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HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS, not just the rich

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The people put them in office, now those same people will have to deal with them being there. Sadly we have turned a corner in history where we have more fools than not who want things to be just exactly the way they are in Washington. If we didnt we wouldnt be here. I hope for better things to come, I dont want to be a doomsday guy, I just dont see the majority having the abilty to think with any amount of simple common sense again. Unless we fail and fall flat on our face, and then those skills will be learned by the generations that were skipped of common sense, by building it up again through sweat, honesty,integrity,knowing how to put a seed in the ground grow something and eat it. I dont have the tough political answers but I do believe alot of the problems could be fixed through honesty, and being alot simpler than its made out to be. If the people were more responsible, kept there own personal space together and managed their own lives a little better, the government would have alot of free time. Dont give them so much to have to fix, and they wont have as much to screw up. To be clear I am in no way implying irresponsible behaviour to those struggling by no control of there own, just the ones who choose it.
 
Oldtimer said:
BRG said:
They just lit a flame under the rights arse. Now I predict it will be a landslide victory for Romney and any other Republican running this time around.

And if the law needs to be or is to be changed that is the way to do it- thru legislation by Congress, not adjudication by the Courts...
Roberts just went up a couple notchs in my book...

But I wonder if when this settles down, there will actually be that much get changed...The "mandate" way of getting everyone in the country to take responsibility for their health care coverage was long the Republican/Conservative/Big Business answer-- in opposition to the Liberal public health system...Nixon came out with mandates in his 70's health care proposal (until he got caught up in a little scandal and forgot about health care) and the very conservative Heritage Foundation proposed almost a mirror image mandate as to the one SCOTUS just ruled on...And prior to making this a partisan politics issue most Republican Congressmen had long said "that doing nothing on Healthcare Reform was no longer an option"....

Besides that much of big business, including the Insurance industry supports the mandate type law...


Roberts just legislated from the bench. Nowhere in that law is the word "tax" used. Democrats, Maobama included, adamantly denied that it was a tax. Roberts, for some reason, decided that he had to save the law. In order to do so, he had to re-write it. The man should be ashamed and should be removed.
 
Sandhusker said:
Oldtimer said:
BRG said:
They just lit a flame under the rights arse. Now I predict it will be a landslide victory for Romney and any other Republican running this time around.

And if the law needs to be or is to be changed that is the way to do it- thru legislation by Congress, not adjudication by the Courts...
Roberts just went up a couple notchs in my book...

But I wonder if when this settles down, there will actually be that much get changed...The "mandate" way of getting everyone in the country to take responsibility for their health care coverage was long the Republican/Conservative/Big Business answer-- in opposition to the Liberal public health system...Nixon came out with mandates in his 70's health care proposal (until he got caught up in a little scandal and forgot about health care) and the very conservative Heritage Foundation proposed almost a mirror image mandate as to the one SCOTUS just ruled on...And prior to making this a partisan politics issue most Republican Congressmen had long said "that doing nothing on Healthcare Reform was no longer an option"....

Besides that much of big business, including the Insurance industry supports the mandate type law...


Roberts just legislated from the bench. Nowhere in that law is the word "tax" used. Democrats, Maobama included, adamantly denied that it was a tax. Roberts, for some reason, decided that he had to save the law. In order to do so, he had to re-write it. The man should be ashamed and should be removed.

Yes what gives Roberts the right to re-write the bill so it is Constitutional. Obama argued that it wasn't a tax and Roberts should have had to rule on what the Dems handed him and it NOT BEING A TAX. Which would have made the bill Un-constitutional according to his own ruling. :x
 
Everyone knows including Obama that Ronmey will win so they need to make it easier for him to cary on in Obamas footsteps. :twisted:
 
Liberals are celebrating a bill that they are going to curse in a few years. This Obamacare is not what people think it is. It's not going to make healthcare affordable, in fact it will make healthcare more expensive.
 
The easiest way to explain the Healthcare Bill is that it is a Trojan Horse.
In typical "liberal" fashion, it was given a name to make it acceptable to people that would investigate no further and accept it for what it is called. It is every conceivable means of controlling a populace under the guise of "affordable healthcare". I have not read the 2500 pages, but what I have read of it is enough to see what's coming. I know enough about Communism to know how Communists think. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." , sounds good to someone who is not inclined to self starting, self help, self reliance, and ultimately reliance on God.

PS: A better name for "Obama Care" would be, "OBAMA DON'T CARE". Somebody has probably already come up with that one.
 
TRENDING: Americans divided on health care ruling

Posted by
CNN's Kevin Liptak
(CNN) – Thursday's Supreme Court ruling upholding President Barack Obama's health care law has Americans divided, according to the first survey following the landmark decision.

Friday's poll from USA Today/Gallup showed 46% of Americans agree with the court's ruling, with 46% saying they disagree. Opinions were predictably split along party lines: 79% of self-identified Democrats agreed with the decision to uphold the president's law, while 83% of Republicans disagreed with the ruling.

Independents mirrored the poll's larger results – 45% agreed with the Supreme Court's decision, and 42% disagreed.
 
Larrry said:
Wanna bet that the ones who agree with the SC are the free loaders who want someone else to pay their bills for them

EXACTLY!! The zero-liability voters will ALWAYS vote for more handouts on the backs of those who work. The rally cry used to be "No taxation without representation". I think we need to change it to "No representation without taxation".
 
Oldtimer said:
TRENDING: Americans divided on health care ruling

Posted by
CNN's Kevin Liptak
(CNN) – Thursday's Supreme Court ruling upholding President Barack Obama's health care law has Americans divided, according to the first survey following the landmark decision.

Friday's poll from USA Today/Gallup showed 46% of Americans agree with the court's ruling, with 46% saying they disagree. Opinions were predictably split along party lines: 79% of self-identified Democrats agreed with the decision to uphold the president's law, while 83% of Republicans disagreed with the ruling.

Independents mirrored the poll's larger results – 45% agreed with the Supreme Court's decision, and 42% disagreed.

This poll is about supreme court ruling only. A huge majority of voters still do not want Obamacare at all.
 
TexasBred said:
Oldtimer said:
TRENDING: Americans divided on health care ruling

Posted by
CNN's Kevin Liptak
(CNN) – Thursday's Supreme Court ruling upholding President Barack Obama's health care law has Americans divided, according to the first survey following the landmark decision.

Friday's poll from USA Today/Gallup showed 46% of Americans agree with the court's ruling, with 46% saying they disagree. Opinions were predictably split along party lines: 79% of self-identified Democrats agreed with the decision to uphold the president's law, while 83% of Republicans disagreed with the ruling.

Independents mirrored the poll's larger results – 45% agreed with the Supreme Court's decision, and 42% disagreed.

This poll is about supreme court ruling only. A huge majority of voters still do not want Obamacare at all.


As for what Congress should do next on health care reform, 31 percent told pollsters they want the law repealed in full, and 21 percent said they want parts of it struck. A quarter of Americans say they want Congress to keep the law in place and also pass additional legislation to expand the government's role, while 13 percent say they simply want the law to stay in place and have no additional actions taken.

3 in every 10 folks polled wanted the law repealed in full...
 
Rasmussen: "54% Still Favor Repeal of Obama's Health Care Law"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

When the public finds out that 21 new tax increases, according to the House Ways & Means Committee, will go into effect concerning ACA, it'll be 104%.
 
Sandhusker said:
How many of those that are for it have any friggin idea what is in the law? Would it even be 1%?

How many of those that oppose the bill have been mislead by the billions $ spent by opposition groups and outright fearmongering lies put out by nutcases like Sarah Palin?


There have been huge lies told by both parties and false info put out by both sides about this bill/law..

The insurance industry has supported this law- and especially the mandate- from day one...They testified in Congress that if all folks were brought into the pool- they could then offer policies for preexisting conditions and much more coverage without huge premium increases..
I doubt they would support a law that was going to make them lose money.....

The best lie is the death panel lie...I watched the day that amendment was introduced.. It was introduced to the Senate hearings by very conservative Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma- who is an M.D... And he did so at the bequest of a Doctors Association... All it did was ask that all persons be provided when they reached medicare age with education about living wills and other advance directives that describe your treatment preferences in end-of-life situations, so that a person could use (or not use) to make known his or her wishes regarding life prolonging medical treatments. (something I have- and every responsible person that cares for their family members should have) Coburn also asked that Congress give more legal power to such agreements so that relatives can't come in and override the patients wishes- which throws fear of litigation into hospitals/doctors and often makes for an additional huge expense to public health....

Immediately Palin and some rightwingnuts came out that the Congress had readded a death panel (HR3200 where living wills/etal were first discussed was already dead)- and wanted signed declarations allowing you to die... And Palin even went so far she said they targeted folks like her retarded son... Which was Bullpuckey...But it got blew all out of shape...
And before passage of the law- both 3200 and Coburns whole amendment- which to me was a very good amendment were deleted- mainly because of Sarahs stupidity and need to fearmonger amongst her "Bubba" followers...

"Death panel" is a political term that originated during a 2009 debate about federal health care legislation to cover the uninsured in the United States. The term was first used in August 2009 by former Republican Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin when she charged that the proposed legislation would create a "death panel" of bureaucrats who would decide whether Americans—such as her elderly parents or child with Down syndrome—were worthy of medical care. Palin's claim, however, was debunked, and it has been referred to as the "death panel" myth; nothing in any proposed legislation would have allowed individuals to be judged to see if they were "worthy" of health care. Palin specified that she was referring to Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 which would have paid physicians for providing voluntary counseling to Medicare patients about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options.

Palin's claim was presented as false and criticized by mainstream news media, fact-checkers, academics, physicians, Democrats, and some Republicans. Other prominent Republicans and conservative talk radio hosts backed Palin's statement. One poll showed that after it spread, about 85% of Americans were familiar with the charge and of those who were familiar with it, about 30% thought it was true. Due to public concern, the provision was removed from the Senate bill and was not included in the law that was enacted, the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. In a 2011 statement, the American Society of Clinical Oncology bemoaned the politicization of the issue and said that the proposal should be revisited.

For 2009, "death panel" was named as PolitiFact's "Lie of the Year", one of FactCheck's "whoppers", and the most outrageous term by the American Dialect Society.
 
Lame-duck Barney Frank joins effort to repeal Obamacare 'death panels'

Published: 12:20 PM 11/29/2011

By Matthew Boyle - The Daily Caller

NEWTON, MA - NOVEMBER 28: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) walks away from the podium after announcing he will not seek re-election at Newton City Hall November 28, 2011 in Newton, Massachusetts. Frank is a 16-term Democrat who last year helped pass the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Barney Frank announced on Tuesday his support for the repeal of the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a significant portion of President Obama's health care overhaul.

Frank, who announced Monday that he would retire at the end of his current term in office, became the 12th Democrat, and the 212th member of the House, to co-sponsor Tennessee Republican Rep. Phil Roe's bill aimed at repealing the IPAB.

Frank is the most prominent Democrat to join Roe's bipartisan repeal effort.

IPAB is a 15-member board, appointed by the president, scheduled to convene in 2014. In order to reduce per capita Medicare spending, the board will recommend levels at which Medicare recipients, including seniors, can be reimbursed for health care expenses.

In March, Roe told The Daily Caller the IPAB is the "real death panel" in the health care law, as compared to "end-of-life counseling" Obamacare provisions which former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin once deemed "death panels."

"This one is the real baby right here — and most people missed this," Roe told TheDC then. "What everybody was talking about, when you saw Sarah Palin and so forth, what they were talking about these advanced directives where you sit down and there's sort of mandatory counseling — and Medicare paid for it. This IPAB got missed — and it's the real death panel."

The board would cap the total amount of money Medicare recipients could receive for care. Roe, a practicing physician before he entered politics, said health care decisions will ultimately be based solely on cost, instead of on the best possible health care outcomes for Medicare patients.

"Basically, there's a certain amount of money that's allocated for Medicare spending each year," Roe said in March. "Once you hit that amount that's been appropriated, this board, this bureaucratically appointed board, can then decide, not based on quality or need, but based on strictly cost."

According to Diane Cohen, the conservative Goldwater Institute's lead attorney covering Obamacare, IPAB is the "most notorious" of all the bureaucracies the health care law created because it hands Medicare payment decisions over to an unelected board.

Congress can recommend different spending amounts, but has to offset any increase in one area with a decrease in another. If Congress doesn't change anything in the board's "recommendations" of how much should be spent per Medicare recipient, their recommendations become law — even without congressional approval or the president's signature.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/29/lame-duck-barney-frank-joins-effort-to-repeal-obamacare-death-panels/#ixzz1zLNXLwmC

A bipartisan group supported repealing the TRUE DEATH PANEL Oldtimer. So who is really lieing about them being in the Bill?

And Who was REALLY LIEING, I might add REPEATEDLY LIEING, to the public about whether the Mandate was a tax or not?

Who repeatedly claimed he was not going to raise taxes on the Middle Class only to pass several tax increases on the Middle Class in his signature bill Oldtimer?

Are you going to allow Obama to keep lieing to you or are you going to be a man and say enough is enough with the lieing and kick his butt to the curb or not? I'm betting you will drink the koolaid and vote to support the lieing as credibility doesn't seem to rate to high with you. :roll:
 
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Tam said:
Lame-duck Barney Frank joins effort to repeal Obamacare 'death panels'

Published: 12:20 PM 11/29/2011

By Matthew Boyle - The Daily Caller

NEWTON, MA - NOVEMBER 28: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) walks away from the podium after announcing he will not seek re-election at Newton City Hall November 28, 2011 in Newton, Massachusetts. Frank is a 16-term Democrat who last year helped pass the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Barney Frank announced on Tuesday his support for the repeal of the Independent Payment Advisory Board,
a significant portion of President Obama's health care overhaul.


Frank, who announced Monday that he would retire at the end of his current term in office, became the 12th Democrat, and the 212th member of the House, to co-sponsor Tennessee Republican Rep. Phil Roe's bill aimed at repealing the IPAB.

Frank is the most prominent Democrat to join Roe's bipartisan repeal effort.

IPAB is a 15-member board, appointed by the president, scheduled to convene in 2014. In order to reduce per capita Medicare spending, the board will recommend levels at which Medicare recipients, including seniors, can be reimbursed for health care expenses.

In March, Roe told The Daily Caller the IPAB is the "real death panel" in the health care law, as compared to "end-of-life counseling" Obamacare provisions which former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin once deemed "death panels."

"This one is the real baby right here — and most people missed this," Roe told TheDC then. "What everybody was talking about, when you saw Sarah Palin and so forth, what they were talking about these advanced directives where you sit down and there's sort of mandatory counseling — and Medicare paid for it. This IPAB got missed — and it's the real death panel."

The board would cap the total amount of money Medicare recipients could receive for care. Roe, a practicing physician before he entered politics, said health care decisions will ultimately be based solely on cost, instead of on the best possible health care outcomes for Medicare patients.

"Basically, there's a certain amount of money that's allocated for Medicare spending each year," Roe said in March. "Once you hit that amount that's been appropriated, this board, this bureaucratically appointed board, can then decide, not based on quality or need, but based on strictly cost."

According to Diane Cohen, the conservative Goldwater Institute's lead attorney covering Obamacare, IPAB is the "most notorious" of all the bureaucracies the health care law created because it hands Medicare payment decisions over to an unelected board.

Congress can recommend different spending amounts, but has to offset any increase in one area with a decrease in another. If Congress doesn't change anything in the board's "recommendations" of how much should be spent per Medicare recipient, their recommendations become law — even without congressional approval or the president's signature.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/29/lame-duck-barney-frank-joins-effort-to-repeal-obamacare-death-panels/#ixzz1zLNXLwmC

A bipartisan group supported repealing the TRUE DEATH PANEL Oldtimer. So who is really lieing about them being in the Bill?

And Who was REALLY LIEING, I might add REPEATEDLY LIEING, to the public about whether the Mandate was a tax or not?

Who repeatedly claimed he was not going to raise taxes on the Middle Class only to pass several tax increases on the Middle Class in his signature bill Oldtimer?

Are you going to allow Obama to keep lieing to you or are you going to be a man and say enough is enough with the lieing and kick his butt to the curb or not? I'm betting you will drink the koolaid and vote to support the lieing as credibility doesn't seem to rate to high with you. :roll:

as compared to "end-of-life counseling" Obamacare provisions which former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin once deemed "death panels."

No Lie Tammy- that twit Palin was screaming death panels just over having someone tell people their rights.... Not sure if it was her just wanting to fear monger with her weak minded followers- or if she actually is that stupid- but she darn sure done it....

As far as the medical advisory panels- these have been needed according to Mayo Clinic and most of the major medical groups for some time...
And I definitely would rather have a panel of medical field appointees who prefer seeing people get well making those type decisions on what care to pay for- than like currently where a health insurance executive that would prefer you died so you quit costing them money is making those decisions...
 
That is a bet you will win Tam,,, as proof note oldtimer is still on his knees for obama
 
Oldtimer said:
Tam said:
Lame-duck Barney Frank joins effort to repeal Obamacare 'death panels'

Published: 12:20 PM 11/29/2011

By Matthew Boyle - The Daily Caller

NEWTON, MA - NOVEMBER 28: U.S. Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA) walks away from the podium after announcing he will not seek re-election at Newton City Hall November 28, 2011 in Newton, Massachusetts. Frank is a 16-term Democrat who last year helped pass the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Barney Frank announced on Tuesday his support for the repeal of the Independent Payment Advisory Board,
a significant portion of President Obama's health care overhaul.


Frank, who announced Monday that he would retire at the end of his current term in office, became the 12th Democrat, and the 212th member of the House, to co-sponsor Tennessee Republican Rep. Phil Roe's bill aimed at repealing the IPAB.

Frank is the most prominent Democrat to join Roe's bipartisan repeal effort.

IPAB is a 15-member board, appointed by the president, scheduled to convene in 2014. In order to reduce per capita Medicare spending, the board will recommend levels at which Medicare recipients, including seniors, can be reimbursed for health care expenses.

In March, Roe told The Daily Caller the IPAB is the "real death panel" in the health care law, as compared to "end-of-life counseling" Obamacare provisions which former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin once deemed "death panels."

"This one is the real baby right here — and most people missed this," Roe told TheDC then. "What everybody was talking about, when you saw Sarah Palin and so forth, what they were talking about these advanced directives where you sit down and there's sort of mandatory counseling — and Medicare paid for it. This IPAB got missed — and it's the real death panel."

The board would cap the total amount of money Medicare recipients could receive for care. Roe, a practicing physician before he entered politics, said health care decisions will ultimately be based solely on cost, instead of on the best possible health care outcomes for Medicare patients.

"Basically, there's a certain amount of money that's allocated for Medicare spending each year," Roe said in March. "Once you hit that amount that's been appropriated, this board, this bureaucratically appointed board, can then decide, not based on quality or need, but based on strictly cost."

According to Diane Cohen, the conservative Goldwater Institute's lead attorney covering Obamacare, IPAB is the "most notorious" of all the bureaucracies the health care law created because it hands Medicare payment decisions over to an unelected board.

Congress can recommend different spending amounts, but has to offset any increase in one area with a decrease in another. If Congress doesn't change anything in the board's "recommendations" of how much should be spent per Medicare recipient, their recommendations become law — even without congressional approval or the president's signature.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/29/lame-duck-barney-frank-joins-effort-to-repeal-obamacare-death-panels/#ixzz1zLNXLwmC

A bipartisan group supported repealing the TRUE DEATH PANEL Oldtimer. So who is really lieing about them being in the Bill?

And Who was REALLY LIEING, I might add REPEATEDLY LIEING, to the public about whether the Mandate was a tax or not?

Who repeatedly claimed he was not going to raise taxes on the Middle Class only to pass several tax increases on the Middle Class in his signature bill Oldtimer?

Are you going to allow Obama to keep lieing to you or are you going to be a man and say enough is enough with the lieing and kick his butt to the curb or not? I'm betting you will drink the koolaid and vote to support the lieing as credibility doesn't seem to rate to high with you. :roll:

as compared to "end-of-life counseling" Obamacare provisions which former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin once deemed "death panels."

No Lie Tammy- that twit Palin was screaming death panels just over having someone tell people their rights.... Not sure if it was her just wanting to fear monger with her weak minded followers- or if she actually is that stupid- but she darn sure done it....

As far as the medical advisory panels- these have been needed according to Mayo Clinic and most of the major medical groups for some time...
And I definitely would rather have a panel of medical field appointees who prefer seeing people get well making those type decisions on what care to pay for- than like currently where a health insurance executive that would prefer you died so you quit costing them money is making those decisions...
You've been drunk so long that you might not know but to keep you from making bigger fool out of yourself I feel compelled to inform you that Sarah Palin isn't even in office any more. Not even running for anything.
 

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