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How much calving ease, if you please

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Big Swede

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Here's a topic for discussion. How much calving ease do you like for your first calf heifers. Would you just as soon not touch a single one, unless backwards of course, and give up a little performance in the end at weaning or do you not mind helping a few, let's say 20% or less if you can get an extra few pounds at weaning.

I'm not suggesting hard pulls or God forbid C-sections, just a little extra power that you might have to help some.

I fit in that first category, the less human interference the better.
 
I think you can have your cake and eat it too by using short gestation length bulls. I use them on both heifers and part of my cows and haven't had to give up any performance. It's neat to see a mature cow squirt out a 70-80 pound calf in March, and have it wean 650+ pounds in early October. These calves do start coming way ahead of their due dates, and so you better be prepared to start calving early.

The first year I used them, I knew for sure that each cow had another twin in her after seeing a small calf pop out... Nope, just a nice, lively little calf that got up and nursed. I've kept some of these heifer calves out of these bulls, and they are structurally large enough to avoid calving complications, unlike some of the problems you may get into by selecting calving ease based off of structure.

I've used short gestation length bulls on my 04 and 05 heifers (didn't keep any 06s), and pulled 1/34 in 2006, and 2/28 in 2007.

Maybe I've just lucked out? :? The problem now is that my bull breeder quit raising bulls, and so I'm searching to find comparable genetics... I've been VERY spoiled :D . My gosh I wrote a lot :oops:
 
Big Swede said:
Does that mean you don't have to help anything?
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Ever? No I wouldn't say that. I don't have much more problem with heifers than cows. I get an occasional big one but I use some fairly big genetics. I used to calve the heifers separate so I watched them closer, fed them better and had more trouble. I would have to guess at how many heifers calves I pull but I'd say roughly 1 in 25 maybe? Maybe not that many.
 
>>I'd rather not touch anything. The less human intervention the better.<<

Well said. I personally use a lot of what I call "Lasiter" methods. If a cow/heifer dies calving that is just less of her genes in the genepool. To many people have made ranching too labor intensive. Get your cows to work for you. Stop making excuses for them and let nature cull the rejects.
 
nortexsook said:
>>I'd rather not touch anything. The less human intervention the better.<<

Well said. I personally use a lot of what I call "Lasiter" methods. If a cow/heifer dies calving that is just less of her genes in the genepool. To many people have made ranching too labor intensive. Get your cows to work for you. Stop making excuses for them and let nature cull the rejects.
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I wouldn't quite go that far. If they need some help they get it. I'd rather have a live cull to sell than bear bait.
I do think that you need to provide the right nutrition, genetics, and vaccination program to acchieve a more or less hands off operation
 
Well we don't have bears around hear, and like Clint Eastwood once said, "Worms gotta eat too!".


If I was around and saw one that needed help, I'd help, but I don't make a habit of midnight runs to the calving pastures to check on cows/heifers all night.
 
We are just getting started on our own cows now, weather depending, we do a last check at 11:00pm and a first at 5:00 am. That way we both get at least a few hours sleep.
Because of distance to the vet I learned to do any OB work including the odd C-section years ago. In the event of a small cow/large calf I can have one out the side in about an hour. Better than the alternative.
 
I think you can have your cake and eat it too by using short gestation length bulls.
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How much shorter gestation do you want?
I had two Bando 111 daughters calve last week, one at 270 days, and the other at 269 days!! Not as much vigor that I like to see in either calf, fact is one died just yesterday, don't know, he was up and sucking good for 4-5 days, might not have been fully developed inside.
I'd rather pull a vigorous, 275-283 gestation length, 90 lb calf out of a heifer than have a little 70 lb calf at 270 days gestation. Ten years ago I used a very good bull that did just that, Ideal 5201, not too short of gestation with 80-100 calves, and his daughters are pretty darn nice.
I would like to find a calving ease sire without the shorter gestation, but nodda gonna happen!
 
My cousins own Ideal 5201. I used him also. He was okay on heifers up until their due date and then you could get some big ones if they went over. If I ever used him again, I would induce labor on their due date.

I'd rather not have to live with my heifers so I'll take short gestation every time.
 
Frank in West Dakota said:
I think you can have your cake and eat it too by using short gestation length bulls.
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How much shorter gestation do you want?
I had two Bando 111 daughters calve last week, one at 270 days, and the other at 269 days!! Not as much vigor that I like to see in either calf, fact is one died just yesterday, don't know, he was up and sucking good for 4-5 days, might not have been fully developed inside.
I'd rather pull a vigorous, 275-283 gestation length, 90 lb calf out of a heifer than have a little 70 lb calf at 270 days gestation. Ten years ago I used a very good bull that did just that, Ideal 5201, not too short of gestation with 80-100 calves, and his daughters are pretty darn nice.
I would like to find a calving ease sire without the shorter gestation, but nodda gonna happen!
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I'm sorry to hear you lost one. I haven't had trouble with premature deliveries using short gestation bulls, they've been coming full term and vigorous. I noticed you're from western SD, Black Hills country? Do your cows have access to pine needles? That can cause premature calves... I know this very well unfortunately :(.
 
I'd rather give up maybe some weight in the fall rather then have a terrible time calving heifers. This year the ranch bought some heifers from a very reputable operation and boy did they ever miss on the bull they used. It was to the point almost a nightmare. See one calving and know that it would end up having to be pulled out. That made for some long nights and short temperments. Close to 85% pulled.......ewww learned a valuable lesson and after talking to others who bought there they have too.

Was nice to start calving the heifers that we AIed. They just calved and out went the checking them every two hours.
 
I would rather assist the odd heifer, than sacrafice much performance. I find that even with the larger calves, the heifers still generally give up over 25 lbs to the cows. Now, I am not talking HUGE BWs, but I like them to calve in the 75 lb to 90 lb range. We don't have many problems with those BWs. I really don't care for calves that are under 70 lbs on the heifers. I figure if she can't have a 80 - 85 lb calf on her own, we don't really need her around.

We had 3 of our own heifers this year, BWs were 86, 87 and 68. The bigger ones were bulls and the smaller a heifer. No problems with any of them, and the steers are looking really good. The heifer has a bit to go yet...... We bought 7 shorthorn x heifers that had avg BWs of 77 lbs. The biggest was 83 and the smallest 66. Helped one of them, the rest had them by themselves. Nice enough calves, but I think our own heifers will have better calves come fall.
 
Put me in the group that prefers ease, simplicity, and are just getting lazier as I get older...
I don't even mind giving up a few pounds in the fall to get the lower birthweights- because I actually think you make up for it in more live calves... Rather have a live 70lb calf than a dead 90-100 lber anyday....And I don't know how many times I've seen a dummy 90-100lb calf lay there on a nasty day and just die- where in the same situation a little 70lb angus is up and trying to get his belly full of warm milk in 5 minutes...

I run low BW- calving ease bulls on both cows and heifers-keeps it simpler and means they can be ran together- and I've seen more than once where a low BW easy calving bull has kept me from pulling or c-secting a breech or odd presentation calf....Couple of times- where I've seen hind feet or tail- and by the time I get my stuff together the calf is on the ground or coming on its own--Makes me wonder how many more just come without you knowing they were a problem calf..
 
I be willing to bet that the dumb calves are alot bigger than 90 lbs, From what I have seen and weighed, they are ussually 110 lbs or bigger.
 
I'm not much fun to be around if we have to help any heifers. as for checking at night-only whores and thieves work in the dark.
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Thieves around here work in broad daylight, and most people don't even care that the thieves are stealing from their neighbor.
I don't like to work in the dark either, that's why I carry a flashlight when I go out at night. I like to "work" with the lights on! :p
 
I used to fall into that "rather help a few and have a bigger calf come fall" mentality. I think you can find calving ease genetics that still give you that bigger calf today. They may not be as cheap as some calving ease "cow fresheners", but there are bulls out there that can git-r-dun. As for checkin at night, if I save just one calf from smothering, freezing or whatever its worth it, besides, night checkin is my reason for stashing a bottle McGillicuddy's!!!
 

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