Hancock Horses question

[MoodyMare]

HUhu, I am new (really *g) and I really would like to know more about Hancock horses. I have heard different stories, some people say: oh typical hancock, others never heard of them before saying I am crazy or make my horse look *different* which is not true at all.
I have never met someone else with my horses ancestry nor have I talked to someone who has/had Hancock horses, but still I hear interesting things about them.
This question comes because of my horse beeing the class clown of the barn, he does not respect dominance of person or horse, nor does he do on button klick what you want from him. I have to work in a total different way with him what I have never learned before growing up with Warmbloods overseas :wink:

He is the sweetest horse ever, if you know how to handle him. He learns superfast, if he is not in his donkey modus. He comes up every day with new things to avoid certain things (most recent was: i will not go to the grooming area.. and he is VERY big with his view of NOT going there, watch your head since his bullseye whiskey is very good and his hind feet kick higher and more accurate as a missle)
I have no problems whatsoever with this horse, and we get along just fine.

I am sick of hearing from peopel who have never met or worked with him that i am to weak or not dominant enough with him, again trying to explain that if you want to dominant him (wich I think is a typicall english riders/european riders term of word) that he would rather try to avoid you with all his might.
Can anyone enlighten me on this handock myth or truths?
Thanks,
Moody

 

[Faster horses]

First, I would imagine the Hancock bloodlines in your horse are not up close.

Hancock horses are noted for being tough cow, ranch and rope horses. They are good-boned, good footed and very durable. But they also are noted for being hard to break and bad as I hate to say it, not very smart. They can also be bad-headed. Just about everyone has heard about the Hancock head.

However, it would be interesting to see how close up the Hancock is in your horse. Many times what gets blamed on bloodlines should be blamed on environment and/or handling.

We have had some good Hancock horses and some bad ones. I imagine everyone has come across both. They seem to take a lot of riding to get real broke and there isn't much of that anymore. If you can get them broke, you are darn sure horseback.

Don't know if this helped you or not, but that is how Hancock horses are perceived in the West.

 

[MoodyMare]

is it ok to post some pictures?
On his podium:

While working:

As a 3 1/2 year old:

[/img]

 

[MoodyMare]

Thank you for your answer.
His sire is Catch BillyHancock, When you said hard to break and not smart hm.. he learns by, what I call, the AHA effect. He will try something and if it goes into his AHA effect, good or bad.. it is in him and very hard to get out only by outsmarten him and beeing faster than him he learns.
Is this a trademark? as soon as it is in him it sticks forever.

When riding him he will find moments where i am unaware and find his own entertainment, as you see i do not ride western *g It takes a lot of the rider to keep him busy and steady in what he is doing or learning, his switches from horse to donkey are very close together, as I call it
He has a huge mind of his own and he is very sure of himself and his opinion of the world, strenght does not impressive nor "getting a smack"
With him you can impress him by beeing smarter and faster in your reactions than him.
Is this a hancock trademark? As you see I am very dumb when it comes to QH or any american breed.
I grew up with Pilot sons and their trademarks, so I am open to learn anything i can about Hancocks.

 

[Faster horses]

How old is he? He just sounds like a lot of young horses that need time to mature. Plus the personality sticks out all over on him. Which is good, IMO.

He certainly is attractive and looks intelligent. He looks really good, matter of fact! He is good legged, good-footed and looks durable and is the color of many Hancocks, minus the white. He has a nice head, which is a plus.

Post the whole pedigree, please. Would be interesting to see how Hancock came to be on a Paint horses papers. Hancocks are usually bay or brown with very little white. Then there are Roan Hancocks, roan, but still very little white on them.

This has been interesting.

And yeah, it is fine to post pictures here. We all love pictures!

 

[rancher]

I haven't had a bad one yet, well maybe one, they are not that athletic in the arena, exceptions to the rule, but you can ride them all day long. It depends on what side the Hancock it comes from I feel. If you have a nasty Hancock mare it will show up on the colt most of the time, if you have a nasty Hancock stud I don't believe it shows up as much. Kind of like the statement, "If momma ain't happy, ain't happy no one is" A colt learns a lot from their momma. If Hancock is off the papers a ways I don't think it is worth discussing. Your horse shows the bone and the head, esp. front view. What does he have in him that makes him hold his tail like that? Must be the saddle.

 

[MoodyMare]

Great, i love showing pictures of him, I am very proud of him, since he is the first horse in my live what truly makes me happy in all ways, handling, riding and just beeing his carrotmachine on two legs

He is 5 years old now, I got him with barely 3 1/2 he was slowly broke to ride with a wonderful lady and has never experienced bad treatment, exept maybe no carrot..
As you might guessed too I am not very familiar with QH/Paint breeding.
His sire Catch BillyHancock, dam Jimbo Kitten. www.allbreedpedigree.com/sd+gunslinger is his pedigree

about mid summer first started spanish walk under saddle...

his favorite: barreljumping (note; not racing *g)

Rancher, what do you mean by holding his tail like that? :???:
We, the dressage riders *g, want the horses tail to be losely carried and swinging from side to side, this means the horse is going *over the back* using his belly muscles to lift his back up and stepping over the back from behind into the riders hands/hand aids.

 

[rancher]

Well maybe I will take up dressage, my horses must not pull their bellies up except at the grain pan. Looks like you are happy with your horse and that is all that counts no matter what is on or off his papers. Keep the pictures coming. Looks like the two of you have bonded and that is what you are after.

 

[MoodyMare]

Rancher, why not try dressage?
Let me tell you, people did the meanest things to me after beeing in the US for a couple of weeks *g
Someone put me on a pleasure horse, and told me: ride..
Well the walk was fine, even though the saddle was not very comfi for me coming from our small buttcrack saddles Also those long reins where too long for my taste, also using my constat contact to the horse, leg aids and seat aids, the horse under me did not feel very comfi with me having my legs on him all the time *g

Well the trot, what I would call a sleeping funeral trot, was, I guess, to fast cause the owner always yelled: TOO fast TOO fast, slower slower!
I got told this was called a jog, even though I thougt, well I jog faster than this horse in a trot *g
Than someone decided to put the german girl on a barrel racer.. the brave germans we are or said to be ,I said of course, let me try Watching it beeing done, I noticed it looked very close to a canter piroutte, so it cant be that hard right? *ggg well I was proven wrong, specially after someone told me I have to SSSSS when running... so I SSS..t and the horse tock off with me in a dead speed run incl bucks
After that, I will never trust a western rider again *g

 

[Anonymous]

I see where Tommy Hancock is about 6 or 7 generations back- Does have Hancock several times back in his pedigree.....Some good old foundation sires back in his past- Peter McCue, King, Chubby, Oklahoma Star----But definitely a lot of lines that go back to Hancock......

Some of his pedigree has been having to be registered as a paint since back in the 50's it looks like.....

 

[rancher]

Rancher, why not try dressage?
Let me tell you, people did the meanest things to me after beeing in the US for a couple of weeks *g
Someone put me on a pleasure horse, and told me: ride..
Well the walk was fine, even though the saddle was not very comfi for me coming from our small buttcrack saddles Also those long reins where too long for my taste, also using my constat contact to the horse, leg aids and seat aids, the horse under me did not feel very comfi with me having my legs on him all the time *g

Well the trot, what I would call a sleeping funeral trot, was, I guess, to fast cause the owner always yelled: TOO fast TOO fast, slower slower!
I got told this was called a jog, even though I thougt, well I jog faster than this horse in a trot *g
Than someone decided to put the german girl on a barrel racer.. the brave germans we are or said to be ,I said of course, let me try Watching it beeing done, I noticed it looked very close to a canter piroutte, so it cant be that hard right? *ggg well I was proven wrong, specially after someone told me I have to SSSSS when running... so I SSS..t and the horse tock off with me in a dead speed run incl bucks
After that, I will never trust a western rider again *g

So how did you end up here? and you came from Germany? Welcome aboard. Western pleasure is a joke for ranch people. So don't judge us all by the horse show people. I don't think the people meant to be mean, you just ride different than they do. I just don't think dressage would work on the ranch, but do think you can learn from all. I believe in leg pressure and all that is natural to a horse. Why not work with them and not against them. The barrel horse trainer used verbal cues as in sssss, lots use leg and verbal cues in barrel horses. Just as it would be hard to put someone that doesn't ride the same as you on your horse and expect him to react the same, he won't . Thanks for the pictures.

 

[TimH]

Moody Mare,

My wife knows a lot about dressage and hunter/jumpers, etc. She says your horse is beautiful!!
I'm not much of a horseman,myself, but welcome to Rancher's.net.

 

[TWOROPES]

The last picture you posted is where I see the Hancock in him, I love them, they are not the horse that comes up lame the morning of a big cow work. There is a trade off with some of the ranch horse bloodelines, you get durability, stamina, and cow sense for cold back, freshness, hard head, but your damn sure mounted.

 

[PPRM]

Moody,

Welcome,


I have some nieghbors that have driftwood and hancock lines. Seems like folks that like one like the other around here. From the pictures, I'd say the two of you are getting alng fine with each other, so what do you want to do with him that you can't???? I guess I am not understanding the problem. If it is the opinion of others, well, I always figure I can't make everyone happy, so I concentrate on making numero uno happy. Yes, make the wife happy, LOL. Ya know, she comes by make the right thing hard pretty well, LOL....


Anyway, the one thing on both Driftwoods and Hancocks is they are all day horses, and take a lot of riding. One of th best hands I ever knew said they were best if used a lot and really didn't come into thier own until they were 9 or so. I am not in the position to do that, so they aren't the bloodlines for me, but I can tell you do work a lot with yours, so enjoy him,

The *g is something I haven't seen before, what does it mean?

PPRM

 

[Tumbleweed]

This is a picture of a Hancock horse I used to have. He was a horse I liked more than any other horse that I've ever had. I've never paid much attention to papers or breeding just rode what ever was handy and that I could afford. He was a quiet horse and alert. Would do pretty much what ever I asked him to. When ever he would see me coming he would look at me and nicker. Kind of like where are we goin and what are we gonna do now? He would take a notion to buck once in a while but I always got his head pulled up and around to stop him before he got me throwed off. One time I was going to gather and move some cattle and stopped on the way at a neighbors who trained border collies.
Got off and was visiting with acouple of fellows my neighbor was showing one of his dogs to working sheep. Guess my horse didn't like the look of those sheep or dog and he pulled away, stuck his nose in the dirt, went to balling and trying to throw the saddle off. He done a good job of trying and I was sure glad I wasn't on him. Guess he got it out of his system cause I got on and went and moved the cattle with no trouble. Just one more thing to like about him. I used to spend a lot of time riding and doctoring cattle alone like this yearling or cows that had foot rot. This old horse got pretty wise to it and was sure good help.

 

[sw]

I have ridden quite a few Hancocks, would not usually trade them for anything. I would bet that my yellow grade gelding is somewhere one of them, he will not wuit, will go all day, there is not a cow that will get the best of him if the rider is cowboy enough to go with him. I was going to post this picture of a double bred Hancock and see who could figure out the bredding, he has the smallest head and actually looks feminine fro the neck on, then look at the Hancock fro the rest of the way down. He is definitely a double Hancock, he is going to be a challenge as he is already, but like Tumbleweed says, they are as good as they get, just takes them longer to get there.

 

[Faster horses]

Soapweed, your horse looks like he was a great partner.

sw, your young horse is very nice-looking.

We had 2 Roan Hancocks. The were full brothers and one wasn't worth much. You couldn't get your work done on him because he wouldn't quit bucking. He didn't buck hard, and never bucked anyone off, but he just wouldn't quit. We finally gave up and got rid of him. The other one bucked our brother-in-law off and hurt him so he sold him to our son-in-law who was a good hand. That horse bucked HARD, but when he quit he was a really good horse. He bucked for a long time, every time he was saddled. Our son-in-law got badly injured (not by this horse) and the horse was sold. I just received an e-mail of the horse, now about 25 years old in a kids barrel race! So, as has been mentioned on here several times, if you can get 'em broke, YOU'RE HORSEBACK and they last.

A friend of ours who trains barrel horses was a good cowboy in Montana and he had a double bred Hancock that he said was the best horse he ever rode. Double bred and double nice. He called that horse Champ and he was NOT your typical Hancock. Didn't look it and didn't act it.

 

[Tumbleweed]

My neighbor bought a couple of hancock bred colts and got them started a couple of years ago. They needed a lot of riding and had it in them to buck when they wern't getting rode enough. He had a couple of young fellows riding them for him for a while. One of the horses just had to much buck and fight in him and got dangerous so he canned him. The other horse got ok if he was getting rode alot but my neightbor wasn't able to do that enough so he sold him last spring to a fellow who was calving out a bunch of cows and heifers. The fellow who bought him, his boy and hired hand just took turns day and night riding him and he got enough riding that way. Guess he got dog gentle. Most people have several horses to ride but I guess some of those hancok horses need several people riding them.

 

[Jinglebob]

I don't know much about Hancocks, but thats sure a good lookin' filly in them pictures! :lol:

Hancocks were said to have big butts and ugly heads, but ranch and cowboy folk liked them for their ability and endurance. Makes me think of a joke.

A young ranch girl came home from a date with the neighboring ranch son and she was just beaming. Her mother asked her why she was so happy. The girl said, "Oh, he just gave me the nicest compliment. He said I was as nice as a Hancock filly!"
Her mother said, " Hell of a compliment! A big butt, an ugly head and a bad attitude!" :lol:

 

[MoodyMare]

Rancher, my husband is american, so after his tour we moved to the US, upstate NY first, and I hated it up there
I didn't mean to say that western riders are mean, i meant that in a sarcastic way We had lots of fun, my friend, who runs barrels (the girl who put me on her barrel horse) rode my back than dressage horse (thoroughbred) for about hmmm 5 minutes, she dismounted, handed me the reins and sayd: thank you but no thank you
It is a huge difference in every way I think, specially the real western riding, which in Europe we have the fancy fufu western riding, but they want to be soooo american, but if you try to tell them that a real westernrider working on a ranch does not sit in a western saddle as on a dressage saddle worring that the riders legs run parrallel to the riders shoulders :wink: OH NO we ride sooo good, and that than is no real western... tz

The *g means something like *smirk or *lolsmirk, sorry, this is german.

Oldtimer, so for his pedigree he is not the *typicall* hancock?
I just found that horses who are said to be dumb, are actually smarter than the average horse, you just need to know HOW to work with them, since they are more likely to outsmart you in playing dumb.
Mine for example, he switches in what I call the donkey modus, in this stage he just stands there, hanging ears, plantd feet and his eyes in lala land.
But as soon as I get him interested again, he is all there, learning superfast. most of our tricks he learned within one day, though it took me a year to get him to learn is very first trick, that is when I noticed that this horse does not learn like other horses, but is smarter and wants to be challenged in every way every day or else he switches to the doofus modus.

But he is VERY stubborn when it comes to things he does not want, like going in a trailer, he will actually (and this is no lie!!) sit in front of the trailer on his butt, planted, and will not get up for several minutes, until you let go of the pressure on him.
As soon as you try something with pressure, force or dominance on him, he will switch to: doofus, dangerous or simple stand there in lala land planted like a tree.
He does know how to buck actually, and that very well. Mostly when I am pissing him off... meaning i am not using my aids corectly and i am confusing him, instead like a *normal* horses reacting, he will buck.. oh well, at least he lets me know I am doing something wrong very generous of him, to let me know to change something in my riding.
If it is not buckingtime, it is *going-where-I-want* time, meaning, he is all there on his aids, next thing you know, for not paying attention for one second, he is gone,usually out the gate or up to the treat lady on the fence... and that so fast that the rider barely has time to react in time.
If you pay your whole attention to him, he is doing wonderful and does not goof off.

I enjoy him very much. Through him actually I feel like i am becoming more sensetive to things, like I can read what is going to happen next. :lol: