Hay tests

[burnt]

I haven't done any hay samples yet. I won't until the second cut is off and we'll send them both in at the same time.

But the first report back in our neighborhood is from 1st cut, new seeding 80/20 mix that was cut in June. It came back testing 6% protein. :shock:

I can't say that I'm overly optimistic about the stuff we cut in early July at full bloom plus.

So rain makes hay grow but that doesn't necessarily equate to good feed value.

 

[Faster horses]

Unless that hay was put up really rank (mature) I wouldn't trust that
test, burnt. We test a lot of rained on hay and have found the
rain depletes the vitamins and minerals (as evidenced by turning
yellow) but it doesn't hurt the protein very much. This is through
years of testing.

How much moisture was in that sample? I sure think something
is not right with the analysis.

I can give you an address of where to send it, I think the cost is
$12/sample, but they are quick and good.

 

[jigs]

was too cloudy here on the 2nd cutting, one field came back dairy quality, and the rest was just good cow hay. but we put it in the shed, and it is pretty green, so I am hoping to sell it on eye appeal, and not a test!

 

[tenbach79]

If it is a 80/20 grass/alfalfa mix, the grass will make the test lower than straight alfalfa. I would agree that the test might not be right but that all depends on how much rain you got on the hay and how you tested the hay. What kind of hay probe do you use? That will have a affect on how the sample reads also. Most of our mix hay runs in the 16-18 protien range most of the time with some lower values with poor hay.

 

[Liveoak]

I haven't done any hay samples yet. I won't until the second cut is off and we'll send them both in at the same time.

But the first report back in our neighborhood is from 1st cut, new seeding 80/20 mix that was cut in June. It came back testing 6% protein. :shock:

I can't say that I'm overly optimistic about the stuff we cut in early July at full bloom plus.

So rain makes hay grow but that doesn't necessarily equate to good feed value.

Why would 6% be bad? There's no mention of fertilizer applications prior to seeding, unless I missed it somewhere. My jiggs bermuda tested 12% but it had been fertilized 2 months prior with nitrogen and phosporous.

 

[Faster horses]

A cow in the winter needs 1.7# crude protein a day. She needs
2.0 in the third trimester. This is, I believe at 20 degrees F.
Below that the protein requirements go up. So, if a cow
eats 30 lbs. of hay that contains 12% moisture, she is getting 26.4
lbs. Dry Matter. 26.4 times 6% protein = 1.58 # crude protein.
Borderline at best and not enough in the third trimester.
If she is only getting 20-25# of hay as fed (without
figuring for moisture,) does you understand the problem, Liveoak?

Weak calf syndrome is a symptom of not meeting a cows protein
requirements in the winter time.

I hope this helps!

10% protein is high enough protein for a range cow, if fed enough DM
to meet the requirements.

 

[burnt]

I don't know anything about the background of the hay. This was just told to me by a guy that runs a small farm supply store and the test would have come from an accredited lab.

I'm not too concerned about the quality of our hay. About half was baled early and wrapped and the rest a bit more mature and put up very green in good weather. But we'll find out after we finish up the second cut. And it's a bumper crop as well with all the rain we've had.

Southern Ontario has been like a freakin greenhouse this summer! Insert sweat emoticon here. :lol:

 

[Liveoak]

A cow in the winter needs 1.7# crude protein a day. She needs
2.0 in the third trimester. This is, I believe at 20 degrees F.
Below that the protein requirements go up. So, if a cow
eats 30 lbs. of hay that contains 12% moisture, she is getting 26.4
lbs. Dry Matter. 26.4 times 6% protein = 1.58 # crude protein.
Borderline at best and not enough in the third trimester.
If she is only getting 20-25# of hay as fed (without
figuring for moisture,) does you understand the problem, Liveoak?

Weak calf syndrome is a symptom of not meeting a cows protein
requirements in the winter time.

I hope this helps!

10% protein is high enough protein for a range cow, if fed enough DM
to meet the requirements.

Pretending that all of the above is true :wink:, how would burnt solve his problem with 6% hay?

 

[Liveoak]

I don't know anything about the background of the hay. This was just told to me by a guy that runs a small farm supply store and the test would have come from an accredited lab.

I'm not too concerned about the quality of our hay. About half was baled early and wrapped and the rest a bit more mature and put up very green in good weather. But we'll find out after we finish up the second cut. And it's a bumper crop as well with all the rain we've had.

Southern Ontario has been like a freakin greenhouse this summer! Insert sweat emoticon here. :lol:

Burnt, I apologize. I wrongfully assumed that you grew the hay yourself. If your getting enough volume then maybe you don't have much to worry about depending on the number of cattle and length of winter. Just feed out more hay. Or, you could run a soil test and add fertilizer accordingly to up the percentage of protein. The cost of the fertilizer may not be worth it, depending on your situation. I can relate to the heat problem! But we are getting some showers down here to keep the grass growing. There's yet another option for you but I'm kinda curious to see how FH responds.

 

[Faster horses]

With 6% hay, he would need some kind of protein supplement.
Perhaps some higher protein alfalfa hay fed every 3 days or so.
Protein does not need fed every day, energy does.
I advocate alfalfa hay as a supplement over cake or molasses
blocks because, at even $100/ton, alfalfa hay is a better buy.

In order for the cows to eat more hay at 6%, we would need to
know the ADF. That is acid detergent fiber and shows how digestible
the hay is. The higher the number the less digestible. Usually, with
6% protein, we would see a high ADF. I really have a problem
believing this hay is 6% protein. How much moisture is in that hay?
Is the 6% on a dry matter basis or with moisture in it?

I too, thought this was burnt's own hay.

 

[Whitewing]

I haven't done any hay samples yet. I won't until the second cut is off and we'll send them both in at the same time.

But the first report back in our neighborhood is from 1st cut, new seeding 80/20 mix that was cut in June. It came back testing 6% protein. :shock:

I can't say that I'm overly optimistic about the stuff we cut in early July at full bloom plus.

So rain makes hay grow but that doesn't necessarily equate to good feed value.

Why would 6% be bad? There's no mention of fertilizer applications prior to seeding, unless I missed it somewhere. My jiggs bermuda tested 12% but it had been fertilized 2 months prior with nitrogen and phosporous.

I was thinking something on the order of 11-12% also but we too add nitrogen and phosporous to ours. The last I used was 11 - 52 - 0.....which was all that was available at the time. :shock:

 

[Faster horses]

Our hay is not fertilized. It is dryland hay and we have no problem
getting 10% protein in grass hay (crested wheat grass) and up to
18% protein in alfalfa hay.

 

[Liveoak]

With 6% hay, he would need some kind of protein supplement.
Perhaps some higher protein alfalfa hay fed every 3 days or so.
Protein does not need fed every day, energy does.
I advocate alfalfa hay as a supplement over cake or molasses
blocks because, at even $100/ton, alfalfa hay is a better buy.

In order for the cows to eat more hay at 6%, we would need to
know the ADF. That is acid detergent fiber and shows how digestible
the hay is. The higher the number the less digestible. Usually, with
6% protein, we would see a high ADF. I really have a problem
believing this hay is 6% protein. How much moisture is in that hay?
Is the 6% on a dry matter basis or with moisture in it?

I too, thought this was burnt's own hay.

O.k., so your going with RFV values. No mention of RFQ but that's really not a big issue in burnts situation, for the moment. We can't discount the importance of calcium and phosphorus to the calving/nutritional mix either. So, he needs a short-term fix until he can alter the soil in order to produce higher protein levels. Or, until he could change up his calving program to match-up to the nutritional levels of the grass/forage (they change during the year). Supplements are the only answer. He believes there will be a bumper crop of hay so he could partner up the roughage with a liquid feed. I would check with "loomixguy" to see about it's availability in the location it's needed. Purina also makes a liquid feed but it's urea based. Some folks have a problem with that. Alfalfa might be a better buy but you still have to add in time and labor for it's dispersal. Add all that up and compare to the liquid feed scenario. Alfalfa still might be the better deal but it's worth checking out.

 

[Liveoak]

I haven't done any hay samples yet. I won't until the second cut is off and we'll send them both in at the same time.

But the first report back in our neighborhood is from 1st cut, new seeding 80/20 mix that was cut in June. It came back testing 6% protein. :shock:

I can't say that I'm overly optimistic about the stuff we cut in early July at full bloom plus.

So rain makes hay grow but that doesn't necessarily equate to good feed value.

Why would 6% be bad? There's no mention of fertilizer applications prior to seeding, unless I missed it somewhere. My jiggs bermuda tested 12% but it had been fertilized 2 months prior with nitrogen and phosporous.

I was thinking something on the order of 11-12% also but we too add nitrogen and phosporous to ours. The last I used was 11 - 52 - 0.....which was all that was available at the time. :shock:

11-52?? Dang!!!! Unless your soil is really deficient in phosphorous, you could go with just nitrogen next time around. Are you baling hay that leaves the field? By that I mean, is it being sold or are you feeding it back to your own cattle? If it's being sold then nutrients are leaving the field and have to be put back through fertilizer or you lose value. If your feeding out your hay to your own cattle then you get to salvage some of the lost nutrients through manure.

 

[Whitewing]

Why would 6% be bad? There's no mention of fertilizer applications prior to seeding, unless I missed it somewhere. My jiggs bermuda tested 12% but it had been fertilized 2 months prior with nitrogen and phosporous.

I was thinking something on the order of 11-12% also but we too add nitrogen and phosporous to ours. The last I used was 11 - 52 - 0.....which was all that was available at the time. :shock:

11-52?? Dang!!!! Unless your soil is really deficient in phosphorous, you could go with just nitrogen next time around. Are you baling hay that leaves the field? By that I mean, is it being sold or are you feeding it back to your own cattle? If it's being sold then nutrients are leaving the field and have to be put back through fertilizer or you lose value. If your feeding out your hay to your own cattle then you get to salvage some of the lost nutrients through manure.

The first time I fertilized it was with 48 - 0 - 0....and it was cheap. Why I didn't load up on the stuff I don't know. When I went back for more, all they had was the 11 - 52 - 0....and it was almost twice the cost. :x

I'm not selling the bales, I'm keeping them for my cattle. And for what it's worth, I'm cleaning out all the manure from my corrals (and there's a mountain of it) and putting it back on the bermuda fields.