How to push back?

[Big Muddy rancher]

It seems by general consensus the the BLM has over reached on many issues in cattle country. Not being a US citizen and not familiar with how the issues of water rights, Grazing permits, Grazing fees and Historical use. State land vs federal land? I don't want to"lip off" Like somebody mentioned before. But as a rancher that sees these issues hurting ALL ranchers I would like to know HOW we push back?

Personally I'm not in favor of armed conflict as I'm sure innocent people will be hurt.
Rural people don't generally have the votes that urban people have and law suits are expensive.

Any ideas?

What are the cattle associations doing?

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Anybody know why the Wayne Hage case is not used as precedent in court regarding Bundy ranch?

 

[hypocritexposer]

Anybody know why the Wayne Hage case is not used as precedent in court regarding Bundy ranch?

the Bundy case was decided before Hage won his, which was after he was dead.

Bundy would need another day in court, for the Hage case to be used as precedent

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Anybody know why the Wayne Hage case is not used as precedent in court regarding Bundy ranch?

the Bundy case was decided before Hage won his, which was after he was dead.

Bundy would need another day in court, for the Hage case to be used as precedent

weren't the Bundys back in court in 2012?

 

[hypocritexposer]

Anybody know why the Wayne Hage case is not used as precedent in court regarding Bundy ranch?

the Bundy case was decided before Hage won his, which was after he was dead.

Bundy would need another day in court, for the Hage case to be used as precedent

weren't the Bundys back in court in 2012?

yep, and the judge refused to hear any argunents...and Hage was back in court, in 2013

Sunday, June 02, 2013
Judge sides with ranch family (Hage) - Court shocked by actions of Forest Service, BLM agents

http://thewesterner.blogspot.ca/2013/06/judge-sides-with-ranch-family-hage.html

 

[hypocritexposer]

In Jones' 104-page decision issued Friday, he noted that none of the witnesses testified to seeing cows eating grass on federal land, but he also said it was an "unavoidable inference that the cattle grazed in the area where they were observed." However, unless the cattle wandered more than half a mile from a water source in which the defendant had a water right, it didn't constitute trespassing.

Only two of the many claims met that criteria. Jones granted damages for trespassing on Jan. 5, 2004, for $40.04 and Jan. 13, 2004, for $125.84.
"Basically, the judge said, 'Yes, there was some trespass. It was a small amount. Here's your money, government,'" said Mark Pollot, attorney for the Hage estate.

 

[DejaVu]

BMR: Last week, I sent an email to Kansas Livestock Association's president, Dee Likes, asking what the association would do if a member were in Bundy's position. So far, I have received no answer. Maybe, that is the answer..nothing.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

BMR: Last week, I sent an email to Kansas Livestock Association's president, Dee Likes, asking what the association would do if a member were in Bundy's position. So far, I have received no answer. Maybe, that is the answer..nothing.

I can understand states that have no or very little BLM land not understanding the issue but it seems strange that not much has been heard from any State of national organizations.
I did post a clip from Rcalf and they supported Bundy and thought Sheriff Mack was a hero for his stand.

Do the livestock organizations need to pressure their states to reclaim grazing lands from the Feds?

 

[DejaVu]

Going back and re-reading your post about the lesser prairie chicken and Finney County Ks, the commissioners are dealing with BLM in that situation. Finney County would be all privately owned land but it appears if a species can be labeled threatened or endangered, it opens the door for the BLM to take control. I believe the "threatened or endangered species designation" is a front for something much more insidious.

 

[W.T]

Going back and re-reading your post about the lesser prairie chicken and Finney County Ks, the commissioners are dealing with BLM in that situation. Finney County would be all privately owned land but it appears if a species can be labeled threatened or endangered, it opens the door for the BLM to take control. I believe the "threatened or endangered species designation" is a front for something much more insidious.

Brilliant: The Endangered species act is the excuse they need to start the endless litigation that is required to financially destroy you until they can steal your Property. Regardless of your geographic location it is all about your water rights and that is your property. IMO Bundy watched Hage and learned that he could not afford the litigation that Hage could and made the only choice he had left and that was to ignore them.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Going back and re-reading your post about the lesser prairie chicken and Finney County Ks, the commissioners are dealing with BLM in that situation. Finney County would be all privately owned land but it appears if a species can be labeled threatened or endangered, it opens the door for the BLM to take control. I believe the "threatened or endangered species designation" is a front for something much more insidious.

Brilliant: The Endangered species act is the excuse they need to start the endless litigation that is required to financially destroy you until they can steal your Property. Regardless of your geographic location it is all about your water rights and that is your property. IMO Bundy watched Hage and learned that he could not afford the litigation that Hage could and made the only choice he had left and that was to ignore them.

But hasn't Wayne Hage done the hard work?

Bundy isn't honoring Hage's victory however bittersweet it was by associating with Sheriff Mack talking about putting the women in the front lines in case shooting broke out. :?

 

[W.T]

Going back and re-reading your post about the lesser prairie chicken and Finney County Ks, the commissioners are dealing with BLM in that situation. Finney County would be all privately owned land but it appears if a species can be labeled threatened or endangered, it opens the door for the BLM to take control. I believe the "threatened or endangered species designation" is a front for something much more insidious.

Brilliant: The Endangered species act is the excuse they need to start the endless litigation that is required to financially destroy you until they can steal your Property. Regardless of your geographic location it is all about your water rights and that is your property. IMO Bundy watched Hage and learned that he could not afford the litigation that Hage could and made the only choice he had left and that was to ignore them.

But hasn't Wayne Hage done the hard work?

Bundy isn't honoring Hage's victory however bittersweet it was by associating with Sheriff Mack talking about putting the women in the front lines in case shooting broke out. :?

No argument on the ethics involved, and not going to judge Bundy one way or the other. Wayne Hage was a very honorable man. Bundy did what he did because he was backed into a corner, And the BLM is flat out wrong. Here the BLM employees have been instructed not to communicate with farmers and ranchers in any way, some of these friendships go back 30 yrs. Today it is all business, And no consorting with the enemy.... The entire issue is our water and OUR is Meaning you and I.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Brilliant: The Endangered species act is the excuse they need to start the endless litigation that is required to financially destroy you until they can steal your Property. Regardless of your geographic location it is all about your water rights and that is your property. IMO Bundy watched Hage and learned that he could not afford the litigation that Hage could and made the only choice he had left and that was to ignore them.

But hasn't Wayne Hage done the hard work?

Bundy isn't honoring Hage's victory however bittersweet it was by associating with Sheriff Mack talking about putting the women in the front lines in case shooting broke out. :?

No argument on the ethics involved, and not going to judge Bundy one way or the other. Wayne Hage was a very honorable man. Bundy did what he did because he was backed into a corner, And the BLM is flat out wrong. Here the BLM employees have been instructed not to communicate with farmers and ranchers in any way, some of these friendships go back 30 yrs. Today it is all business, And no consorting with the enemy.... The entire issue is our water and OUR is Meaning you and I.

Tough on small town/communities when friends can't be friends. :?

I think we are pretty much on the same page.

 

[Ho55]

W.T I hope one day to shake your hand in person. You know what's going on. And I tip my hat to you.

 

[W.T]

One day we will, Or maybe we already Have?????? And I as well! Ho55
Today I talked with farmer's and ranchers and few can seem to grasp the gravity of what is going on. My own family has been drawn to the left middle and right. I ask how can they be so confused??? But the answer is clear to those that can truly see. It is not about green energy or endangered species, or land grabs. it is all about who owns the Western Water! The politicians today get elected not on merit or honor. But they simply Buy the votes, it is easy to like a smooth talker or a handsome face, but A hand out is irresistible to the ones with a vote to sale. They target the poor who truly need, They target the unwilling who have no direction and they target the immoral that have only greed.
And as I listened to the farmer he could see only his water rights and looked me in the eye and said I own my water rights and I called the state water commission and they guaranteed me that no one would steal them. As he walked away it made me think about, Wayne Hage and how we all should read his story again and again. It also made me look at Cliven Bundy and realize that he took a tremendous amount of criticism, for making a stand regardless of him being right or wrong, and that took a courage that few will ever have, he laid it all on the line for noble belief of right and wrong. And with his demise some of us now see the corruption for what it truly is. And now we need to realize we as farmer's and ranchers have no value as people to the political powers. Our rights are little more than a nuisance, And our votes are not for sale. And I wake in the morning and like who I see. W.T signing off before I say what I really want to say

 

[mrj]

Re. the comment about "putting the women in the front"....are we forgetting that people in stressful situations often do make stupid statements....and that the media folks will 'run' with the stupidest they hear? Then the folks who want to demonize the ranchers will repeat endlessly the comment and use it to typecast the folks who are in desperate straits due to government overreach.

No matter the history of Bundy, this IS about government attempts to manipulate, control, and even eliminate land ownership by ordinary people, or maybe in this case, land use.

While we all have been busy tending to our farms and ranches, quite a number of people and groups have been busier working up schemes to achieve their goals of little or no private ownership of land, as in the 'Buffalo Commons' and the various other 'land grab' schemes mentioned in several posts recently. While we may not be hearing much about some of them, especially the Buffalo Commons deal, they are still being promoted.

Buffalo Commons may have experienced a small setback lately when many of the Indians affected by plans to put more buffalo on a portion of the Badlands Park, on the Pine Ridge Reservation decided to protest the taking of land they have lived on for generations. Not sure where they stand today, but doubt they are going to give up their homesteads for that scheme. Some of them have excellent ranches, as the SD Badlands is some of the very best place to raise cattle ion excellent native grass prairies.

If we don't educate ourselves and our younger generations about all these attempts to take away our land, it will happen, sooner, or later.

mrj

 

[DejaVu]

From Ben Franklin:

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters

This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins

Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature

 

[Ho55]

"When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty."


― Thomas Jefferson

 

[Mike]

"When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty."


― Thomas Jefferson

Yup. When you shut down all the cell phone towers, make a "No-Fly" Zone out of the area, build bunkers, send in hundreds of militarily dressed and armed soldiers, appoint an area to be the "Free Speech" zone over a few cattle by a man that only owes $31,000.00 in questionable fees to the Feds, something has definitely gone wrong in the Gov't.

 

[W.T]

Well today I woke up for the first time as a Domestic Terrorist. It appears that Mr. Harry Reid has proclaimed that free speech and the right to assemble are acts of terrorism.. I first laughed at his comments. Then I realized he was very serious . We have a Senator that has lost his grip on reality, his greed and self proclamation of importance, have far exceeded the bounds of any elected official's duties. His comments should not be considered as a responsible act of a US Senator. Every one should write there elected officials and protest this mans actions. It is quite apparent with his ongoing statement's that he is in absolute control of the BLM.
Any response you are willing to make is very important to all Americans, as Mr. Reid is attempting to steal America from us.