Northern Rancher
Well-known member
What about your smart mouth on the tractor thread-mind your language buddy. If you can't take some -don't start dishing it.
Haymaker
- Thread starter Big Muddy rancher
- Start date
Bro
Well-known member
ust 60-70 miles south of me- there are quite a few that plan on grazing all winter and plan on only feeding hay for a few days if a real bad storm sets in...But they are down in the breaks where usually after a snowstorm the chinook winds come in and clear it off or at least the ridges....Usually get by with just a little caking...
back in the 1880's or 1890's, when cattle ranches first started to pop up in the northern prairies, cattle were out all winter, remnants were collected in the spring. I suppose it worked out fine most winters, except for one in particular when I believe about 80% of the herd expired when the chinook winds did not arrive? Maybe it was the winter of '96 or even '06? A lot of ranches on shaky footing after that. After that a lot more hay was put up. - people learned. I always make sure I got 2 years of silage on hand at all times, and of course you would try to minimize the days feeding your cow herd.....just don't get caught without any feed or you will lose everything. Feed is one cost you cannot get away from, you can only minimize it.
back in the 1880's or 1890's, when cattle ranches first started to pop up in the northern prairies, cattle were out all winter, remnants were collected in the spring. I suppose it worked out fine most winters, except for one in particular when I believe about 80% of the herd expired when the chinook winds did not arrive? Maybe it was the winter of '96 or even '06? A lot of ranches on shaky footing after that. After that a lot more hay was put up. - people learned. I always make sure I got 2 years of silage on hand at all times, and of course you would try to minimize the days feeding your cow herd.....just don't get caught without any feed or you will lose everything. Feed is one cost you cannot get away from, you can only minimize it.
Tap
Well-known member
You do have quite the attitude. I was really trying to learn and thinking maybe I was missing something about the licking snow deal. I could not imagine not giving them water, so I just figured there must be more to it. I would rather they have water than supplement, so you just go ahead and do it your way, and we will do it ours. Of course we cannot count on having snow or not having snow, so we would have to have water close anyway.
I am trying to be a gentleman here and I do not want to get into one of these back and forth exchanges that you like so much.
Bro
Well-known member
Tap, I winter my dry cows on snow whenever I can. It has to be clean, fluffy snow. The cows have to be in good shape at the start, and by feeding dry cows a maintenance ration where they slowly lose condition over the winter, they do just fine. Don't expect the cows to put on weight though (they may, but it would not be a very efficient use of feed), and they must be dry cows. Once they calve, then water must be supplied of course.
Ben H
Well-known member
Cattle need to consume way more snow then they actually will to get an adequate amount of water. I'm not sure of the exact numbers but it's significant enough that I won't try it. That is also a limiting factor of where I can winter my cattle. Traditionally we've always fed hay from November-May. I'm now trying to go towards stockpiling so that I can greatly reduce the winter months of bringing feed to the cows. Stockpiling is really pretty much unheard of here in Maine, a lot of old fashioned, keep doing it the way we've always done it farmers.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
If you look close I never iniate the back and forths TAP I treat others like they treat me-in business,life and on ranchers.net -you don't see me posting polls etc about other members like I said if you don't want to mix it up don't disparage my ranch or lifesryle because it's different than your chosen path. The poiNT I was trying to get across is cows selected for a certain management system or conditions will be more likely to do well on it than ones that aren't. Our cows calve late on grass-they probably do better on it than larger cows that calve earlier-it probably isn't a good idea for lactating cows either. Denny,Haymaker etc like to give it out but sure don't like any back.
Broke Cowboy
Well-known member
Northern Rancher said:
IL Rancher
Well-known member
I think for the most part NR is right about the can't attitude a lot of folks have when it comes to stockpile and other low cows stuff... I have had cattle people visit from out west and they look around here and they can't believe how much feed we grow on accident around here. Before we had more cows we used to plant 140 acres of corn a year that was behind good fences and we would be able to stip graze those fields for a good long time before breaking out any hay. IT was dry cows, in November/December usually and we only supplemented with a little protein because dry corn plants and corn gleanings are a bit shy in the protein department. They did very well on this ration and it was cheap.
Now, since we rent out most of our crop ground we don't have any corn so we are forced to live with the tennents tillage/mamangemnt practices when it comes to us getting our bulk feed. So we bale the stuff and feed it that way. What we need to do is ripe out the old fence that is probably 20 years past being useful and refence it and tell the renter to get over it, we running some cows but I digress... Between crop residue, cereal crops, stockpiling forage and brassicas we could probably avoid feeding hay for all but one month of the year. Unfortunelty we are just plain out running too many cows right now to stockpile which is one reason that the trailer to the barn is going to be running pretty heavy this fall,
There are lots of folks around here who think you are starving your cows if there is not hay infront of them 24/7 and by hay I mean Alfalfa.. If you are only feeding you cows hay you are doing something wrong, what about grain, what about silage and what about DDGS.. You can't do fall calving, you have to calve in Feb because the mud is to bad in April (Mud has always been worse in Feb in my experience).. Sometimes I think people just enjoy feeding their cows way to much (That has to explain my neighbor whose feed wagon has been running for 400 days straigh now or something)..
So I guess right now I have a bit of the can't attitude too
The one thing we can't do here is let them lick snow. Simply isn't enough of the white stuff most years but this is common sense. If you have solid ice on your grass your cows most likely are not going to be able to chisel through the stuff to get to the grass. If you have no snow to lick the cows aren't going to get any water from snow.
We did run sheep on licked snow for a while one winter.. Not by our choice but by theres. If there was snow on the ground they licked it, as long as there was grass in the pastures they were in they ate it too instead of the hay. Those darn pasture maggots were pretty darn easy keepers. :shock:
Now, since we rent out most of our crop ground we don't have any corn so we are forced to live with the tennents tillage/mamangemnt practices when it comes to us getting our bulk feed. So we bale the stuff and feed it that way. What we need to do is ripe out the old fence that is probably 20 years past being useful and refence it and tell the renter to get over it, we running some cows but I digress... Between crop residue, cereal crops, stockpiling forage and brassicas we could probably avoid feeding hay for all but one month of the year. Unfortunelty we are just plain out running too many cows right now to stockpile which is one reason that the trailer to the barn is going to be running pretty heavy this fall,
There are lots of folks around here who think you are starving your cows if there is not hay infront of them 24/7 and by hay I mean Alfalfa.. If you are only feeding you cows hay you are doing something wrong, what about grain, what about silage and what about DDGS.. You can't do fall calving, you have to calve in Feb because the mud is to bad in April (Mud has always been worse in Feb in my experience).. Sometimes I think people just enjoy feeding their cows way to much (That has to explain my neighbor whose feed wagon has been running for 400 days straigh now or something)..
So I guess right now I have a bit of the can't attitude too
The one thing we can't do here is let them lick snow. Simply isn't enough of the white stuff most years but this is common sense. If you have solid ice on your grass your cows most likely are not going to be able to chisel through the stuff to get to the grass. If you have no snow to lick the cows aren't going to get any water from snow.
We did run sheep on licked snow for a while one winter.. Not by our choice but by theres. If there was snow on the ground they licked it, as long as there was grass in the pastures they were in they ate it too instead of the hay. Those darn pasture maggots were pretty darn easy keepers. :shock:
All I was saying was that maybe the moisture content of the snow would dictate if you could actually let them lick or not.Depending on your location.But if you have no snow to lick you may want to get out of bed in the morning and chop ice off your ponds otherwise you may have livestock walk out and fall in.Which has happened here even though I'm 1500 miles south of REAL WINTER. :wink:
Faster horses
Well-known member
We have friends north of Missoula that run their cattle a little different than the 'norm' in that area. They summer on irrigated ground and winter out on a big hill. They don't get hay until about a month before calving.
Those cows have water, but they have to come down off that hill to get it.
The owners have noticed that they don't come in every day, but about
every 3rd day, everyone of those cows comes in for a drink. So they drink about twice a week. The rest of the time they eat snow.
Another thing I am going to attempt to point out here, if you want cattle to perform to their maximum and live a long life, they need some water in the winter...especially if they are fed supplement.
Like I said earlier, they won't die, but they won't live or perform to their full potential either. Water in winter or not, might go back to those who are more concerned about cost than performance. Not that their is anything wrong with that. But I don't believe you can cut water and get the highest performance from your cattle. There is much more to be measured than living or dying.
Those cows have water, but they have to come down off that hill to get it.
The owners have noticed that they don't come in every day, but about
every 3rd day, everyone of those cows comes in for a drink. So they drink about twice a week. The rest of the time they eat snow.
Another thing I am going to attempt to point out here, if you want cattle to perform to their maximum and live a long life, they need some water in the winter...especially if they are fed supplement.
Like I said earlier, they won't die, but they won't live or perform to their full potential either. Water in winter or not, might go back to those who are more concerned about cost than performance. Not that their is anything wrong with that. But I don't believe you can cut water and get the highest performance from your cattle. There is much more to be measured than living or dying.
Red Barn Angus
Well-known member
I know things are done differently in different areas but I have a tough time understanding why you wouldn't want to provide water for your cattle. Granted, they drink less in cold weather but water is the cheapest feed available. I have clean water available at all times for the cattle and I'm pretty sure most of them drink daily. Sure they may survive but they need to do more than that if they are to be expected to produce a top quality calf every year. There are a couple of sayings I think are particularly true.....You have to take care of them if you expect them to take care of you and You can't starve a profit out of them.
Where im at right now we have enough natural springs that the cattle have fresh running water all year but to the east of here they have to provide water for there cows.
I dont know of any outfits that expect there cows to live off of snow for water.
Outfits around here dont farm. The ones that tried it have given up when there machinery was old enough that it had to be replaced. What they do is just buy enough hay so if we get a hard spring they can feed some.
Most outfits supplement a bit in the spring with cubes but for the most part they only stock as many cattle as what they dont have to feed.
If you get to intensive you have to much troubles with scoures and sickness.
We are fortunate that there is still native buffalo grass around here. Its the best and cant really be improved upon.
As far as im concerned ranching was perfected a hundred years ago and cant be improved upon.
There are some trying to farm/ranch on not enough land and its just a/well if I had to do it that way I would do something else for a living.
Drives me nuts to see pick up trucks gathering cows or branding with a table! Or worse yet trying to doctor cattle on a quad usually after they wait until the cow is weak enough that they can handle it.
I dont know of any outfits that expect there cows to live off of snow for water.
Outfits around here dont farm. The ones that tried it have given up when there machinery was old enough that it had to be replaced. What they do is just buy enough hay so if we get a hard spring they can feed some.
Most outfits supplement a bit in the spring with cubes but for the most part they only stock as many cattle as what they dont have to feed.
If you get to intensive you have to much troubles with scoures and sickness.
We are fortunate that there is still native buffalo grass around here. Its the best and cant really be improved upon.
As far as im concerned ranching was perfected a hundred years ago and cant be improved upon.
There are some trying to farm/ranch on not enough land and its just a/well if I had to do it that way I would do something else for a living.
Drives me nuts to see pick up trucks gathering cows or branding with a table! Or worse yet trying to doctor cattle on a quad usually after they wait until the cow is weak enough that they can handle it.
Mike
Well-known member
I'd bet those "Hot" springs that gush warm water would be the ticket for wintering cattle.
Then they wouldn't have to exert all that energy to warm the water once it was in their belly.
Then they wouldn't have to exert all that energy to warm the water once it was in their belly.
Faster horses
Well-known member
RoperAB, you think ranching was perfected 100 years ago and can't be improved upon?
REALLY?
Well, what weight of calf does you cows produce right now? I'll bet much heavier than 100 years ago.
Do you sell 2 and 3 year old steers? That's what was marketed then.
Does your cows have a calf every year? 100 years ago it didn't matter. Do you use 100 year old equipment? I'll bet you don't.
Those are just a few of the IMPROVEMENTS that have been made in the last 100 years.
REALLY?
Well, what weight of calf does you cows produce right now? I'll bet much heavier than 100 years ago.
Do you sell 2 and 3 year old steers? That's what was marketed then.
Does your cows have a calf every year? 100 years ago it didn't matter. Do you use 100 year old equipment? I'll bet you don't.
Those are just a few of the IMPROVEMENTS that have been made in the last 100 years.
Soapweed
Well-known member
One of the longest and toughest winters in my memory was 1978-1979. Snow fell in early November and hung around until about the first of March. It was bitter cold through much of this winter, and the snow was deep. One of the bigger ranches down in the hills lost several hundred head of cattle during this time, and the main reason was lack of drinking water. There was sure plenty of snow, but maybe it had thawed and frozen too often, and was not of correct consistency for the cattle to lick it to live.
A lot of antelope also perished that winter. Many of them were eating and ruining third cutting alfalfa off of irrigated pivots. With that high protein low roughage diet, the blood of the antelope got too thin, their condition went downhill, and they weren't able to survive.
We were feeding lots of swamp hay and not enough protein to pregnant cows. A few head of older cows didn't make it through to green grass, but I think they would have if more protein had been fed.
A lot of antelope also perished that winter. Many of them were eating and ruining third cutting alfalfa off of irrigated pivots. With that high protein low roughage diet, the blood of the antelope got too thin, their condition went downhill, and they weren't able to survive.
We were feeding lots of swamp hay and not enough protein to pregnant cows. A few head of older cows didn't make it through to green grass, but I think they would have if more protein had been fed.
To each his own----What ever keeps your cow happy and healthy.
We always graze as long as they can get a belly full.Our cured native grass lacks only protien,so we try to feed a little good alfalfa.It seems to give them a better incentive to go out and rustle.
I know cattle can get by without water if the snow is right but it just takes more enegy ,thus more feed.
This is an interesting thread.Thanks for starting it Haymaker.
We always graze as long as they can get a belly full.Our cured native grass lacks only protien,so we try to feed a little good alfalfa.It seems to give them a better incentive to go out and rustle.
I know cattle can get by without water if the snow is right but it just takes more enegy ,thus more feed.
This is an interesting thread.Thanks for starting it Haymaker.
I was refering to the way cattle are handled.Faster horses said:
I wasnt refering to trailing cows thousands of miles to markets or rail heads and of course back then there were more important things than weight gain. #1 That the calf lived long enough to get to the market.
Yes my gear is the same or darn close <I use a nylon/poly rope>
I hate all this modern stuff<branding tables, quads, cell phones, tractors,etc>.
:wink: