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Anonymous

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Leo McDonnell: "If anything, increased demand (for beef) is going to encourage more product to come in and encourage more unfair trade practices."

Now if that doesn't define the "every cloud is a potential thunderstorm" mentality of R-CULT, I don't know what does.

What a defeatest attitude!


Question for you Canadians, does Canada slaughter downer cows?

Leo McDonnell: "Canada is still processing downer animals"



~SH~
 

rancher

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As MRJ says we need the rest of the story to go with your cut and paste.
 

Tam

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Well I did a google search and this is what I found this

OTTAWA—Canada and the United States are bringing in tougher controls on the supply of beef in the wake of the latest mad cow scare.
The U.S. moved yesterday to match tighter Canadian controls on suspect cattle, including forbidding so-called "downer" cattle (those too sick to stand) from entering the food chain.-------
Yesterday, the United States announced sweeping new measures similar to rules already in place in Canada.
They include banning "downer animals" from the food chain, banning the more "risky" animal tissues from older cattle like brains, spinal cord and column, and small intestine from meat products, and banning air-injection stun guns in the slaughterhouse that splatter brain material. Canada has banned those for several years.

I also asked a friend and he told me that slaughter plants will not accept them.
And truckers will not haul them as there is regulations forbidding the transportation of ill or injuried animals to any where other than a place to get veterinary help.

The CFIA has this statement on their web page. “Even if infected animals were to survive long enough to develop into full-blown BSE cases, most of these animals would not leave their farms as they would be dead, down or displaying neurological signs. If some animals displaying neurological signs were sent for slaughter, they would be screened out during pre-slaughter inspection”.
 

cowsense

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Tam's got her facts in order as usual. Too bad that lieing Leo has to resort to absolute fiction to try and maintain his flawed position statements!!!
 

frenchie

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SH=Leo McDonnell: "If anything, increased demand (for beef) is going to encourage more product to come in and encourage more unfair trade practices

This has to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen..even for a R-calfer.


SH can you post the entire article you got that from...
 

Kato

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Downers cannot even be hauled to the vet clinic. The vet must go to them if they can't walk on to a trailer. If it can't walk, it can't go.

The only exception to this rule would be an extremely young calf that you could pick up and carry. Even those must have an ID tag before you take them in.
 

Sandhusker

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Leo McDonnell: "If anything, increased demand (for beef) is going to encourage more product to come in and encourage more unfair trade practices."

You must be rally desperate to try to hang something on Leo if you are picking the fly specs out of the pepper with this statement. If you would think about this for 30 seconds you would realize this statement makes perfect sense.

I"ll break it out for you.......

Increased demand has a positive effect on prices........higher prices mean more money floating around.......more money means more people trying to get a piece of the action....more people means more product and also opens the door for more "less than honest" folks.
 

Big Muddy rancher

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Sandhusker"Increased demand has a positive effect on prices........higher prices mean more money floating around.......more money means more people trying to get a piece of the action....more people means more product and also opens the door for more "less than honest" folks."




Less than honest folks" do you mean like people that say what ever it take to get their miguided message across. Like maybe R-CALF telling half truths that have been proven wrong time and again right here on this board.

i.e. Leo says Canada slaughters downers.
 

Sandhusker

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BMR, "Less than honest folks" do you mean like people that say what ever it take to get their miguided message across. Like maybe R-CALF telling half truths that have been proven wrong time and again right here on this board. i.e. Leo says Canada slaughters downers."

From what I can see, it looks like Leo is wrong. I'd like him to say where he got his information.

I've seen questionable comments from R-CALF, USDA, NCBA, AMI. It seems R-CALF's eyebrow-raisers get jumped on while the others are ignored.
 

mrj

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Tam, what is the date on that good story your Google search turned up? I'm trying to get a time line on the actions involved in this BSE mess, and dates are necessary to get accuracy.

Thanks for posting it, and thanks in advance if you have a date for it.

SH, same as the above on your informative post. Knowing you, I can trust your info, while some who don't, will be suspicious, and some who detest truth about R-CALF will have more fodder for their rumor mill without the details to give credibility.

MRJ
 

rancher

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while some who don't, will be suspicious, and some who detest truth about R-CALF will have more fodder for their rumor mill without the details to give credibility.

MRJ

Didn't sleep well last night MRJ. You are a little snippy this morning. :roll:
 

Tam

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MRJ said:
Tam, what is the date on that good story your Google search turned up? I'm trying to get a time line on the actions involved in this BSE mess, and dates are necessary to get accuracy.

Thanks for posting it, and thanks in advance if you have a date for it.

SH, same as the above on your informative post. Knowing you, I can trust your info, while some who don't, will be suspicious, and some who detest truth about R-CALF will have more fodder for their rumor mill without the details to give credibility.

MRJ

The quote was from a press release dated somewhere around the mid of Jan. 2004 because it was in responce to the FSIS announcement that they had filed the interim final ruleing with the Federal Register and that was done on Jan 12th.
What I found to be interesting and I can't find anything to defute it is that all the FSIS filed about downers is that the processing plant had to hold the carcass until a negative test result was recieved. If the test result was negative it was free to pass the meat into the system. So I I think Leo was wrong about the U.S. not processing downers. the words in FSIS 's announcement were

The four policies that Secretary Veneman announced on December 30, 2003 were made effective by FSIS on January 12, 2004. These included:
 Product Holding - FSIS inspectors no longer mark cattle tested for BSE as "inspected and passed" until confirmation is received by FSIS and the plant that the cattle have, in fact, tested negative for BSE.
 Specified Risk Material - FSIS declared that skull, brain, trigeminal ganglia, eyes, vertebral column, spinal cord and dorsal root ganglia of cattle 30 months of age or older and the small intestine of all cattle are specified risk materials that are prohibited in the human food supply. Tonsils from all cattle are also not allowed in the human food supply.
 Advanced Meat Recovery - FSIS expanded a prior prohibition on spinal cord from being allowed in product produced from a technology called advanced meat recovery (AMR). This new regulation prohibits dorsal root ganglia, clusters of nerve cells connected to the spinal cord along the vertebral column, in addition to spinal cord tissue from being in AMR product.
 Air-Injection Stunning - FSIS banned the practice of air-injection stunning to ensure that portions of the brain are not dislocated into the tissues of the carcass as a consequence of humanely stunning cattle during the slaughter process.

The USDA did ask for comments about banning downers altogether but that was in the same docket that they asked about chicken litter and nothing has been done about that as the Final rule hasn't been written and filed yet. I did read a few of the comments that opposed the out and out banning of downers.

Downers cannot even be hauled to the vet clinic. The vet must go to them if they can't walk on to a trailer. If it can't walk, it can't go.

Yes I agree Kato about downed cattle and the vet having to come and see them that is what the regulations say. if the animal can't walk it does nowhere. If a animal walks on a truck under it's own power then goes down the only place it can be hauled to is the closest vet for medical attention. This is why a trucker and rancher is going to be selective about what they put on. If they know a cow is ill and could go down why would they load her just so the trucker has to be delayed by a stop at the vet clinic. Time is money to truckers and I can't see to many wanting to waste a whole lot on a sick animal that is worthless when it gets to the plant as it will be condenmed. It would be worth more to the rancher right at home Smart move on the ranchers part pay the trucker to haul it to town just to have it comdemned and then have to pay money out of pocket to have it properly disposed of. When he could get $75 dollars if he had called the CFIA vet to come take a sample and dispose of the animal himself.
 

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by Bill Tomson Today 3/1/2005 5:10:00 PM


USDA Secretary: Some Banned 'Downer' Cattle Weren't BSE Threat


WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--The U.S. Department of Agriculture banned meat from the human food supply from cattle too sick or injured to walk following the discovery of mad-cow disease in just such an animal over a year ago, but some of those banned cattle carried "no threat" of the disease, the department's secretary said Tuesday.



"Let's say in the transport of an animal, the animal breaks its leg," USDA Secretary Mike Johanns said in an interview with Dow Jones Newswires. "Everybody agrees that there is no (mad-cow disease) risk whatsoever. You have an animal with a broken leg."



The ban on all cattle too sick or injured to walk - called "downers" - together with an expansion of the types of bovine tissue considered at risk for carrying mad-cow disease and restrictions on advanced meat recovery technology to scrape meat from carcass bones were all implemented as "interim" rules in January 2004.



The interim mad-cow, or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, safety rules are costly to U.S. producers and processors that once profited from products now banned from the human food supply. The interim rules are subject to change, but the industry will remain in the dark on what those changes will be until the USDA creates a final set of rules.



And USDA won't consider amending those rules, including the prohibition on meat from "downers" until it has completed the 12- to 18-month nationwide BSE testing program it began in June 2004, according to the secretary and other department officials.



It won't be until after all of the results are in from the testing program that USDA will consider the "downer" prohibition "and make some judgment as to whether we want to continue with that approach," Johanns said.








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Tam

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Hat said:
Sandhusker said:
BMR,
I've seen questionable comments from R-CALF, USDA, NCBA, AMI. It seems R-CALF's eyebrow-raisers get jumped on while the others are ignored.

It's called power and respect. Many people on here loathe R-Calf but at the same time they have to marvel in the fact that they have single handedly kept the border closed and brought the USDA to their knees to enforce their own rules. They have also made the NCBA twist and turn so many times it's members don't know if they are coming or going.

"It's called power and respect" what a laugh R-CALF has nobodies respect. R-CALF use the power of the anti beef groups to get media attention so they could lie to more consumers and producers in hope that a few more will throw money their way to keep of their protectionist fight going. With the money they bought themself a lawyer and maybe even a judge to use the power of the U.S. judisical system to stop the USDA. The only thing I marvel at is to what lengths R-CALF will go to destroy consumer confidence in Canadian beef without seeing the damage their are doing to the consumer confidence worldwide. the NCBA better save their strength as they will need if when BSE is found in the US and they have to clean up the mess that R-CALF and the rest of the anti beef groups are making. There won't be enough money in the Beef checkoff fund to buy the US beef industry out of this bad press.
 

Tam

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The ban on all cattle too sick or injured to walk - called "downers" - together with an expansion of the types of bovine tissue considered at risk for carrying mad-cow disease and restrictions on advanced meat recovery technology to scrape meat from carcass bones were all implemented as "interim" rules in January 2004.



The four policies that Secretary Veneman announced on December 30, 2003 were made effective by FSIS on January 12, 2004. These included:
 Product Holding - FSIS inspectors no longer mark cattle tested for BSE as "inspected and passed" until confirmation is received by FSIS and the plant that the cattle have, in fact, tested negative for BSE.
 Specified Risk Material - FSIS declared that skull, brain, trigeminal ganglia, eyes, vertebral column, spinal cord and dorsal root ganglia of cattle 30 months of age or older and the small intestine of all cattle are specified risk materials that are prohibited in the human food supply. Tonsils from all cattle are also not allowed in the human food supply.
 Advanced Meat Recovery - FSIS expanded a prior prohibition on spinal cord from being allowed in product produced from a technology called advanced meat recovery (AMR). This new regulation prohibits dorsal root ganglia, clusters of nerve cells connected to the spinal cord along the vertebral column, in addition to spinal cord tissue from being in AMR product.
 Air-Injection Stunning - FSIS banned the practice of air-injection stunning to ensure that portions of the brain are not dislocated into the tissues of the carcass as a consequence of humanely stunning cattle during the slaughter process.

This is what the FSIS filed on Jan 12. 2004 where does it say the downers animals to sick or injuried to walk are banned. all it says is the the meat has to be held unti, the test results come back negative. Can you find me another interim ruling that states downers are banned, I couldn't . So by this rule processers are only obligated to hold the product until a negative test result is recieved. And this is backed up by the answer that the US gave Japan when they asked

Q1. Are all cattle inspected prior to slaughter?
A1. All cattle slaughtered in federally inspected establishments in the United States are subject to inspection by USDA's Food Safety Inspection Service (FSIS) inspectors. Cattle are carefully examined to identify any symptoms of disease, including signs of central nervous system impairment. Cattle that are suspect for any reason are then re-examined by an FSIS veterinarian to determine whether the animal is eligible for slaughter. No animal that shows signs of systemic illness and disease is allowed into the human food supply.
All cattle slaughtered in federally inspected establishments in the United States are subject to inspection. FSIS inspectors examine cattle to identify any symptoms of disease, including signs of central nervous system impairment.
Cattle that are suspect for any reason are examined by an FSIS veterinarian to determine whether the animal is eligible for slaughter. Cattle that show signs of systemic illness and disease are condemned and not allowed into the human food supply. The brains from animals that exhibit signs of neurological impairment during inspection are submitted for testing and analysis by the USDA's National Veterinary Services Laboratories. The mark of inspection will not be applied to carcasses and parts of cattle selected for BSE testing until the sample is determined to be negative. Only if tests results are negative will the carcass and parts of cattle pass, receive the mark of inspection, and be released into the system.
[/quote]
 

Tam

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That's your emotion based opinion, the same one you have EVERY SINGLE DAY. You are the only person in the World who puts so much stock into what the anti-beef groups say, it's people like you that keep them going. I've told you this all before but instead of listening you spew off your same ole BS rhetoric. GOOD LUCK TAM, HAVE A BEER.

Don't you even listen to Leo McDonnell anymore Hat he said that is why R-CALF was aligning themselves with these groups as they got more MEDIA ATTENTION and that is what R-CALF wanted was media attention. I don't drink Beer so why don't you go have a beer and listen to the radio broadcast that Soapweed posted you will hear Leo say why they used the consumer groups. Leo must think that more than I take stock in what these groups say.
 
A

Anonymous

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Leo McDonnell: "If anything, increased demand (for beef) is going to encourage more product to come in and encourage more unfair trade practices."

Sandblaster translation: "Increased demand has a positive effect on prices........higher prices mean more money floating around.......more money means more people trying to get a piece of the action....more people means more product and also opens the door for more "less than honest" folks."


HAHAHA! You truly are the "MASTER OF ILLUSION".

Nowhere did Leo say anything positive about "increased demand".

R-CULT's focus is negative (increased supplies) not positive (increased consumer demand).


JUST LIKE THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS THEY "UNOFFICIALLY" SUPPORT!

"punish achievement, regulate prosperity, more government intervention"



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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~SH~ said:
Leo McDonnell: "If anything, increased demand (for beef) is going to encourage more product to come in and encourage more unfair trade practices."

Sandblaster translation: "Increased demand has a positive effect on prices........higher prices mean more money floating around.......more money means more people trying to get a piece of the action....more people means more product and also opens the door for more "less than honest" folks."


HAHAHA! You truly are the "MASTER OF ILLUSION".

Nowhere did Leo say anything positive about "increased demand".

R-CULT's focus is negative (increased supplies) not positive (increased consumer demand).


JUST LIKE THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS THEY "UNOFFICIALLY" SUPPORT!

"punish achievement, regulate prosperity, more government intervention"



~SH~

SH, "JUST LIKE THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS THEY "UNOFFICIALLY" SUPPORT! "

You want to bring some facts to the table and back that statement?
 
A

Anonymous

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Herman Shumacher outwardly supported Tom Daschle.

Herman is an R-CULT director.

Kathleen Kelley, another R-CULT director, is an "anti corporate" democrat through and through.

Johnny Smith, one of R-CULT's most outspoken advocates from SD was outwardly supporting Tom Daschle.

Mike Callicrate, another outspoken R-CULT advocate, is a democrat.

Their issues all favor more government intervention and they have the typical left wing anti corporate view points regarding successful corporations.


Conservative Republicans - NCBA - Farm Bureau

Liberal Democrats - R-CULT - Farmer's Union.


R-CULT is the equivalent of the democratic party of the beef industry which is substantiated by their love of government mandates.


~SH~
 

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