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he lays down when saddled/mounted

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Chuckie

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we are boarding a TB gelding who lies down as soon as a person mounts. i've tried tightening his girth gradually (doesn't matter). so far, i've just given him a boot in the side, he gets up, no big deal.

i wonder if i should try: saddle, tighten girth, walk a minute, snug up girth a bit more, then what? normally, it's mount the horse, but when you do, he lies down.

should i mount, when he goes down dismount, let him get up on his own? or dismount, give him a kick in the side to get him up and go on? once he's been *down* and back up, he gives no problem--it's just the initial mount.

the horse is about 13 yrs old, retired track horse, nice guy otherwise. ride with a twisted wire snaffle; the bit is NOT the problem, it seems to be the girth....

HELP???!!??
 
My old saddle horse learned that trick in the mountains. He went down in the muskeg one time, and as he laid there I took his saddle off. Henceforth, everytime we got into the 'skeg, down he'd go. Then he got to the point that even tied to a tree on hard ground I'd go to saddle the bugger and he'd flop around like he was floundering in the 'skeg, then lay there waiting for the saddle to be removed. :?
I just faithfully persuaded him up in the same style as yourself and after awhile he gave up. :wink:
 
Chuckie,
I have to agree with Muddy,he's gettin out of work,and hence forth is training you! Try getting the saddle on him and have him immediatelly move out and send him around you in both directions,that way if he's got forward impulsion and he can't lay down ,do that every time for a couple days.When you mount up line out and go somewhere,don't play at it any get busy on him if you have to.Use your seat,legs,whatever,just keep his feet moving once your up there and ride him forward.Give him a fair deal,but only as fair as he's being with you!!Good luck pard.
 
My big ol Appy horse got into that when he wanted to be done with the day. He'd just practically ' melt' right under you so smoothly you'd not realize what he was doing until he was going down. He was a slick one.

Kicking ...NO!! Remember they'll kick back one day and you'll end up on the bad end of it.

When mine would do this.....I would get off....he'd get right up....I'd get back on and we'd just do an extra bit of work. Otherwords, I'd put him into overtime. Don't get mad, slap and yell and scream as it makes you look dumber than the horse....a waste of oxygen.

Do this Overtime deal a few times...and the horse will get the idea that if he lays down....he's gonna have to work longer.
 
Personally, I would do what kolan said, AND show him what my spurs can do on his way down. Too many people baby horses now a days. People think they are just some wimpy little babies....you ever watch the horses out in the pens together??? They bite and kick each other waaay harder then I ever could.
 
Choc,
I guess everyone has thier own way of doing things,personally i like a nice responsive horse and you don't get that by scracthin' one with your spurs when you already have one problem running.The only thing that does is get one more concerned,cause now you have a horse that says well if i lie down i get kicked in the belly and when they get on they spur me in the belly so now i might just have to get rid of this person or leave the country with them in tow.Yes i do agree that spurs have their place as a tool,but they sure can be overused also,and in alot of instances can cause one heck of a run off affair!!I'm a firm believer in giving a horse a chance to do the right thing,if they need some support i'll try and give them a little help.I've found my ponies appreciate this honest approach,has nothing to do with being to soft,these are our friends that we rely on to haul our butts around chasing cows around all day and they deserve a good deal!!!I compare that scenario to spanking your kid before they do anything wrong,because you know eventually they will.
 
thanks for all the input guys/gals. i wonder if the spurs woudn't work with this guy, as he has only ever done the "lie down" with young, inexperienced riders who don't wear spurs.

i guess i'm gonna have to get on him myself, w/spurs and see what kinda rodeo we'll have. i'm thinking that when he lies down, i step off, then when he gets up, i step on again, and we go to work.

i'll have to see if he lies down w/me (vs the littler kids)--it could be just a matter of riders...and i might just need a good kick in the ribs from a top him...

the saddle fits ok, as does the bridle, he's really just being pissy.....
 
Blkbuckaroo--I see it your way!!

We had a young horse that got 'cinchy'...or was wanting to get cinchy. We know several very good horsemen and women; ones that EXCEL in understanding horses. We asked one of them about this situation and their advice was this: "Cinch him up just so the saddle stays on; (we NEVER cinch a horse tight anyway); lead him out of the barn. Walk a bit, cinch him up a bit more. Then walk, then tighten the cinch a bit more. When it gets tight enough that you are comfortable getting on, get on.
DO NOT ASK HIM TO MOVE. Just sit there. He will sigh and lick his lips. Get off, without asking him to do anything else. Repeat again."

This horse was dreading something...we knew not what, because we NEVER EVER cinch a horse tight right at first. Anyway, it worked because we got him through it and never had a problem after that. But he was a young horse, and just starting this bad habit. We managed to correct this in time so that it never became a problem.

Cinchy horses are claustrophobic for some reason. It's a very bad habit and dangerous. Most of them will pull back when tied up too. It is man-made because horses don't do this unless something has happened to scare them in some way.

FWIW
 
I may get myself into another p--ing match here..... am I missing something?
First let me say I have been known to mistreat a man who was REALLY mistreating a horse. :mad:
Secondly, the horse in this thread is being a spoiled SOB and needs disipline, NOT understanding or cookies or a pet. By disipline, I mean whatever it takes to break him of a habit that could eventually hurt somebody. If he is known to do this you should NEVER put an inexperienced rider on him in the first place. A good spanking at the right time never hurt me, my horses, my dogs, or my kids.
 
I guess my comment wasn't too bad eh??? You can't baby a spoiled ass horse. Too many people wispering these days. I LOVE watching people with older spoiled horses.....as I ride by with my broke ass horse that I used to give lessons on. He was started under saddle with (dunt dunt duuuuunt) spurs!! His very first ride was with spurs. People with uneducated legs ALWAYS bitch about spurs. I use my spurs often and for all kinds of things, but I never spur for the heart. The only time I would rake a horse real good is when he would do something dangerous. I can't sell a horse that bucks, bites, kicks, or lays down. It's not a partnership.....it's a dictatorship, and I am in charge.

Don't cut him open, but let him know that when he goes down, he's gonna pay for it.


P.S......How in the hell can you compare spanking a kid for nothing to a spoiled, lazy sob horse who lays down (which is a reason for disapline)?
 
used to buy spoiled broke horses of a canner friend of mine...only thing wrong with em was between their ears...
trick I learned from an old hand has served me well twice...once on this type of trouble and once on a mare that would rear over backwards...

when that hoss goes down,make im stay there...for hours...he won't be as likely to do it again...
leave halter and lead on and when he lays down,pull his head to the side,flatten im out and give the lead a couple of wraps on the horn.He'll decide for himself that layin down with a saddle on isn't for him if he can't get back up when HE wants.
mind yer on level ground and use an old saddle there could be some squirming involved.
I always found that them makin up their minds about somethin sticks harder than if you do it for them.
 
LOL!!!!!!
Well we certainly have a live forum on this deal.My comparison was more my way of saying,i've riden alot of spoiled horses,there may have been a day when i felt like i had to spur the heck out of a horse to get a response,but these days that's generally a last resort.I have quite abit more skill then i did when i was younger and much more inexperienced,so i will try several things,and in this particular situation i personally think i could get the horse to move out without spuring right when i got on,That's just me,never said anyone else's way was wrong!!!Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride.By the way i can't sell a spoiled or dangerous horse either,and i spend lots of time riding outside horses so i like to get them where you don't spur to go forward,that's called having an independent seat!!You can use your legs,hands,voice.etc.Apperently no one saw my first response when i said be fair but only as fair as the horse is to you.I wear and use spurs!!It's how you use them and the severity!I let them know the spurs are there when i need to,and get outta there,plain and simple.By the way when your good to your horse,dose'nt mean your whispering or any such nonsense you hear people saying,some people like to take the time it takes to make a good solid horse that you feel comfortable putting your kids on.Is the horse spoiled,probably but you can work through it,nough said.Happy spurring!!LOL!
 
Faster horses said:
I very much liked and appreciated what you just posted, Blkbuckaroo!!
Click to expand...
Thanks Faster,good to have another person whom likes to develope a good horse!!Thanks my friend.Also i am in no way slamming anyone else for the way they get to their end result getting their horse going,this is just a debate nothing personal!Have a great day everyone!!!
 
Without getting myself in hot water again I'd like to clarify a couple of things I've posted
BlkBuckaroo stated " Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride" --- I couldn't agree with you more. There are a lot of clinicians out there that can help most anyone improve their horsemanship. I've found that if you learn 1 thing from any educational tool you use it was well worth it.
I do believe that "respect" and "consequences" are 2 words that don't seem to be used together much anymore whether it be horses, dogs, kids, or in some cases ourselves.
By respect I mean just that. It has no connection to fear. All fear does is create contempt.
By consequences I mean if you don't have respect, you WILL have to deal with the consequences. ie: If a horse throws itself.. no matter how gently he does it, he will learn that it is not an acceptable habit. It is up to him to find out how easy or difficult the lesson will be.
Choclab asked " How in the hell can you compare spanking a kid to a spoiled,lazy sob horse who lays down ( which is a reason for disapline)?
The whole animal kingdom (which we are a part of) disciplines their young for doing things that are unacceptable. How we acchieve that is up to us. (although I do believe that most animals are more consistant and better teachers of the unacceptable than we are) My belief is that the same rules of respect and consequence applies with our young too. The way a lot of the youth are today it seems this is a disappearing concept. For those of you that grew up in the early days of Sesame Street, you might remember the " what happens next " segments, compliments of Bert & Ernie. Those three words have something to do with everything WE do every day.
Back to my first post, if I hurt anyone's feelings or pride, please accept my sincere apologies. I was stating my opinion on the matter at hand.
Again: Do what you have to do to get the kinda horse you want to ride.
Well Said
Yours Truly, gcreekrch :)
 

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