Hereford compliments Angus

[SMN Herf]

I took a great deal of intersest in the post by Hereford76 about some of the reasons why people would not use Hereford bulls on their Angus based cows. Here is a link to some of the newest research that the AHA is doing on the effects of using Hereford bulls on Angus influenced cows in cooperation with Lacey Livestock, Harris Feedig Co. and Harris Ranch beef Co.

The study that Dalve Daley talks about put 10 Hereford bulls, horned and polled, and 10 Angus bulls in with 400 primarily Angus influenced cows and then tracked these calves all the way through every phase of the production cycle to the packing house and did an economic analysis on the Hereford sired and Angus sired calves.

For those who dont want to take the time to listen to Dave, the Hereford sired cattle had an big advantage in ADG, feed efficiency, mortality and cost of gain.

The final analysis showed the Hereford sired steers had a about $75 net advantage over the Angus sired steers. In fact the only category that the Angus sired steers had over the crossbred was in quality grade.

The link is:

http://www.herefordyoungguns.com/2007sessions/whyhereford.html

Click on Dave Daley and you will be able to listen to his report of the first year of the study.

The first part talks about a lot of the background of why Lacy ranch and Harris Ranch wanted to impliment a crossbreeding system into their operations, the backgrounds of the researchers and the methods they used. I found it very interesting the reasons why an outfit like Laceys was looking for a way to crossbreed their high percentage Angus cows. It mirrors some of the reasons why people got away from the straight Hereford females of 20 years ago. The last 10 minutes he gets into the numbers of the study.

This is only one study beeing done on this subject. Circle A out of Missouri and Amana colonies out of Iowa are doing similar studies.

I would love to hear your comments.

Brian

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Don't want to start a fight but it always seems the Hereford talking the benefits of Hereford on Angus.

How many Hereford breeders see that it could work the other way?

 

[jigs]

I plan on getting a black bull this year, just for heifers, and this damned black hide bias we are fighting.... gonna keep the Herferd line though, just what I prefere to see here at home.

 

[Northern Rancher]

BMR obviously somebody somewhere has got the breed blinders off because there's alot of good baldy calves around. The oldtimers claim an Angus bull on a Hereford cow gives you a better baldie but I haven't seen that to be true here. If you go buy a few Hereford bulls I know somebody will snap up those baldie heifers lol. Angus breeders had to suck the hind tit for a long time I don't blame them for enjoying their status as the ordained breed. We ran them long before they were cool.

 

[Jason]

A number of ranches up that crossbreed baldies here prefer an Angus cow base running Hereford bulls. The ease of maintanance on the black cows overall is the reason, no sunburn etc.

However the demand for black cows is higher than the supply.

Most of the Hereford outfits are running Angus herds now, and some of the good older Angus breeders are done with the politics and BS of the purebred thing.

I have noticed the "new" breeders (Herfs running blacks) get taken quite often by a few of the big showring Angus breeders. I bought the older cows from a breeder that was tired of cows..he was only in the blacks about 7 years, the big name cows are the worst of the bunch.

If the popularity of Angus was just a fad and not backed by quality beef, the breed would already have peaked. I think the drop in popularity for Herfs has and will be a good thing for them, make the remaining cattle better. A good quality baldie is definately a better animal than a mediocre Angus or Hereford. The trouble is mediocre parents don't produce good quality baldies.

 

[SMN Herf]

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:10 am Post subject:

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Don't want to start a fight but it always seems the Hereford talking the benefits of Hereford on Angus.

How many Hereford breeders see that it could work the other way?

Edit: The Hereford breeders sure can't expect the Angus guys to promote crossbreeding. In fact they are very much against it. I have had Angus breeders tell me that the Angus genepool is so diverse that all the heterosis needed can be found within the Angus breed!

I don't profess that anyone should run straight bred cows whether they be Hereford or Angus. Your leaving too much money on the table.

In other words if you have Hereford cows, breed them Angus and if you got Angus cows, breed them Hereford.


Brian

 

[Northern Rancher]

You know that's a pretty simple formula that's worked for generations but it still is hard for some to grasp. EVERY breed has got some horror stories and bad cattle-our job as beef producers is to sort through them and find the ones that work. Profitability is much more than topping the Tuesday sale at XYZ Auction mart by three cents-it is however all anybody talks about. The best way to double your money in the cattle busness is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket-crossbred cattle usually are a bit more thrifty to run at least at my place anyways.

 

[Doug Thorson]

How many Hereford breeders see that it could work the other way?

The reason I am a Hereford breeder is I am so biased towards a baldie(I prefer black but I suspect red would be every bit as good) that I think 70% of the cows in the country should be baldies. The remaining 30% would be for seedstock and straightbred cows to produce your baldies.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

This is good. We are having a discussion and nobody has called any one names or insulted someones spouse.

Our ranch ran yearlings of every color for many years. I guess i got started in the blacks because we ran fewer of them and i got started buying the blacks.I have dehorned and castrated so many cattle that I never want to own a horned animal again. Also I think the hereford were some of the best and some of the worst cattle we ever owned. There is poor quality in every breed but herefords had gone down hill in our area. I started buying some black hfrs. to build a cow herd, added to it with some PB blacks and bought the kind of bulls i wanted. I even went to Montana for bulls as many offered here were bigger bulls then my grass could support. I raise most of the bulls I use on my commercial cows and buy a new bull to multiply every year or so to with my own PB herd.
I am developing a market for my hfrs. I know Kola got bawled out for telling people to raise what they enjoy raising but I feel that way and I see jigs feels the same.
Do what you need to do for your own operation. I do. Got to much to do to worry what the neighbor are doing.

 

[Northern Rancher]

How could there possibly be poor cattle south of Number One highway everybody knows there isn't a real rancher or cowboy north of there lol. Sorry I had to take a shot lol. Finding herds to raise baldies from are hard to find but yours sure would work.

 

[kolanuraven]

My small little personal herd of reg Angus here I'm thinking about switching to a polled herf bull next breeding.

Why you ask? Well, my market was Mom& Pop people and in the last few years those small reg herds have disappeared & my market has all but dried up, as I sell 100% private treaty. It's what I know.

There is sooooo much development that either Mom & Pop have sold out or when the kids got a'hold of it, they weren't gonna mess with the cows.

So I'm thinking of pulling a few of my Angus girls and getting them a bi-colored beau and just sell the baldie calves commercially.

Ya never know till ya try it!! So, I'm 90% sure that's what I plan to do.


BMR: People just love to hate me it seems. :wink: But, alas...I shall not leave!! :lol: :lol:

 

[Jake]

We personally run angus bulls on high% angus cows. There is a very strong demand in our area for straightbred black heifers as the black fad is really going strong. There are a few more hereford bulls showing up now that a majority of herds are high % black.

Another big problem in our herd is that hereford calves bring $10-20 less than similiar quality black calves. With the red carriers we have from our old red angus, simmi, and few hererfords we run a very high chance of having a hereford looking calves, which in our area is an automatic $50 loss per head.

I will say that a baldie cow is the best cow there is out there, but in some areas/operations they just aren't feasible to make or purchase.

 

[Hereford76]

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:10 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't want to start a fight but it always seems the Hereford talking the benefits of Hereford on Angus.

How many Hereford breeders see that it could work the other way?

Edit: The Hereford breeders sure can't expect the Angus guys to promote crossbreeding. In fact they are very much against it. I have had Angus breeders tell me that the Angus genepool is so diverse that all the heterosis needed can be found within the Angus breed!

I don't profess that anyone should run straight bred cows whether they be Hereford or Angus. Your leaving too much money on the table.

In other words if you have Hereford cows, breed them Angus and if you got Angus cows, breed them Hereford.


Brian

In the words of Big Muddy Rancher "Not to start an arguement but..." :lol:

when was the angus association lying? Back when they promoted heterosis and told everyone use a black bull. Or now when they tell you not to cause they can get it within their own breed.

 

[Carter]

I'm new to the beef world as I was raised on a dairy and just recently sold the holsteins. We've always had a few stocker calves but it seems to me that that black and baldy calves sale almost the best but that smoke colored cattle sell really well also. I'm buying F1 tigerstripe cows and putting angus bulls on them. Been talking to several people with brangus and they like the angus bulls on them to kinda shorten the ear and get a little less sheath. Sometimes some hereford to get a few baldies. but the calves out of the tigers come out baldy and they make awesome cows as long as you are set up to handle them when you pen them.

 

[jigs]

I guess with this black movement, everyone is gonna dump the Herfs.

so anyone wanting out of the Herfs, just pm me, and I will buy or lease them from ya....... one mans trash/ another mans pleasure! (and that last part was no way intended as a slam at you Kola!)

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

How could there possibly be poor cattle south of Number One highway everybody knows there isn't a real rancher or cowboy north of there lol. Sorry I had to take a shot lol. Finding herds to raise baldies from are hard to find but yours sure would work.

Don't worry NR some of them came from North of the #1. :wink:

Plenty of poor cattle to go around. What I can't figure is how the guy with a couple of hundred cows or more can have a fairly even herd even if they are cross bred but some guys with 20 to 40 can't even get 2 cows to look the same. :???:

I guess I'm getting lazy in my old age but I would use your bull but I know I would get some horns and I'm not about to create more work. I told a prominent Limo breeder I was going to use Hereford and he about fell off his chair. Could use his bulls as he is in a branded program but my wife and kids would leave if i used Limo bulls. Heck i might even leave. :shock:

 

[Faster horses]

We run Black Angus bulls on Black Angus cows.
And we think the Black Angus Cow is the best out there.

But I respect anyone and everyone for what they want to run on their place.

Anyone who takes the time to read what is posted here will
realize there is more than one way to skin a cat...successfully.
Lots of successful ranchers/farmers here and I enjoy reading
what you have to say. You should never be too old to learn.

AZ cowpunchers, tho...now that's another story... :shock: :wink:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:10 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't want to start a fight but it always seems the Hereford talking the benefits of Hereford on Angus.

How many Hereford breeders see that it could work the other way?

Edit: The Hereford breeders sure can't expect the Angus guys to promote crossbreeding. In fact they are very much against it. I have had Angus breeders tell me that the Angus genepool is so diverse that all the heterosis needed can be found within the Angus breed!

I don't profess that anyone should run straight bred cows whether they be Hereford or Angus. Your leaving too much money on the table.

In other words if you have Hereford cows, breed them Angus and if you got Angus cows, breed them Hereford.


Brian

In the words of Big Muddy Rancher "Not to start an arguement but..." :lol:

when was the angus association lying? Back when they promoted heterosis and told everyone use a black bull. Or now when they tell you not to cause they can get it within their own breed.

Maybe they are just changing with the times. Back when they promoted heterois Angus were angus. Now maybe they figure the gene pool has grown as many question if angus are angus. Yes I'm an angus breeder.

 

[Shelly]

Edit: The Hereford breeders sure can't expect the Angus guys to promote crossbreeding. In fact they are very much against it. I have had Angus breeders tell me that the Angus genepool is so diverse that all the heterosis needed can be found within the Angus breed!

I don't profess that anyone should run straight bred cows whether they be Hereford or Angus. Your leaving too much money on the table.

In other words if you have Hereford cows, breed them Angus and if you got Angus cows, breed them Hereford.


Brian

In the words of Big Muddy Rancher "Not to start an arguement but..." :lol:

when was the angus association lying? Back when they promoted heterosis and told everyone use a black bull. Or now when they tell you not to cause they can get it within their own breed.

Maybe they are just changing with the times. Back when they promoted heterois Angus were angus. Now maybe they figure the gene pool has grown as many question if angus are angus. Yes I'm an angus breeder.

I'm kinda wondering what else is in some of these Anguses that are being passed off as purebreds also. The black angus bull we bought this spring sure doesn't look like no purebred Angus I've ever seen!

 

[Northern Rancher]

The hating to dehorn is a pretty weak argument if your using a Horned bull on straight angus cows a bottle of paste will go a longgg longgg way. I'm fat and lazy and I wire saw my horns off at yearling so not getting that many lol.I can't believe so many people are missing a chance to snap up these worthless Hereford females to breed them black lol. To each their own I guess. There's going to be a couple thousand yearlings sell here on Monday I'll maybe slip in and see how they sell. I have a feeling the good cattle of any colour will sell within pennies of each other.