hangin tuff

[mytfarms]

Honestly, to me, #542 looks a little too thin herself!!!

So, are you going to turn me in for animal abuse? :???: :roll:

#542 is too thin. I won't deny it. On the other hand she is in a bunch with 170 other cows. If she can't hold her own, that is her problem. I don't plan to spoon feed her so she will look like the top end.

You can't "starve the profit" out of a cow, but you can feed them too much to be able to make any profit, also. We go on the averages on this outfit. They either keep up or go down the road. My guess is that when this too thin of a cow hits green grass in another month, she will do alright. If she weans a decent sort of calf, is bred in the fall, and has all her teeth, she gets a free pass to spend another year on the ranch.

Hit 'er on the head Soap! Our cows don't look like they've been fed hard all winter because they haven't. If we did feed them 24-7, we'd be broke but have some dang nice lookin' cows.

 

[WyomingRancher]

Soapweed, I also appreciate your reply, and fundamentally agree with you . I need to come clean. Part of my opinion is based on an incident, without going into detail, where the neighborhood turned their backs on a huge, very visible, neglect case. We too, wanted to respect private property rights, and felt it would take care of itself. We did try to talk to the rancher about what they were doing, but in hindsight it would've been better to have turned the rancher in before it got so bad that the public noticed and had to do it for us. Once the public got involved, it turned into a completely different wreck..back to perception :shock:. It did damage our reputation in the community since the public wondered why we'd "protect" someone who did this :? . The public also became more interested in other operations in the area. That's when we learned a call to the state vet is a pretty benign way of inquiring. As FH pointed out, they usually send someone to drive by and look, following-up only when necessary. Should we care what the public thinks? As an industry, I think so if it's a valid case where blatant neglect is occuring. I'd rather try and limit problems within the industry than wait for new regulations to be passed. Do we really need the government telling us NOT to try and sell a downer cow?

Perhaps this is due to visibility of an operation. We've got an Interstate highway running through the place with over 20,000 cars driving by daily, snooping into our management whether we like it or not. Also, our cattle are summered on a popular forest allotment. I've been pulled aside and questioned by the public a lot over what and why I do what I do. Also, this ranch is surrounded by subdivision housing, and they like to look over the fence . The public is truly interested in animal care, and I want to be a good ambassador to the industry. Once again, it's all about perception . If I was fortunate enough to be isolated from other people, I may have a different point of view. Unfortunately where I'm at is pretty non-agriculture, and you have to be more on the defense than offense because people truly don't understand. Try explaining why just because an animal has horns, it doesn't mean it's a bull for the upteenth-hundreth time :roll:.

I agree all animals look tough in a blizzard, especially if they're humped-up, covered in snow, taking a dump . Everyone on this site knows you provide the best care possible, shelter and feed for your cattle. More importantly, it doesn't look like you could walk up and grab her spine :shock:. Can't definitively conclude the same from the longhorn pictures. Perception... .

 

[kolanuraven]

So, are you going to turn me in for animal abuse? :???: :roll:

#542 is too thin. I won't deny it. /quote]




So you agree with me then?

If you can't afford to feed all 170 of them...then you need to cull.



'Nuff said....get off the computer and go feed them cows!!!

 

[Northern Rancher]

I think what Soapweed is getting at is you don't overfeed 169 cows so that the 170th looks fat. That's how crappy little turds like EXT get famous lol.

 

[Andy]

So, are you going to turn me in for animal abuse? :???: :roll:

#542 is too thin. I won't deny it. /quote]




So you agree with me then?

If you can't afford to feed all 170 of them...then you need to cull.



'Nuff said....get off the computer and go feed them cows!!!

You sound like a purebred breeder. If my thinest cow in a group looks like that and calves fine and breeds back and brings in a nice calf in the fall I think I am feeding about right. Now if that is an average cow I need to feed more.

 

[gcreekrch]

So, are you going to turn me in for animal abuse? :???: :roll:

#542 is too thin. I won't deny it. /quote]




So you agree with me then?

If you can't afford to feed all 170 of them...then you need to cull.



'Nuff said....get off the computer and go feed them cows!!!

You sound like a purebred breeder. If my thinest cow in a group looks like that and calves fine and breeds back and brings in a nice calf in the fall I think I am feeding about right. Now if that is an average cow I need to feed more.

My sentiments also. :wink:

 

[kolanuraven]

So, are you going to turn me in for animal abuse? :???: :roll:

#542 is too thin. I won't deny it. /quote]




So you agree with me then?

If you can't afford to feed all 170 of them...then you need to cull.



'Nuff said....get off the computer and go feed them cows!!!

You sound like a purebred breeder. If my thinest cow in a group looks like that and calves fine and breeds back and brings in a nice calf in the fall I think I am feeding about right. Now if that is an average cow I need to feed more.

Ohhh..you can say I've seen a purebred or two!!!! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[WyomingRancher]

You sound like a purebred breeder. If my thinest cow in a group looks like that and calves fine and breeds back and brings in a nice calf in the fall I think I am feeding about right. Now if that is an average cow I need to feed more.

I agree. .

She looks like a young cow. I'll bet she breeds back, and you don't even notice her next year at this time .

 

[Soapweed]

So, are you going to turn me in for animal abuse? :???: :roll:

#542 is too thin. I won't deny it.

So you agree with me then?

If you can't afford to feed all 170 of them...then you need to cull.

'Nuff said....get off the computer and go feed them cows!!!

My point is that since #542 yellow tag cow calved three weeks ago, she has been in this bunch of 170 cows. The cows get fed as a group each day. She is probably the thinnest cow of that 170. She seems to have a Liberal victim mentality. As you could tell in the blizzard picture, the other cows shunned her so she was covered with more than her fair share of icicles because she was on the outside of the bunch.

Lets look at the whole concept logically. Say for instance there is a third grade class of 25 students. One of the 25 will be the smartest kid in the class, one will (I hate to say it) be the dumbest kid in the class. The other 23 will have varying degrees of averageness. One kid of the 25 will be most average in intelligence, because there will be 12 kids smarter than him (or her), and there will be 12 kids dumber.

One kid of the 25 will be the most athletic, and one of the 25 will be the least athletic. Once again, there will be one of the 25 who is "average" in this department, because there will be 12 kids more athletic and 12 kids less athletic.

Horror of horror, one kid of the 25 will be the fattest kid in the class and one will be the skinniest. One will be average, because there are 12 fatter and 12 skinnier.

It is the same way with my #542 cow. She is the skinniest out of 170 head. That is her problem. I am an equal opportunity feeder. All of the 170 cows in this group have the same chance at success. If this cow was the fattest of the 170, I would not be feeding very well. Then nutrition for the herd would definitely be a problem. Since she is the skinniest, I am currently not too worried about the other 169.

Are there any further questions? :???:

For due consideration, here are three other cows of the same age group that are also in this bunch of 170 head.

Yellow tag 523

Purple tag 504

Green tag 573

 

[gcreekrch]

I see you haven't built your sunshades with fans and sprinklers yet Soap, don't you know cows need them to survive your summers? :wink:

 

[Soapweed]

I see you haven't built your sunshades with fans and sprinklers yet Soap, don't you know cows need them to survive your summers? :wink:

No, and I probably won't. :wink:

Speaking of animal abuse, wouldn't it be considered just as abusive to get cattle too obese to perform to the best of their ability as it is to have them too thin? Correctness is such a relative term. Who are any of us to judge whether or not someone else is doing it "just right"? It is just as abusive to raise cattle in very hot muggy conditions as it is to raise them where blizzards and too much wind are regular occurances. To each their own. We don't need armchair quarterbacks telling each other how best to ranch. :roll:

 

[per]

I see you haven't built your sunshades with fans and sprinklers yet Soap, don't you know cows need them to survive your summers? :wink:

No, and I probably won't. :wink:

Speaking of animal abuse, wouldn't it be considered just as abusive to get cattle too obese to perform to the best of their ability as it is to have them too thin? Correctness is such a relative term. Who are any of us to judge whether or not someone else is doing it "just right"? It is just as abusive to raise cattle in very hot muggy conditions as it is to raise them where blizzards and too much wind are regular occurances. To each their own. We don't need armchair quarterbacks telling each other how best to ranch. :roll:

:agree:

 

[nmhighdesert]

Sorry I took so long to get back on here. I went up by there on Monday, 3 days after I took those pictures. And they are not grainy, they are shot outside in the wind and snow. Anyway, on Monday the snow and everything was gone and the cattle had moved away. I agree the grass in there is minimal. That pasture is about 4 miles long by 3 miles deep. I drove across part of it as it has a county road thru it. Them cattle were not to be seen, I assumed they had went back toward the rim to the northeast.
I wont be afraid to post a picture on here because I realize ya'll have opinions on how the "guy across the road" should run his out fit. I actually went over there to check my horses on some rented grass. I drove 112 miles and didnt see any vehicles out but mine. Maybe thats why no one had been out, I dont have a clue. Since I grew up in the north country I carry my bedroll with me when the weather is poor. Besides whats the back seat of your truck for when you travel alone :lol: . Well ya'll take care.

 

[gcreekrch]

I see you haven't built your sunshades with fans and sprinklers yet Soap, don't you know cows need them to survive your summers? :wink:

No, and I probably won't. :wink:

Speaking of animal abuse, wouldn't it be considered just as abusive to get cattle too obese to perform to the best of their ability as it is to have them too thin? Correctness is such a relative term. Who are any of us to judge whether or not someone else is doing it "just right"? It is just as abusive to raise cattle in very hot muggy conditions as it is to raise them where blizzards and too much wind are regular occurances. To each their own. We don't need armchair quarterbacks telling each other how best to ranch. :roll:

:agree:

Well said.

 

[Big Swede]

Since ol' 542 has just had her third calf, and since she has calved probably within the first 21 days of the calving season, and since the other cows in her contemporary group are in good shape maybe the fact the she is a condition score less than the others isn't that big of a deal.

Cows that need to be pampered raise daughters that need to be pampered. If she can't compete with her sisters and comes up open that is not necessarily a bad thing. Leaves more room on the ranch for those females that can adapt and thrive.

But then again if a fed the hell out of her you might be able to sell one more bull calf out of her.
:roll:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I have seen cattle die quicker from the heat then the cold.

 

[kolanuraven]

I see you haven't built your sunshades with fans and sprinklers yet Soap, don't you know cows need them to survive your summers? :wink:

No, and I probably won't. :wink:

Speaking of animal abuse, wouldn't it be considered just as abusive to get cattle too obese to perform to the best of their ability as it is to have them too thin? Correctness is such a relative term. Who are any of us to judge whether or not someone else is doing it "just right"? It is just as abusive to raise cattle in very hot muggy conditions as it is to raise them where blizzards and too much wind are regular occurances. To each their own. We don't need armchair quarterbacks telling each other how best to ranch. :roll:

Hmmmm...something tells me that #542 got a wee bit extra feed today!!!!



Who are any of us to ' judge'??....and this question comes from YOU?? :roll: :roll: :roll:

If you haven't noticed in the past few years....that's what happens here....DUH!!!!!

 

[Soapweed]

I see you haven't built your sunshades with fans and sprinklers yet Soap, don't you know cows need them to survive your summers? :wink:

No, and I probably won't. :wink:

Speaking of animal abuse, wouldn't it be considered just as abusive to get cattle too obese to perform to the best of their ability as it is to have them too thin? Correctness is such a relative term. Who are any of us to judge whether or not someone else is doing it "just right"? It is just as abusive to raise cattle in very hot muggy conditions as it is to raise them where blizzards and too much wind are regular occurances. To each their own. We don't need armchair quarterbacks telling each other how best to ranch. :roll:

Hmmmm...something tells me that #542 got a wee bit extra feed today!!!!



Who are any of us to ' judge'??....and this question comes from YOU?? :roll: :roll: :roll:

If you haven't noticed in the past few years....that's what happens here....DUH!!!!!

I am talking about as cattle producers, not as of political persuasion. :? :wink:

As a matter of fact, #542 did not get any extra feed today. The whole bunch had some cleaning up to do from the day before, so they only got half a feed late in the day today. That was when I took the random pictures. The hay pile is shrinking fast, and there is certainly no need to waste any of it by giving any of the bunches of cattle too much.

 

[WyomingRancher]

Sorry I took so long to get back on here. I went up by there on Monday, 3 days after I took those pictures. And they are not grainy, they are shot outside in the wind and snow. Anyway, on Monday the snow and everything was gone and the cattle had moved away. I agree the grass in there is minimal. That pasture is about 4 miles long by 3 miles deep. I drove across part of it as it has a county road thru it. Them cattle were not to be seen, I assumed they had went back toward the rim to the northeast.
I wont be afraid to post a picture on here because I realize ya'll have opinions on how the "guy across the road" should run his out fit. I actually went over there to check my horses on some rented grass. I drove 112 miles and didnt see any vehicles out but mine. Maybe thats why no one had been out, I dont have a clue. Since I grew up in the north country I carry my bedroll with me when the weather is poor. Besides whats the back seat of your truck for when you travel alone :lol: . Well ya'll take care.

Thank for the update . In hindsight, of course I shouldn't have hastily judged those cattle from far away without knowing the circumstances... point taken. I may have over reacted, but those types of things piss me off. I'm done explaining why I feel we can't ignore blatant neglect (not the longhorn example, I mean in general when you know damn well there's an issue). I guess if you can't see the problem, and don't live downwind from it, it doesn't affect you :roll:. I'm off to move my cattle into better shelter this morning to prepare for the next blizzard... because I'm responsible for them, and I'm responsible to the industry . Someday if we're all mandated to provide "5.3 square feet of covered barn space per bovine unit" we'll all think back to this :lol: . This will probably never happen, but with a regulatory czar that has written a paper on an animal's right to sue, it may not be too far fetched :shock: :lol:. Remember back to the Clinton administration and "cattle guards"??? :lol:. Have a good day everyone, and good luck to those facing this next storm... maybe moods will improve once we see some green grass .

 

[kolanuraven]

Them cattle were not to be seen, I assumed they had went back toward the rim to the northeast.
.

Hope they made it and didn't just bow up and die off somewhere