How many cows does it take

[gcreekrch]

AngusCowboy- sounds like a plan. Not much you can do in Feb. and March so why not calve. When you sell those steers the 1st of Jan for $1300.00 you can smile all the way to the bank.

I think when Big Swede sells his in January for $1150 with $200 less cost in them I'll probably see the brightness of his grin from here. :wink: :lol:

Just curious gcreekch but these may calves that are going to bring $1150,when would they be weaned?I hope you are right about the prices!!

Big Swede may correct me but I believe he weans in late October.

650 lbs x $1.77? The way things are going it's not an impossibility.

 

[gcreekrch]

AngusCowboy- sounds like a plan. Not much you can do in Feb. and March so why not calve. When you sell those steers the 1st of Jan for $1300.00 you can smile all the way to the bank.

I think when Big Swede sells his in January for $1150 with $200 less cost in them I'll probably see the brightness of his grin from here. :wink: :lol:

Just curious gcreekch but these may calves that are going to bring $1150,when would they be weaned?I hope you are right about the prices!!

Big Swede may correct me but I believe he weans in late October.


650 lb. x $1.77 is not an impossibility for the right cattle.

 

[BRG]

I can understand why you want to calve early, as it sounds like you are pretty busy farming during the months some are saying you should calve. You need to run what your ranch labor lets you do. It will take more labor to calve in Feb than May, but if you are in the field the entire time farming, then maybe Feb. would be best. Only thing I would change is the breed. Run Red Angus and then I could get to know you a bit

 

[ND Farmer]

lol Brg we have red cross cows, does that count. I for one would like to get to know ya. I think you would be a pretty interesting gent to talk to and get to know.

 

[Big Swede]

If feed was cheap I could almost see the logic of calving in Jan if you had the facilities and the energy to put every cow through the barn. Hell, start in Dec or Nov even they would be even bigger. :roll: But to feed a lactating cow enough to keep herself warm, nurse her calf and be ready to cycle in time with $200 and up hay in my mind is crazy if you don't mind me saying so. But hey whatever works for you.

 

[lefty]

300 caws calving @ 80% in 21 days is 240 calves thats 11.5 calves a day . there might be a day in there you could get 40 calves or better . Thats a big job in cold weather . I am not saying not 2 . Its what ever works for you .

 

[George]

A much younger ( 31 ) neighbor has about 100 cows and he built a new calving barn and starts all his in Dec and tries to be done by the end of Jan

I guess it works for him but he is constantly with the cows in the cold - - - has 20 nice stalls - - - I just don't want to work that hard - - - he feels he makes extra money as his calves are ready when few others are.

He moves cows so often he can just about park a trailer in the middle of a field and watch them load up - - - not really but close.

 

[Roundup]

In general an economic unit is considered about 350 head for a cow/calf operation. I think it can be much less if you actually own the cows and are not running them for the bank. Same for the ranch mortgage, the larger it is the more head it may take to make the payments.

As far as when to calve, depends on facilities, terrain etc. Seedstock providing ranches oftentimes calve earlier to have the bull calves a year old for the March auctions ( in the western states ). Other than that feeder calve producers seem to be all over the board and can serve the various fall/winter markets from September through January. There are quality ranches , many with differing opinions and all can work.

My biggest advice is to increase at a rate that fits your return and be careful running herds for the bank. Of course in some years it can work great, there are always the success stories.

Good luck whatever you choose to do, ranching can be very rewarding and it sounds like you already have a great start.

 

[Angus 62]

I suggest sitting in the sale barn sometime and keeping track of the ACTUAL dollar differences in various weights of calves and what the added pounds work out to by the pound. I've watched a lot of calves where the ACTUAL value of bigger calves only amounted to 50-60 cents a pound on hundreds of added pounds of calf. Then apply that to feed, iron, calving sheds etc.

 

[3words]

If feed was cheap I could almost see the logic of calving in Jan if you had the facilities and the energy to put every cow through the barn. Hell, start in Dec or Nov even they would be even bigger. :roll: But to feed a lactating cow enough to keep herself warm, nurse her calf and be ready to cycle in time with $200 and up hay in my mind is crazy if you don't mind me saying so. But hey whatever works for you.

I filled my hay yard with 1300 pound alfalfa brome bales and they cost me $30 a bale and i had to haul them home,and the farthest field away was 5 miles.So i'm going to be able to winter my cows pretty cheap again this winter.

 

[3words]

I suggest sitting in the sale barn sometime and keeping track of the ACTUAL dollar differences in various weights of calves and what the added pounds work out to by the pound. I've watched a lot of calves where the ACTUAL value of bigger calves only amounted to 50-60 cents a pound on hundreds of added pounds of calf. Then apply that to feed, iron, calving sheds etc.

Quality sells,garbage doesn't!! Try comparing the same calf quality.

 

[3words]

AngusCowboy- sounds like a plan. Not much you can do in Feb. and March so why not calve. When you sell those steers the 1st of Jan for $1300.00 you can smile all the way to the bank.

I think when Big Swede sells his in January for $1150 with $200 less cost in them I'll probably see the brightness of his grin from here. :wink: :lol:

How do you figure $200 less cost in them?That would be equivelant to 6 extra round hay bales and a straw bale i would have to feed every cow just because she has a callf on her.He might be $100 a winter cheaper,and i would even highly doubt that.I was expanding and using the banks money during the bse years,so i know how to keep a fairly sharp pencil.

 

[Big Swede]

3words, I'm happy for you that you have cheap hay in your area. It costs 5 times more here the last two years. Try to pencil that out. If I were you I would buy several years supply at that price. Sounds like you've got it figured out, don't change a thing. Like I said earlier, if feed is cheap I see the logic.

 

[Big Swede]

Angus62 I agree with you totally, good post. I used to sell big calves and now I sell light green calves, supply and demand works every time. Cattle buyers will give surprisingly close to the same amount of dollars for very different sized calves. Lots of options with lighter calves.

 

[gcreekrch]

AngusCowboy- sounds like a plan. Not much you can do in Feb. and March so why not calve. When you sell those steers the 1st of Jan for $1300.00 you can smile all the way to the bank.

I think when Big Swede sells his in January for $1150 with $200 less cost in them I'll probably see the brightness of his grin from here. :wink: :lol:

How do you figure $200 less cost in them?That would be equivelant to 6 extra round hay bales and a straw bale i would have to feed every cow just because she has a callf on her.He might be $100 a winter cheaper,and i would even highly doubt that.I was expanding and using the banks money during the bse years,so i know how to keep a fairly sharp pencil.

3words, don't be so darn defensive. If you are happy with your plan and it's working for you that is all that counts.

I would hazard to guess that most later calving folks do have smaller framed cattle as that is also part of the equation. This alone would cut feed costs. Add in the fact that a lactating cow, if fed properly, will need 20% more feed post calving. Now add in cost of extra bedding, labour, and normally a higher death loss.
In this area, our feed is not nearly as strong as most others and on average costs 3x + what you are quoting. We calved in February for a time, then early March and due date for the last 6 years has been April 10. We have only sacrificed 30 lbs calf weight in the fall as the early calves seemed to only grow hair until June. 2 of us feed and calve out 450+ females per year, if we were calving this herd in Feb. still we would have to hire help. Last year we branded 4 less calves than cows wintered. In 2009 we sold as yearlings in May a 102% calf crop.

We did have a major turnover in our cow herd for the first couple of years as a lot of our cows had become accustommed to "help" when they calved. The last 2 years, other than tagging and banding, (which I still do by choice at birth) we have had to intervene with less than 10% of calvings. In my opinion, that is still too many.

It works for us just as it works for many others. If I could keep the predators from helping us we would be calving later yet on grass but that isn't going to happen soon. In the end, it isn't how heavy the calves are at weaning, it is how many dollars each cow leaves in your pocket each year.
We all do what works best for our own operation.

 

[leanin' H]

It's now official! Winter in all it's glory has started, now that the arguement as when is the best calving season has begun! Happens like clockwork every year bout' now. :wink:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

I wintered my calves at a feedlot for a few years. My calves would go in a pen behind the barn and be fed to gain a pound and a quarter to a pound and a half.
Another fellow brought in about the same number of calves but they were bigger exotic cross bred calves and he wanted them fed on the cement next to the Harvestore. His cost per pound of gain was less then mine but his total feed cost was higher. The calves usually went out about the same time. His to Swift Current and sold as feeders headed right to the feedlot and my calves went to Assiniboia and sold as grassers. The feedlot operator was always amazed that the calves netted very close to the same dollars and he knew how much the winter had cost each of us.

 

[3words]

I think when Big Swede sells his in January for $1150 with $200 less cost in them I'll probably see the brightness of his grin from here. :wink: :lol:

How do you figure $200 less cost in them?That would be equivelant to 6 extra round hay bales and a straw bale i would have to feed every cow just because she has a callf on her.He might be $100 a winter cheaper,and i would even highly doubt that.I was expanding and using the banks money during the bse years,so i know how to keep a fairly sharp pencil.

3words, don't be so darn defensive. If you are happy with your plan and it's working for you that is all that counts.

I would hazard to guess that most later calving folks do have smaller framed cattle as that is also part of the equation. This alone would cut feed costs. Add in the fact that a lactating cow, if fed properly, will need 20% more feed post calving. Now add in cost of extra bedding, labour, and normally a higher death loss.
In this area, our feed is not nearly as strong as most others and on average costs 3x + what you are quoting. We calved in February for a time, then early March and due date for the last 6 years has been April 10. We have only sacrificed 30 lbs calf weight in the fall as the early calves seemed to only grow hair until June. 2 of us feed and calve out 450+ females per year, if we were calving this herd in Feb. still we would have to hire help. Last year we branded 4 less calves than cows wintered. In 2009 we sold as yearlings in May a 102% calf crop.

We did have a major turnover in our cow herd for the first couple of years as a lot of our cows had become accustommed to "help" when they calved. The last 2 years, other than tagging and banding, (which I still do by choice at birth) we have had to intervene with less than 10% of calvings. In my opinion, that is still too many.

It works for us just as it works for many others. If I could keep the predators from helping us we would be calving later yet on grass but that isn't going to happen soon. In the end, it isn't how heavy the calves are at weaning, it is how many dollars each cow leaves in your pocket each year.
We all do what works best for our own operation.

I'm sorry if i sound defensive gcreekrch,i don't mean to.I guess i should learn how to type better,then just what comes to my mind right away,again i'm sorry!!

 

[3words]

If feed was cheap I could almost see the logic of calving in Jan if you had the facilities and the energy to put every cow through the barn. Hell, start in Dec or Nov even they would be even bigger. :roll: But to feed a lactating cow enough to keep herself warm, nurse her calf and be ready to cycle in time with $200 and up hay in my mind is crazy if you don't mind me saying so. But hey whatever works for you.

Big Swede,yes i agree with you that calving in the spring would be a lot less work,and i could have basically the winter off except for feeding cows.That would be way to much idle time on my hands,and i already have wasted 20 years of my life looking at the world from the inside of a bottle.So i had a choice to make keep drinking or work,so now i'm a workaholic.Which isn't so bad,because there are no hangovers.

 

[gcreekrch]

I'm sorry if i sound defensive gcreekrch,i don't mean to.I guess i should learn how to type better,then just what comes to my mind right away,again i'm sorry!!

No need for apology neighbor, I'm guilty of the same habit.