helping a calf nurse question - 10 below here

[dakotasky]

I'm looking for advice on helping a calf to nurse. My neighbor had a calf born at 2:00 pm yesterday and the cow has big tits. We saw the calf still searching for a tit his morning at 8:00 am so we had the cow in the calving pen and I milked just a couple ounces or so and got the calf to take it and then kept trying to switch it over to the tit. I'd get the tit in the mouth good, keep squeezing and know I got some milk in the calf because it gagged and then swallowed some. After a little while with me holding everything in the right spot and coaxing it to swallow, it did seem to drink a few swallows. The cow seemed to have enough with it all at that point and with both the cow and calf starting to fight me we determined that hopefully it knows where the milk is and we should let them be alone in their pen in the barn.

The calves ears are perky, and we plan to check in now and then to monitor and if we don't catch it nurse or see that she has been sucked, we'll give it colostrum supplement.

Are we doing the right thing by letting it try on its own again, should we have tried longer, and is that enough for the calf to get the idea and do it on its own once we leave it alone and it decides it's hungry?

Thanks for your feedback, I've learned a lot on Ranchers and just didn't find an old post to go off of.

 

[3words]

When i get a stupid calf that can't figure out how to drink on it's own,or because a cow has to big of tits.I put the cow in the headgate,and i help it suck until the calf has decided it is full.If the reason it couldn't figure out how to suck was because her tits were to big,i will milk the cow completly out after the calf is full so the swelling goes down.With cows like that,you might have to do that a couple of feedings before the swelling stays down permanently and the calf can get his mouth around them.

 

[Silver]

I agree with 3words, except I like to leave the calf a bit hungry going back out with the cow. A little hunger tends to be good motivation

 

[Anonymous]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

 

[Denny]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

You can't do that you've got to look at the numbers it's all about the numbers remember.

 

[gcreekrch]

I agree with 3words and Silver. Someone who would leave a calf hungry for 18 hours isn't much of a stockman IMO.

 

[Faster horses]

I agree with 3words and Silver. Someone who would leave a calf hungry for 18 hours isn't much of a stockman IMO.

I agree. Plus it's too late for colostrum to do any good at this point, although the calf needs nourishement for sure.

My advice is to be more on top of things from now on. When you see a big-teated cow, you better get her in as you are probably going
have to help the calf to suck. The sooner you do, the better. Then write them down and sell those old big teated cows when you can.

Good luck.

 

[Kato]

If they really can't handle the teat, it doesn't hurt to milk a bottle out and give it to the calf. At least it learns the skill of sucking, and when it catches on to that it will be easier to get it to go after the cow. Sometimes with the cow is too difficult to suck, they just give up. A bottle is easier, and seems to get them inspired.

Agree with milking the cow right out too. If she's just calved, you can freeze the colostrum, so it's far from a waste of time. Dairy cows stay off the line for three days after calving, so the colostrum is there longer than the calf even needs it. Might help prevent a potential case of mastitis as well.

 

[dakotasky]

Thanks. Calf is up nursing. No he's not a stockmen at all. His dad had a bad stroke and he took them over a few years ago. He gets by because I do the work as he lives 65 miles away and I have a lot of try, especially when it's someone else's cows. We have 10 in with his and they are sim-angus of xl Simmental and TNT simmentals, with olie, predestined and tanker genetics. Ours do have nice udders and teat sizes and the calves find those easy. If I were to suggest selling every cow of this sort then he would have to sell a third of his. They are not my cows and I don't want to put down his too much and hurt our relationship so I just help for the most part with a few suggestions. This farm is our one shot to stay in ag right now and so I work very hard at it, plus work full time, my wife works full time and we have 2 girls under 3. We stay with it because we believe in hard work and know the positive values and appreciation for what we have that it can instill in our children. We would do a lot of things different but right now until we make our own opportunity I'm just trying to help. Thanks for your help, there is a ton of experience here and I use it as a resource often.

 

[Soapweed]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

It's nice to find some common ground that we plumb agree on, Oldtimer. :wink: The problem with "helping" a calf get started on a cow like this is that by fall she will be forgotten about, and will still be in the herd the next spring. Then it will be the same thing to deal with once again.

Our method for "slow" calves like this is to drench them fairly soon after birth with powdered colostrum, then give them plenty of time to figure out how to suck their momma. They usually do, but if the cow needs to be captured and messed with, it's a short term deal. The cow will be picked to be sold, and the calf will be first on a list to be grafted onto another suitable cow if and when the occasion arises. Be culling harshly in this manner for many years, it's really not much of a problem anymore.

One problem with completely milking out a cow when her calf is not big enough or hungry enough to keep her completely sucked out, is that she will need to be milked out twice a day until the calf can hold all the milk. If she is milked once, her bag will spoil if this isn't continued. If a calf is only able to suck a couple teats for a few days, and the other two haven't been messed with and exposed to air, when the calf gets hungrier and more aggressive all will be well with the other two quarters.

 

[dakotasky]

Thank you Soapweed, I'm making notes on the cows as we go through calving and I hope he'll be receptive to some stronger culling. History is that he only culls after a problem and not before it happens even though things like this are easy enough to see beforehand. Cull cow prices are so strong that now is when culling should be harshest.

 

[canadian angus]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

Never have agreed with Oldtimer on many things but I do at this one!

CA

 

[Soapweed]

Thank you Soapweed, I'm making notes on the cows as we go through calving and I hope he'll be receptive to some stronger culling. History is that he only culls after a problem and not before it happens even though things like this are easy enough to see beforehand. Cull cow prices are so strong that now is when culling should be harshest.

Yes, weigh-up cow prices are very high right now, and so are prices being paid for baby calves. One real good solution would be to take the cow/calf pair to a sale barn and split them to sell individually. The total of the check would be astounding.

 

[Anonymous]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

It's nice to find some common ground that we plumb agree on, Oldtimer. :wink: The problem with "helping" a calf get started on a cow like this is that by fall she will be forgotten about, and will still be in the herd the next spring. Then it will be the same thing to deal with once again.

Our method for "slow" calves like this is to drench them fairly soon after birth with powdered colostrum, then give them plenty of time to figure out how to suck their momma. They usually do, but if the cow needs to be captured and messed with, it's a short term deal. The cow will be picked to be sold, and the calf will be first on a list to be grafted onto another suitable cow if and when the occasion arises. Be culling harshly in this manner for many years, it's really not much of a problem anymore.

One problem with completely milking out a cow when her calf is not big enough or hungry enough to keep her completely sucked out, is that she will need to be milked out twice a day until the calf can hold all the milk. If she is milked once, her bag will spoil if this isn't continued. If a calf is only able to suck a couple teats for a few days, and the other two haven't been messed with and exposed to air, when the calf gets hungrier and more aggressive all will be well with the other two quarters.

Well I learned the hard way- back when I was listening to the college professors preach "bigger, better, faster" and the A.I. outfits preach you had to use the "bull of the month"...
But about 15 years ago I got tired of it and decided I wanted cows that would work for me- not the other way around... So we went for programs and genetics rather than numbers... Now have taken care of a lot of those old problems which has made for a much more fun adventure...

 

[3words]

Thank you Soapweed, I'm making notes on the cows as we go through calving and I hope he'll be receptive to some stronger culling. History is that he only culls after a problem and not before it happens even though things like this are easy enough to see beforehand. Cull cow prices are so strong that now is when culling should be harshest.

Yes, weigh-up cow prices are very high right now, and so are prices being paid for baby calves. One real good solution would be to take the cow/calf pair to a sale barn and split them to sell individually. The total of the check would be astounding.

That is defiantly one thing i miss by our auction mart closing years ago,next closest one is a couple hours away.Our local stockyards just deals with cows,bulls and weaned calves.

 

[Denny]

Thank you Soapweed, I'm making notes on the cows as we go through calving and I hope he'll be receptive to some stronger culling. History is that he only culls after a problem and not before it happens even though things like this are easy enough to see beforehand. Cull cow prices are so strong that now is when culling should be harshest.

Yes, weigh-up cow prices are very high right now, and so are prices being paid for baby calves. One real good solution would be to take the cow/calf pair to a sale barn and split them to sell individually. The total of the check would be astounding.

That is defiantly one thing i miss by our auction mart closing years ago,next closest one is a couple hours away.Our local stockyards just deals with cows,bulls and weaned calves.

That must suck I've got one 5 miles away and 2 others within 50 miles and 6 more at 60 to 110 miles

 

[PPRM]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

Never have agreed with Oldtimer on many things but I do at this one!

CA

LOL, we have a School teacher friend that called regarding a cow prolapsing after calving. Vet couldn't come right out. I was 3 hours away and couldn't help. I assured him it wasn't life or death and she'd be fine until the vet got there.

Next day, The wife told him to be certain to sell that cow. He said, "Yeah, luckily it was a heifer calf she had!"

Here's your sign ;-}

 

[littlejoe]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

It's nice to find some common ground that we plumb agree on, Oldtimer. :wink: The problem with "helping" a calf get started on a cow like this is that by fall she will be forgotten about, and will still be in the herd the next spring. Then it will be the same thing to deal with once again.

Our method for "slow" calves like this is to drench them fairly soon after birth with powdered colostrum, then give them plenty of time to figure out how to suck their momma. They usually do, but if the cow needs to be captured and messed with, it's a short term deal. The cow will be picked to be sold, and the calf will be first on a list to be grafted onto another suitable cow if and when the occasion arises. Be culling harshly in this manner for many years, it's really not much of a problem anymore.

One problem with completely milking out a cow when her calf is not big enough or hungry enough to keep her completely sucked out, is that she will need to be milked out twice a day until the calf can hold all the milk. If she is milked once, her bag will spoil if this isn't continued. If a calf is only able to suck a couple teats for a few days, and the other two haven't been messed with and exposed to air, when the calf gets hungrier and more aggressive all will be well with the other two quarters.

I've always offered to pay my wife 10 cents an hour more if she'll carry a pocket knife at all times. She says she ain't gonna worry about a dime an hour job, total. Anyway, if you whack her tail off clear back to where the bone starts---it's an 'adios' reminder around here.

 

[littlejoe]

Yes, weigh-up cow prices are very high right now, and so are prices being paid for baby calves. One real good solution would be to take the cow/calf pair to a sale barn and split them to sell individually. The total of the check would be astounding.

That is defiantly one thing i miss by our auction mart closing years ago,next closest one is a couple hours away.Our local stockyards just deals with cows,bulls and weaned calves.

That must suck I've got one 5 miles away and 2 others within 50 miles and 6 more at 60 to 110 miles

and i'll bet every damn one of them ain't at 2.75% commission.

 

[Silver]

Then sell this cow before she has another calf and get one with genetics with maternal qualities like nice udder and small teats...
Good old range cow maternal genetics can save a person a lot of work...

Never have agreed with Oldtimer on many things but I do at this one!

CA

LOL, we have a School teacher friend that called regarding a cow prolapsing after calving. Vet couldn't come right out. I was 3 hours away and couldn't help. I assured him it wasn't life or death and she'd be fine until the vet got there.

Next day, The wife told him to be certain to sell that cow. He said, "Yeah, luckily it was a heifer calf she had!"

Here's your sign ;-}

I would have kept them both if I liked them. Guess I better get a sign.