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Hereford compliments Angus

If I could get the higher up here to go along with it I know I'd either use herford bulls because I like baldies and they should still be black hided or as I said in another post I'd consider trying some Charlaios bulls on the angus black beauty cows roaming around this place. The main reason it appears the higher up here doesn't want the herfords is he's really fond of his straight angus girls. However, as my brother pointed out possibly bringing in some cross breeding would encourage higher weening weights and after all we are in the business of selling carasses that gain more value the heiver they are.
 
Faster horses said:
Don't lose sight of the fact that you are in the business to MAKE MONEY.

Heavier doesn't always equate to more profit.
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It is a good point about not always is more weight more money but a producer is producing 575 calves it seems to pay to try and get 600.


What is everyone's opinion about selling all natural? We have for two years and can't say we saw a premium. This year we decided not to and didn't notice it costing us a thing either. Has anyone made more selling all natural?
 
I think profit minded. It is costing more all the time to ranch. With the cost of fuel, feed, and hay one has to be watching the money during the production period of calves until they are sold. Sure a goal is to produce quality cattle that grade well, but a lot of decisions have to be business minded and come down to the all mighty dollar. JMHO
 
Remember calving ease has a lot to do with profitability. At least it does
on our place. Big, dead calves don't pay many bills.

All-natural...I think that is an illusive program. I don't know of anyone that has sold higher on an all-natural program. I do know of ranchers
who were told AFTER they sold that they could have gotten more if
they were on an all-natural program...and told by another buyer, not
the one getting the calves.

Kinda like the guy who usually goes to the bar on the east end of town and has a Crown Royal every day. One day he went there and they were
out. So he visited the bar on the west end of town and ordered a Crown Royal. When they brought him the drink and told him it was $3.00, he
replied "Gosh, it's only $2.00 at the bar on the east side."

They asked him why he wasn't drinking there then.

He said, "they are out of Crown Royal."

The reply was, "OH. Well, when we are out, Crown Royal only costs
$1.00 here."
 
Faster horses said:
Remember calving ease has a lot to do with profitability. At least it does
on our place. Big, dead calves don't pay many bills.

All-natural...I think that is an illusive program. I don't know of anyone that has sold higher on an all-natural program. I do know of ranchers
who were told AFTER they sold that they could have gotten more if
they were on an all-natural program...and told by another buyer, not
the one getting the calves.
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AMEN on the calving ease- and live calves...The reason I'll take those little 70 lbers over the 90-100lbers...In nasty weather the little ones jump up and live-- some of those big dummies lie there and die...

And I disagree on the all-natural...I've seen many times when the top prices went to the calves that you would sign an all natural (no implants-no antibiotics) program-- and even more if they had their shots...And a lot of the return buyers asking for it...

Calves coming from the same family- same pasture---- both with all the shots--Dad implanted, son didn't-- sons calves brought several dollars more with the all natural affidavit...A couple of buyers would not even talk to the Dad when they found out he implanted.....
 
FH,

Direct market has gotten me well over a $300.00 premium on all natural...

The mistake most people make is thinking all natural is enough. People tht pay more for this beef not only want to feel good about the choice, they want a dang great steak, burger or roast,

Takes some work, but I am enjoying it,

PPRM
 
Jake
Member



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 190
Location: at the computer desk
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject:

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We personally run angus bulls on high% angus cows. There is a very strong demand in our area for straightbred black heifers as the black fad is really going strong. There are a few more hereford bulls showing up now that a majority of herds are high % black.

Another big problem in our herd is that hereford calves bring $10-20 less than similiar quality black calves. With the red carriers we have from our old red angus, simmi, and few hererfords we run a very high chance of having a hereford looking calves, which in our area is an automatic $50 loss per head.

I will say that a baldie cow is the best cow there is out there, but in some areas/operations they just aren't feasible to make or purchase.
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I understand that there is strong demand for the black female. But I could say the very same thing about a bunch of Bwf, rwf and even Hereford females too, IF they are good ones. I assist my customers in marketing their females out of my bulls. Last year one customer sold the Hereford heifers right off the place privately to a guy. He guaranteed him the same money that the blacks and baldys would bring at the sale. At the sale that week, the baldys brought $30/hd more than the all black heifers.

Jake, using your numbers, if you had 100 cows with 20% red carriers, only half of those calves would have red calves, so you would have 10 calves that received a $50 discount, but if you gained $75/head on the other calves, you would still be $7000 ahead. 100 x $75 =7500 - (10 x$50) = 7000.

If the baldy calf does so well then IMO there would have to be significant efficiencies in the cowherd too as that is where the benefits of heterosis are supposed to be the largest.

Brian
 
In non - agricultural business " thinking outside the box" is a popular term. They are saying you have to think differently. We in ranching have a terrible time thinking outside the box. This past year I have met two ranchers in my area that are using Wygau cattle and making a lot of money. Now these cows are sorry looking , slow growing , horned ,mouse grey cattle that none of us would want on our place. One rancher is air freighting them over here from Japan at a cost of $3,000 each. They are crossing them with angus, feeding them out in Iowa and selling them on the rail back east for $3,500 to $5,000 each. They are not little hobby operations. One runs 1,200 cows the other that many or more. My point here is, things in the cattle business are changing rapidly. If we intend to be profitable in the cattle business long term, we will be making some rapid changes. The decision Hereford or Angus bull won't
be a major decision. What's under that hide will be.
 
If the baldy calf does so well then IMO there would have to be significant efficiencies in the cowherd too
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As I have posted before, 4$ corn should be the best thing that happened to Herefords. I don't know that it will be but it should be.
 
Doug you may be right, but with high priced fats and 4 dollar corn the cost of gain is still less than the price of fats. So it will pay to go to the heavier carcass wt. If you have carcass data and feed convertions on your cattle you will be in the drivers seat.
 
We sold calves to a "natural" grassfed outfit for the last two years and saw no premium for the calves at all. I was against it the whole time, but they were close and we didn't have to haul them.

I think if you are marketing the meat yourself, its probably fine. But I dont think most producers are seeing a premium from their natural calves. It's more a term for the buyer to use when he markets the cattle.

Plus then you get a hand full of calves that you doctored and you get less for them just cause there aren't as many to market.

If you can't tell, I am not much of a fan of the term natural!!???!!!!
 
What happens to the 'nautural' calves that get sick and are
doctored in the feedlot?
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Most times the whole pen gets doctored and took out of the natural program. That is why natural calves hardly ever get a premium. Yearlings on the other hand sometimes get a large premium because they rarely get sick in the lot.
 
Faster horses said:
I have a question, and it is one that an order buyer posed to me.

What happens to the 'nautural' calves that get sick and are
doctored in the feedlot? Do you think anyone keeps track of them?
Really??????????
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Our local feedlots pull sick calves out of pens every day-- those calves that are doctored go in the "sick pens"-get a red ear tag- so when they do return to main pens they are cutback and not sold with an "all natural" label....One lot keeps all the "doctored" separate......
They also red tag any of the yearlings they doctor on the range....

I think the BQA, all natural and all that really caught on up here because of Future Beef...Remember we had a local producer that was a big investor in (and lost several million $ in) Future Beef-even built a new 10,000 head feedlot to handle Future Beef cattle-- so they did a lot of buying in our area....They offered fantastic premiums and top prices- so many jumped on board with the program (which included they had to be vaccinated and all natural)...After FB went under- folks went searching for other programs they could jump into (some went Lauras Lean) and it brought in more buyers that wanted All Natural... Before that I had not seen that many that even vaccinated in the fall-- but it kind of got the ball rolling and more and more jumped on board as they saw they could make more or line up a steady outlet for their calves...
 

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