a response that can cut off the oxidative and radiological damage before its too late. By the time symptoms show up, most of the destruction has already happen. The only way to prevent this disease is to eliminate (as much as humanly possible) introduction of the chemicals and metals that mimic or cause "ionizing radiation".

Building more nuclear facilities will only increase the levels of radiation in the atmosphere, yet, here in Alberta and Saskatchewan (Canada), the Atomic Agencies (the real madmen) want to build reactors and refineries for uranium (presently the only refinery in Canada is in Port Hope, ON) - guaranteeing a future for the Canadian Cattle Industry that is no different from that of the UK or Japan.

It's bad enough we have foreign military testing cruise missiles and other methods of destuction on Canadian soil, we have waste incinerators like Swan-Hills dumping this s*** into the air, and we have the BLACK GOLD, that is also very capable of causing the release of radiation - both metals and those chemicals that mimic it.

It is about balance, so said our AB Premier last night. Well the balance has long since tipped the scales to the point of environmental and physical destruction..... the time to clean up our ACT is NOW. Time to slow down the engine, or we will be over-heated and burned out (permanently).
 
Kathy said:
Don't misquote me,

I am saying that DU is a factor that some people won't look at, and others, like flounder, completely dismiss.

FACT, exposure to DU (and other radionuclides) will cause the immune systems defense mechanisms to eventually fail, especially in a nutritionally deficient person. What future does this hold for the people of Iraq and Afganastan who had the "radioatomicity" (meaning if all the uranium used there was atomized) equivalent of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs used on them. Of course, not all of this DU was atomized. The Bunker Busters which can contain upwards of 5,000 pounds of DU almost entirely atomize, while the bullets you speak of from A10 Warthogs leave substantial portions of metal behind (depending on what they hit). Children playing with these spent rounds are coming down with leukemia within a year, or grotesque tumors.

quote]


does not cause mad cow TSEs kathy;


BSE BASE MAD COW TESTING TEXAS, USA, AND CANADA, A REVIEW OF SORTS


http://madcowtesting.blogspot.com/


MADCOW USDA the untold story

http://madcowusda.blogspot.com/



MADCOW USDA the untold story continued

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6472149427883113751&postID=4829467681293855400



USA NOR-98 SCRAPIE UPDATE AUGUST 31, 2007 RISES TO 5 DOCUMENTED CASES


http://nor-98.blogspot.com/


Government Accountability Project




https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3995372399492420922&postID=295754279213239559





Transmissible Mink Encephalopathy TME

http://transmissible-mink-encephalopathy.blogspot.com/



TME hyper/drowsy, INTER-SPECIES TRANSMISSION CWD and strain
properties



https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=37955408&postID=116577315153980667


USA NVCJD BLOOD RECALLS ONLY ;


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=CJD+BLOOD+RECALLS+TSS&btnG=Search


vCJD case study highlights blood transfusion risk


http://vcjdblood.blogspot.com/


CREUTZFELDT JAKOB DISEASE MAD COW BASE, CWD, SCRAPIE UPDATE OCT 2007


http://cjdmadcowbaseoct2007.blogspot.com/


ABSTRACTS SPORADIC CJD AND H BASE MAD COW ALABAMA AND TEXAS SEPTEMBER 2007

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:31:55 -0500



I suggest that you all read the data out about h-BASE and sporadic CJD, GSS,
blood, and some of the other abstracts from the PRION2007. ...



http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0709&L=sanet-mg&T=0&F=&S=&P=19744





*** PLEASE READ AND UNDERSTAND THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THIS !!! THE PRICE OF
POKER INDEED GOES UP. ...TSS

USA BASE CASE, (ATYPICAL BSE), AND OR TSE (whatever they are calling it
today), please note that both the ALABAMA COW, AND THE TEXAS COW, both were
''H-TYPE'', personal communication Detwiler et al Wednesday, August 22, 2007
11:52 PM. ...TSS



http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0708&L=sanet-mg&T=0&P=19779



From: "Terry S. Singeltary Sr."
Subject: CWD UPDATE 88 AUGUST 31, 2007


http://lists.ifas.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0709&L=sanet-mg&T=0&P=450




PLEASE NOTE IN USA CJD UPDATE AS AT JUNE 2007, please note steady increase
in ''TYPE UNKNOWN''. ...TSS


1 Acquired in the United Kingdom; 2 Acquired in Saudi Arabia; 3 Includes 17
inconclusive and 9 pending (1 from 2006, 8
from 2007); 4 Includes 17 non-vCJD type unknown (2 from 1996, 2 from 1997, 1
from 2001, 1 from 2003, 4 from 2004, 3
from 2005, 4 from 2006) and 36 type pending (2 from 2005, 8 from 2006,

*** 26 from 2007)



http://www.cjdsurveillance.com/pdf/case-table.pdf




TSS
 
Flounder, why don't you write one of your letters to the USDA and ask them to experiment by injecting uranyl ions into the brains of cows.... I could do the same here (CFIA)....

We could wait around for another few years to see if the cow develops BSE. Or we could look at the facts about metal contamination of the prion protein, and the role of the Petkau Effect on phospholipid membranes (not just in the brain).

One little experiment using cows, with adequate copper intake, versus those copper deficient could settle the problem.

Another control, could have cows that are treated with Phosmet or a similar Organophosphate - since the manufacture simply can't remember just how they made Phosmet... they lost their records...
 
Kathy,

You say, "Don't misquote me."

I would say you are misquoting yourself or at the very least, putting forward wrong information.

Kathy wrote:

The Bunker Busters which can contain upwards of 5,000 pounds of DU almost entirely atomize, while the bullets you speak of from A10 Warthogs leave substantial portions of metal behind (depending on what they hit). Children playing with these spent rounds are coming down with leukemia within a year, or grotesque tumors.

The Bunker Buster's you mention do not - DO NOT - contain any DU whatsoever. The ones used in Irag were the BLU-113 and BLU 122/A launched from various platforms. They contain an explosive mixture made up of 80% TNT and 20% Aluminum Powder. When these two elements are mixed and contained in a fusable warhead used in the so-called "Bunker Buster's" the explosive force released is known as a "Brisant Explosive" which can deliver approximately 18% more explosive power than TNT alone.

This Brisant is referring to the effect that the addition of the aluminum powder has on the "Brisance" of the TNT which allows it in turn through the effect to deliver such an enhanced explosive force and a resulting shock-wave of the explosive force that is formed by the addition of the aluminum powder to the TNT providing for an excellerated explosive force which, in turn, allows bunker buster missiles to penetrate up to 100 Ft. into earth and up to 20 ft. into concrete.

But there is NO DU in them - period, so before you use this argument as part of your DU/metal theories, please be sure of what you speak about. As for children playing with spent warheads fired from A-10 Warthogs - give me a break. There is by the very nature of the explosive force exerted upon the round upon impact, nothing left for children to play with but you give the impression they are playing with intact shells or fragments thereof. Again, you are misleading readers here with your comments.
 
BSE tester, who do you believe when you make these statements (what is your source of info).....


Bunker busters, cruise missiles, bullets and bombs manufactured from DU are being used in Iraq, Afganastan, Kosovo, Bosnia

Major Doug Rokke has information at the website http://www.traprockpeace.org/bunker_busters_kilpatrick.html

Do you really think that a "bunker buster" without the heavy weight of lead, tungsten or DU would "penetrate" very far. TNT and Aluminum do not have the mass behind them to penetrate deep into anything.

"We believe that this technology has a number of applications…, two
components to replace rhenium metals, which are used in the National
Missile Defense Program, two components to be used for a new
generation of earth penetrators and replacing depleted uranium." [quote:
ANTHONY MULLIGAN, PRESIDENT, ADVANCED CERAMICS RESEARCH] at above website.
 
" As for children playing with spent warheads fired from A-10 Warthogs - give me a break. There is by the very nature of the explosive force exerted upon the round upon impact, nothing left for children to play with"

BSE TESTER - this statement alone, causes you to lose ALL CREDIBILITY with me.

IF the rounds hit sand, they don't fracture and burn.
Dr. Siegwart-Horst Gunther was fined 3000 DM and sent to jail for months for bringing home ONE DU round which he found children in Iraq playing with on the street.

You have shown your cards, BSE-TESTER..... game over.
 
Kathy, I do not wish to get into a stupid match with you. Some of the comments you have posted here are beyond wrong - they are extremely misleading and yet you cite one instance of a child allegedly found playing with a spent shell containing residue from a DU coated shell. Of course, this is an alleged incident without any supporting documentation. As for your comments that I challenged regarding 5000 lbs of DU being used in Bunker Busters, you conveniently choose not to comment after being shown to be wrong. Give your head a shake Kathy. It matters not whether or not I am unaware of one incident in which it is alleged that a child was reportedly - allegedly - found playing with a spent shell - an incident that cannot be proven but a case wherein a man known to be an ardent anti-nuke protester not only in Germany but in Israel and Kosovo in the past (yes Kathy, I do know how to conduct fruitful research) was fined for being in possession of classified material obtained within a war zone.

You have obviously become the victim of your own ignorance and yet you chose to try to make an example of me. Too funny. As for losing credibility with you - fogive me for not losing any sleep tonight over that!!
 
No, don't loose any sleep over what I might say.... As an person living in Alberta you should be loosing sleep over Bill 46, and how the Feds and our Provincial government are "planning by stealth" to force nuclear reactors into Alberta. Looks as though the Feds think splitting the CANDU reactor business off, and partnering with SNC Lavalin and GE sound like good business. Alberta and Saskatchewan don't want this crap, stay the hell out of here. Saskatchewan has enough blood on its hands, providing the uranium for bombs and other weapons. Those that want these powerplants, are either ignorant of the facts, greedy or have turned a blind eye.

DU rounds found in Iraq, Kosovo and other nations that NATO or the USA and allies have bombed, often are solid uranium, not just coated. It is a perfect way to dispose of a 'problem' waste product from the nuclear industry. The same industry that wants to position itself in Alberta, so that it can sell 500 reactors to China and other nations.

Ignoring the evidence that DU munitions have caused devastating illness and death, by saying that evidence given is biased because the doc is antinuclear is proposterous. Are the sick children and people of these countries crazy antinuclear protestors too?

Are the people and doctors shown in "Chernobyl Heart" just crazy antinuke protestors. The teenagers that are shipped to Minsk to have their thyroids removed, the children with faulty heart valves, the ones that now pack the mental institutes and orphanages. When you compare their illnesses with those of Iraq, there are striking similarities.

I have seen enough DVD's from various countries, including one put together by Dr. Chris Busby of the UK. I choose not to ignore the evidence that this industry is toxic and it should be scrapped.

Like many scientists and others (we are all similar), it is usually when one is retired and has made a living off a toxic product, before the light is shed on the problems. The first generation of nuclear scientists, like Dr. Ernest Sternglass, and Marion Fulk are moving forward with science that shows just how bad the nuclear industry is.... we ignore them, at the expense of many generations, not just ours.

I would like a complete list of weapons used in Iraq, Afganastan and the other countries mentioned. You seem to know where to find this information, I'd appreciate having the same opportunity to look at what is claimed was or wasn't used.
 
I would like to point out that bse-tester has errored in stating the following about "bunker busters":

But there is NO DU in them - period, so before you use this argument as part of your DU/metal theories, please be sure of what you speak about. As for children playing with spent warheads fired from A-10 Warthogs - give me a break. There is by the very nature of the explosive force exerted upon the round upon impact, nothing left for children to play with but you give the impression they are playing with intact shells or fragments thereof. Again, you are misleading readers here with your comments.

I hope your BSE test kit will be more accurate than your above statement.

USA patent application 6,601,517
Granted August 5, 2003
Filed October 31, 2001
Super-cavitating penetrator warhead
Abstract
The present invention comprises a warhead for penetrating hardened or buried targets. In general, the invention comprises a warhead for penetrating hardened or buried targets comprising a warhead that employs a super-cavitating nose along with a cellular structural design that uses a reinforced central post as the main load-bearing component and subdivides the explosive cavity into shorter sections. Also, initiation means for initiating the explosives are present.
Inventors: Guirguis; Raafat H. (Fairfax, VA)
Assignee: The United States of America as representd by the Secretary of the Navy (Washington, DC)

[quick quotes from this patent 6,601,517]:

Claims:

10. The warhead of claim 9, wherein the ballast comprises depleted uranium.

DESCRIPTION OF THE PREFERRED EMBODIMENT

The invention, as embodied herein, comprises a warhead for penetrating hardened or buried targets. In the military, this type of warhead is known as a "bunker buster" for its ability to penetrate concrete bunkers or bunkers buried in sand.

…… [further down]:

A preferred embodiment of the invention also comprises a ballast in a cavity formed behind the super-cavitating nose. The ballast helps provide more target penetration by concentrating missile mass more near the nose of the warhead. Any heavy mass material may be used for the ballast and may be selected by one skilled in the art. One preferred ballast material is depleted uranium.

In another preferred embodiment of the invention, the warhead comprises a length of from about 8 feet to about 16 feet and a diameter of from about 10 inches to about 16 inches.

As I stated earlier, the mass required by some (not necessarily all) bunker busters is a vital aspect of the invention. The inventor and assignee have stated in their patent that depleted uranium (DU) is the PREFERRED BALLAST.

It is preferred because of its weight, but more importantly, DU is pyrophoric which means during the explosion, the DU particles will ignite creating an even bigger fire-ball.

Bse-tester stated:

Kathy, I do not wish to get into a stupid match with you. Some of the comments you have posted here are beyond wrong - they are extremely misleading and yet you cite one instance of a child allegedly found playing with a spent shell containing residue from a DU coated shell. Of course, this is an alleged incident without any supporting documentation. As for your comments that I challenged regarding 5000 lbs of DU being used in Bunker Busters, you conveniently choose not to comment after being shown to be wrong.

I did not comment right away Ron, because I was so upset with your remarks. You went out of your way to try to discredit me and you threw out the efforts of those fighting against the use of DU weapons, as you would throw out the garbage.

It took me less than two minutes to find this USA patent on bunker busters with depleted uranium (as a preferred ballast material). This is a USA Navy patent.

A bunker buster being 16 feet long by 16 inches – for argument's sake – made completely of DU would weigh 26,624 pounds. That's twenty-six thousand, six hundred and twenty-four pounds, Ron. An actual bunker buster of this dimension could easily contain 5,000 pounds of DU, if not more.

You then went on to suggest that just because someone, like Dr. Gunther, is against nuclear weapons – everything he says is "unproven" (a lie). You accused the documentaries made on the subject, eg: "The Doctor, The DU and The Children" (including Dr. Gunther and Dr. A. Durasovic) as being undocumented (staged), and you deny that children in Iraq have been found playing with spent (solid) DU rounds from A-10 warthogs.

Bse-testers stated:

Give your head a shake Kathy. It matters not whether or not I am unaware of one incident in which it is alleged that a child was reportedly - allegedly - found playing with a spent shell - an incident that cannot be proven but a case wherein a man known to be an ardent anti-nuke protester not only in Germany but in Israel and Kosovo in the past (yes Kathy, I do know how to conduct fruitful research) was fined for being in possession of classified material obtained within a war zone.

There is a interview with Dr. Gunther from 1995 at this link: http://southmovement.alphalink.com.au/antiwar/depleted.htm
This link shows a picture of a spent DU round, which is similar to the ones children continue to find in Iraq and other war zones. Kosovo is at least trying to clean them up.

Why are the spent DU shells "classified material"? Once the weapons are released into the environment (especially in another country), how is it that these materials are classified?

In the documentary with Dr. Gunther, analysis of the spent round [which he managed to get back to Germany in a diplomatic pouche], showed that it contained U236, meaning the uranium came from a facility that reprocesses spent fuel rods from nuclear reactors. A common practice for the Department of Energy or Commission Energy Atomique is to give away the waste uranium to military weapons manufacturing companies.

Bse-tester you stated "Kathy, I do not wish to get into a stupid match with you". This is such a stereo-typical comment Ron; attach the messenger not the message. While you have tried to show that some types of missiles used by the military do not contain DU, you over-stepped your fruit-full research, when you stated that (re: bunker busters) "there is NO DU in them – period". You gave a false positive.

If the US Navy patented a bunker buster which preferentially uses depleted uranium as its ballast, then you can be sure it has been tested out and used.
 
As I pointed out Kathy, I do not wish to get into a stupid match with you but you obviously do so here goes.

I was referring to the bunker busters used in the Gulf War (1992) but you chose to over look that part of my statement.

Kathy wrote:

Why are the spent DU shells "classified material"? Once the weapons are released into the environment (especially in another country), how is it that these materials are classified?

Germany considers DU to be a classified material in the sense that citizens are not allowed to be in possession of it and that my dear Kathy, is why Gunther was arrested in the first place. But then, who the hell cares anyway?? No sleep lost here tonight over one German activist who cannot even declare his sources properly.

But to appease your sense of diplomacy - I am only aware of one country that is actually stupid/insane enough to use DU incorporated in Bunker bombs and that country is Israel. Of course, they purchase the DU from the USA. So, who you gonna blame now?? But before you start in on me Kathy for making false positives here, I was only discussing the Gulf War BB bombs as indicated by the models and the fact that I did explain their contents very clearly. If you feel it inecessary to try to make me out to be spewing false info, then go right ahead. I care not to get into a pissing contest with you as I most certainly do know what the outcome would be. You continue to amaze us all with your deluge of facts and figures (some of which I really like and enjoy reading) but this forum is about ranching and the concerns of ranchers, producers of livestock and farmers who work the land. I doubt they care much about the effects of depleted uranium on Afgans but they sure as hell care about the health of their herds and how best thay can get their product to market.

Before you take this the wrong way, please be aware that we all hate the fact that there is a war going on and that there are materials out there that will likely cause harm to those on the ground in theater. But that war, no matter how dirty it is or gets Kathy, has nothing to do whatsoever with how the average producer of beef is going to get his or her product to market or what is discussed on this board. Rhetoric and insults have no place here and certainly will not serve any of us so please, will you get off this topic of DU as I can tell you straight, what bearing does it have on the price of beef???? One last comment:

You mention that everyone in England lives close to a Nuke Reactor. Not true. I lived there for 21 years Kathy and your comments insinuate that all Brits are in danger from the effects of Nuke Reactors. Let me tell you that I have many friends and even family that have lived and worked their entire lives there and the only real danger they are in is from fast food!!! Hell, my aunt lived to be 105 and she smoked her entire life. The nearest nuke pant was almost a 100 miles from my home there and it posed no danger whatsoever. So before you propose to know what life was or is like in the UK, wear the shoes of one who really knows from over 20 years of living there. Basically Kathy, your crusade against DU is a remarkable one and I am not taking it lightly believe me. You make [some] great statements and good arguments against the use of DU in war zones. But is this really the right forum for it??? I and others think that it is not.
 

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