Hay..Asset orExpense

[4Diamond]

I think you also have to figure in weathering losses in hay that is carried over. Most hay in our area is stored outside so I think hay loss is an expense.
I agree that hay carryover is insurance but when you lose X amount over the season that "insurance policy" gets more expensive.

 

[LCP]

I have been starting to think more like 4Diamond. If my hay is worth $100/ton or more on the open market, that 15-20% storage loss is a lot bigger deal than a few years ago when the hay was worth half that much. I don't like the idea of selling hay (exporting nutrients). But I also don't like the idea of all those nutrients rotting in the hay yard.

With the open winter, we have a huge carryover inventory. If we have a normal moisture year, I will have some decisions about what to do. I'm thinking about renting a baler with netwrap to bale at least some of my 2012 hay. I figure that would make it easier to market if it needs to go south. I haven't sold much hay in the past so I have some learning to do. Most of our hay is intermediate wheatgrass/alfalfa hay or slough hay (pretty coarse stuff). Nothing dairy quality.

 

[Larrry]

Put a good price on your hay and make it a take it or leave it deal. No reason to subsidize the next guy with your cheap hay.

 

[Larrry]

If you have some genetics you have spoent years building your insurance will be higher unless you want to gamble with your genetics

 

[Soapweed]

Both the bank and I consider hay an asset. Every year at renewal time, the hay inventory is taken into account. I have never sold any hay, have often bought hay, but usually don't have a very big carry-over. We tend to pretty much use up all that we bale, but I'd much rather have carry-over than run out. Sandhills grasses never come on very fast in the spring, so we generally feed hay until the middle of May.

 

[jodywy]

hay you are mining minerals , it sure helps if you can feed it back where the ground needs the help. sold some hay this year , would have rather bought a few more cows, but got some mony coming in with last summers hay crop. Plus feeding on a very poor piece of hay ground. So to me it a win win, and hopefull there still be a stack of hay left by the end of May.

 

[C Thompson]

A couple of years ago I would have jumped into this with some pretty strong opinions but have let experience temper me a little. I feel that hay can be either an asset or liability depending on how much it costs to own it and how much you need. Also I would question the practice of carrying very much over unless it was just too good a deal to pass up and cash flow isn't a problem. All places ore different and situations are as well but I have done a lot of thinking on it over these last four years and for now will conclude that how much you need for the amount of cattle you own might be a more important question than whether you import it or grow and put up your own. We have done both and I now know the difference for our ranch. For us even when we needed lots of hay it would have still been better to buy it as needed than to have owned the equipment, and paid high fertilizer bills and maintenance on equipment. We now manage our grass better with electric fence and grow more grass without any fertilizer than we ever grew to put up as hay and stockpile feed to extend grazing. This not only cut our expenses per cow in half but it also cut our winter feeding time in half too. We don't care what hay costs because we just don't need much of it and what we do buy improves our land. Our cattle numbers haven't decreased either. In fact we could use a few more now but they are a little high to buy. Once again I know that some of us can't do the exact same thing because of other factors but the few changes we have made here are making the difference between profit or loss for us and we consider any carry over hay to be a liability until we either resell it or put it through a cow.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

To each his own,,

In this country when you need it it's expensive and when you don't it's cheap.

Last winter I thought I had lots and the weather closed in early and stayed late, This year I have 200 cows that haven't seem a bale and probably won't.

Seems like if you wait to see what kind of winter your going to have you might not find hay. I like to have what I figure is "Enough" and will buy pellets to supplement if necessary. Carrying over hay doesn't hurt my feeling one bit.

 

[gcreekrch]

To each his own,,

In this country when you need it it's expensive and when you don't it's cheap.

Last winter I thought I had lots and the weather closed in early and stayed late, This year I have 200 cows that haven't seem a bale and probably won't.

Seems like if you wait to see what kind of winter your going to have you might not find hay. I like to have what I figure is "Enough" and will buy pellets to supplement if necessary. Carrying over hay doesn't hurt my feeling one bit.

If your hay starts becoming a liability to you just send it over and it can become an asset to me. :wink:

 

[Black Out]

My neighbour is 85 years old and one year I sold some hay in is own way he scolded me and I will never forget what he said ( If you have cows you don't sell hay ) . Well the next year we had a late freeze and then a drought I made it through fine but his words will never be forgotten.

 

[Silver]

I grew up with it well ingrained in me by my father and grandfather that around here you NEVER sell hay. You can lend it, but don't sell it. I have now lived long enough to see the wisdom in that.

 

[miocene]

although c thompsons place is less than 20 mile away as the crow flies it is also at half the elevation that i am athe is able to graze earlier and later than i am.about a month on each endof winter.for my place i will keep putting up my own feed,and daily feeding cows due to the higher snow fall i recieve ,sitting at 30 inches of settled snow.which provides plenty of irrigation water.and moisture for my pastures and hay fields.if i have hay in the yard i know i have feed,if i relied on pasture reserves and residue grazing on my place the cows would have a tough time after december 1st. through till mid may .i would like to keep a surplus of 2 months feed supply but that has not been easy the last 8 years due to droughts and low cattle prices triggering a hold back of calves for the spring market.

 

[littlejoe]

I like carrying over round bales. Anything in little bales/harrowbed stacks---which we only bale second cut/primo and use for protein supplement that is left over is sold in the spring. Or mostly, i give it away. Always seems to fit the good ol' boys who come at the drop of a hat to help me ride, do welding or do my chores if i'm in a bind.

The round bales we place single file on well drained spots, butt them togethor tight, and are net wrapped. 12-14" precip and lotsa wind. Not much spoilage, look like they shrink a little.

But i got a question: Old straw, if kept good, is supposed to be more digestible than new straw---cellulose breaking down. Seems like hay might be the same---input, opinions, answers, interesting lies and amusing anecdotes welcomed.

 

[Denny]

My uncle always said the same thing of 2 and 3 year old lowground hay.I don't know for sure I have'nt had any left over the last few years.

 

[Soapweed]

I like carrying over round bales. Anything in little bales/harrowbed stacks---which we only bale second cut/primo and use for protein supplement that is left over is sold in the spring. Or mostly, i give it away. Always seems to fit the good ol' boys who come at the drop of a hat to help me ride, do welding or do my chores if i'm in a bind.

The round bales we place single file on well drained spots, butt them togethor tight, and are net wrapped. 12-14" precip and lotsa wind. Not much spoilage, look like they shrink a little.

But i got a question: Old straw, if kept good, is supposed to be more digestible than new straw---cellulose breaking down. Seems like hay might be the same---input, opinions, answers, interesting lies and amusing anecdotes welcomed.

My thoughts are that cattle eat low quality hay with more enthusiasm if it is a year or two old than they do if it is first year hay. It must spoil and ferment enough to give more taste.

 

[JF Ranch]

I like carrying over round bales. Anything in little bales/harrowbed stacks---which we only bale second cut/primo and use for protein supplement that is left over is sold in the spring. Or mostly, i give it away. Always seems to fit the good ol' boys who come at the drop of a hat to help me ride, do welding or do my chores if i'm in a bind.

The round bales we place single file on well drained spots, butt them togethor tight, and are net wrapped. 12-14" precip and lotsa wind. Not much spoilage, look like they shrink a little.

But i got a question: Old straw, if kept good, is supposed to be more digestible than new straw---cellulose breaking down. Seems like hay might be the same---input, opinions, answers, interesting lies and amusing anecdotes welcomed.

My thoughts are that cattle eat low quality hay with more enthusiasm if it is a year or two old than they do if it is first year hay. It must spoil and ferment enough to give more taste.

I have observed that cows will walk away from beautiful, green hay just fed to them, to enthusiastically crowd around a mover loaded with poor quality "junk", thinking they are getting a better deal. Like adolescent children, I suspect that might have more to do with their rebellious mind set, than any sense of preference.

 

[Hayguy]

I like carrying over round bales. Anything in little bales/harrowbed stacks---which we only bale second cut/primo and use for protein supplement that is left over is sold in the spring. Or mostly, i give it away. Always seems to fit the good ol' boys who come at the drop of a hat to help me ride, do welding or do my chores if i'm in a bind.

The round bales we place single file on well drained spots, butt them togethor tight, and are net wrapped. 12-14" precip and lotsa wind. Not much spoilage, look like they shrink a little.

But i got a question: Old straw, if kept good, is supposed to be more digestible than new straw---cellulose breaking down. Seems like hay might be the same---input, opinions, answers, interesting lies and amusing anecdotes welcomed.

we have always found that 2 yr. old barley straw to be more paletable than new straw. hay not so much but have fed tarped square bales up to 3&4 yrs.old, had it tested and it had dropped in protein some but not as much as you might expect.

 

[jodywy]

We got 3 open pole hay sheds , used to fill by hand woth little bales ,then filled the bottom with a stack wagon. With the tractor I got now stack 2 high rounds on thier end then a row on the round then set another row on top set in on the round. Used to shed for Alfalfa and feed out every winter, the thrid is bigger and fill with the best meadow hay, it the bank and usually gets fed last, but sometimes the back will have 3-4 year old hay that bright green when spunn out . Need a couple poles on a couple of the sheds.

 

[C Thompson]

I guess I need to contain my enthusiasm a little more if I hit a nerve or two. I am sorry for the comments that might be offensive as that is not my intension. I am getting a little positive information from every comment here. In my defense however I would like to point out that both neighbors in my environment last year with the same opportunities in the same valley fed for exactly twice as long as us. This should be something to celebrate and share or at least do the math on. Had we not learned to stockpile grass and adjust our calving and weaning dates, we would have had to feed hay for the same amount of time as them. This year we have already winter grazed another two weeks longer than last year getting us within two days of February.This is nothing new. It is a return to basics using common sense low inputs and different management styles. It is likely the very thing our predecessors used to do when they were putting the places together we now have to operate. Nothing stays the same forever in any business. For us it was the only choice we could make to survive and the difference it has made not only to our bottom line but to our health and the land is nothing short of spectacular. Only one generation ago my wife's parents bought this place for less money than we spent on our last baler and we only have one third of the original ranch. Joel Salatin claims that the industry standard length of time most farmers ( or ranchers if you prefer ) feed hay from Florida to Northern Alberta is 120 days. We used to feed for 150 days. This has a lot more to do with management than environment. I firmly believe we all have something to share with each other and these things can and have made a profound difference in ours and many others lives and businesses. I love the Henry Ford quote that I come across from time to time. If you think you can or you think you can't, You are right. Hope this is taken in the positive way it is sincerely intended.

 

[Soapweed]

I guess I need to contain my enthusiasm a little more if I hit a nerve or two. I am sorry for the comments that might be offensive as that is not my intension. I am getting a little positive information from every comment here. In my defense however I would like to point out that both neighbors in my environment last year with the same opportunities in the same valley fed for exactly twice as long as us. This should be something to celebrate and share or at least do the math on. Had we not learned to stockpile grass and adjust our calving and weaning dates, we would have had to feed hay for the same amount of time as them. This year we have already winter grazed another two weeks longer than last year getting us within two days of February.This is nothing new. It is a return to basics using common sense low inputs and different management styles. It is likely the very thing our predecessors used to do when they were putting the places together we now have to operate. Nothing stays the same forever in any business. For us it was the only choice we could make to survive and the difference it has made not only to our bottom line but to our health and the land is nothing short of spectacular. Only one generation ago my wife's parents bought this place for less money than we spent on our last baler and we only have one third of the original ranch. Joel Salatin claims that the industry standard length of time most farmers ( or ranchers if you prefer ) feed hay from Florida to Northern Alberta is 120 days. We used to feed for 150 days. This has a lot more to do with management than environment. I firmly believe we all have something to share with each other and these things can and have made a profound difference in ours and many others lives and businesses. I love the Henry Ford quote that I come across from time to time. If you think you can or you think you can't, You are right. Hope this is taken in the positive way it is sincerely intended.

Here is my observation that doesn't seem to come to light very often. Stockpiled grass is great, and if a rancher can winter on it, more power to them. In my case, our Sandhills grasses lack "punch" in the winter time. If I stockpiled grass for winter grazing, it would definitely cut into the cattle numbers that we can summer. Our sloughey grasses on the wet meadows makes good hay but lousy grazing. Yes, we have the expense of putting up hay, but it is also rather like buying insurance. If the snow gets deep, we still have feed available.