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Hereford EPDs

Katrina there's no such thing as a stupid question-only stupid answers. John Crouch of the American Angus Association summed it up it up probably the best-if I remember right he told us "The formula to calculate epd's is like the engine in a foreign car-you can look at it and not understand how it works but trust me it does work." This was a few years back when less traits were being quantified-basically the performance records of the animal and all his ancestors are churned through a computer and compared to the rest of the breed.
 
I can jump in a bit and add to the confusion.
The HE EPD are calculated using member data from Canada, the US and now South America. Animal records are adjusted for things such as age at weaning, age of dam, twin, etc. An animal's individual performance records are only ever directly compared to animals in the same contemporary group (same herd, sex, management from birth, etc).
The evaluation then looks at differences (example, a calf that weans 100 pounds heavier than group average) and the proportion of that difference that can be explained by genetics (heritability). The difference is now strictly a genetic difference between animals in the contemporary group. The system also uses related information to help improve the prediction on traits of interest. For example, we know some of the genes that make bigger weaning weights, can also result in increased birth weight, so that relationship is used in calculating the EPD.
Because the comparison is now on a genetic level (through the use of contemporary groups) the animals can now be connected using the pedigrees as a giant spider web connecting herds and cattle over time.
I will have to check, but I believe the Hereford base is established so that the animals that come out as the foundation of the pedigree tree average around zero and then genetic trend (genetic change) takes care of where we are at today in terms of breed average.
As we gather more information, the accuracy increases. This could include progeny records, grandprogeny, added weaning and yearling weights, or even gene markers moving forward.
An EPD on a yearling bull is no better or worse than his actual weight, but an EPD is better for creating genetic change (we can argue about progress) because it has most of the environmental influences removed and shows more of the true genetic component. In other words we are more likely to pick cattle that move in the direction we want because most of the environmental confusion is removed.
As a side note, milk is a stupidly named EPD since it is actually more like maternal influence and contains the genetic components of enhanced weaning weight that are unexplained by growth genetics. Think of it as added pounds at weaning because of the mom being a good mother (although it is highly related to milk production).
Most breeds try to maintain consistency in appearance whenever they make an evaluation change, to prevent confusion in the commercial user of the EPD.
Last - GOALS and BALANCE. We know EPDs work to create change because we all bench about the changes that are being made.
 
Try here...
http://www.hereford.org/Acrobat/Perf/F09_Trend.pdf

Look on page 6 for the averages for yearling/two year old bulls.

I always figure around 2 is a good number to carry around in your head for BWT and CE on heifers (2 or lower for BWT, 2 or higher for CE). Depends a bit on how you run your cows.
 
Look at your Genex catalogue Katrina the breed average EPD's for every breed is at the bottom of the page. I think you know the bull to use on heifers-crosses my fingers.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Look at your Genex catalogue Katrina the breed average EPD's for every breed is at the bottom of the page. I think you know the bull to use on heifers-crosses my fingers.
Click to expand...

Nr..... I certainly do....... 8)

Okay.... I'll look at my book....
 
Northern Rancher said:
Look at your Genex catalogue Katrina the breed average EPD's for every breed is at the bottom of the page. I think you know the bull to use on heifers-crosses my fingers.
Click to expand...

Pimp :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(but probably right)
 
RSL said:
Northern Rancher said:
Look at your Genex catalogue Katrina the breed average EPD's for every breed is at the bottom of the page. I think you know the bull to use on heifers-crosses my fingers.
Click to expand...

Pimp :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(but probably right)
Click to expand...

I have to go haul hay now.... So I'll do a little research and get back to ya.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Look at your Genex catalogue Katrina the breed average EPD's for every breed is at the bottom of the page. I think you know the bull to use on heifers-crosses my fingers.
Click to expand...

I will have a report for you next year as well - should start coming around mid April

And - there is nothing wrong with pimping - someone has to provide the service......

BC
 
Most of the epds among all breeds are calcuated off of a standard formula that was based on standards of the BIF. Now over the years each association has made adjustments to their formula for various reasons.

For instance, I was told by a Hereford breeder who also runs angus and keeps track of all that stuff that the Angus association decided to do larger adjustments for age of dam for 205 day weights than say what Herefords do.

As far as what I am looking for, I like to see my cow bulls under 4.0 BW and my heifer bulls under 1 for BW. I like quite a bit of calving ease though. It really comes down to how close you like to watch the heifers though. A lot of the 2.0 BW bulls may average a low birthweight, but they will tend to throw a bigger calf once in a while. You need to realize that a 100 lb calf averaged with a 60 lb calf averages out to 80 lbs and since epds are based on averages a bull could still have a pretty low BW epd.

I am curious as to why you are asking this question when I see you have used some Hereford bulls in the past. Did you end up with a problem?

Brian
 
SMN Herf said:
Most of the epds among all breeds are calcuated off of a standard formula that was based on standards of the BIF. Now over the years each association has made adjustments to their formula for various reasons.

For instance, I was told by a Hereford breeder who also runs angus and keeps track of all that stuff that the Angus association decided to do larger adjustments for age of dam for 205 day weights than say what Herefords do.

As far as what I am looking for, I like to see my cow bulls under 4.0 BW and my heifer bulls under 1 for BW. I like quite a bit of calving ease though. It really comes down to how close you like to watch the heifers though. A lot of the 2.0 BW bulls may average a low birthweight, but they will tend to throw a bigger calf once in a while. You need to realize that a 100 lb calf averaged with a 60 lb calf averages out to 80 lbs and since epds are based on averages a bull could still have a pretty low BW epd.

I am curious as to why you are asking this question when I see you have used some Hereford bulls in the past. Did you end up with a problem?

Brian
Click to expand...

The adjustment factors most breeds use in their evaluations are no longer linear and the HE evaluation age adjustments are a good example. The adjustments, heritabilities, etc. are all calculated from the HE dataset. Additionally, a lot of evaluations are now multi-breed and account for heterosis, maternal influence, etc. All that aside the technology is not really rocket science, but the technical nuances are pretty significant. The biggest and most noticeable impact is probably where breeds choose to set their base EPD. That is a marketing decision, not a technical one. :lol:
 
SMN Herf said:
Most of the epds among all breeds are calcuated off of a standard formula that was based on standards of the BIF. Now over the years each association has made adjustments to their formula for various reasons.

For instance, I was told by a Hereford breeder who also runs angus and keeps track of all that stuff that the Angus association decided to do larger adjustments for age of dam for 205 day weights than say what Herefords do.

As far as what I am looking for, I like to see my cow bulls under 4.0 BW and my heifer bulls under 1 for BW. I like quite a bit of calving ease though. It really comes down to how close you like to watch the heifers though. A lot of the 2.0 BW bulls may average a low birthweight, but they will tend to throw a bigger calf once in a while. You need to realize that a 100 lb calf averaged with a 60 lb calf averages out to 80 lbs and since epds are based on averages a bull could still have a pretty low BW epd.

I am curious as to why you are asking this question when I see you have used some Hereford bulls in the past. Did you end up with a problem?

Brian
Click to expand...

No problems..... We had great bulls..... I just have to depend on the advise of others and I want to be able to look at the epds and know what I'm looking at.. Plus I want to A.I
I know angus epds, I just want to get my head into the hereford better thats all.... And who else to ask then right here on ranchers....
 

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