Inside R-Calf

[Tam]

Since we aren't going to get any answers from Sandhusker with his fingers in his ears :lol: :lol:
I'd like to see if ocm can answer this question

What USDA's Big huge mistake did Bullard tell the R-CALF board of Directors about dealing with Rule Two ?

Could it be that it didn't include OTM beef and Beef products. :wink:

What ever it was it was not accurate due to Bullards lack of knowledge of the law, that according to some consulting R-CALF lawyers anyway.

Can you clarify what it was ocm? :?

 

[Tam]

There is another odd rumour going around about R-calf. Maybe some of the members on here can clarify it.
I heard ,from some Doctor friends I was having supper with, that R-calf had some T-shirts made for the office staff and others. They had "TEAM BULL" or "TEAM BALL" or something like that written on them, doesn't matter. The rumour is that these T-shirts were imported from China or Taiwan or somewhere and printed in Canada.
Is that true??? :???: :?

Close but no cigar Tim I read it was TEAM BILL and Administrative Assistant Candace Bullard,ran down to Wally World and had them printed up. Bill spared no expense to buy office uniforms. :wink:

 

[ocm]

There is another odd rumour going around about R-calf. Maybe some of the members on here can clarify it.
I heard ,from some Doctor friends I was having supper with, that R-calf had some T-shirts made for the office staff and others. They had "TEAM BULL" or "TEAM BALL" or something like that written on them, doesn't matter. The rumour is that these T-shirts were imported from China or Taiwan or somewhere and printed in Canada.
Is that true??? :???: :?

Close but no cigar Tim I read it was TEAM BILL and Administrative Assistant Candace Bullard,ran down to Wally World and had them printed up. Bill spared no expense to buy office uniforms. :wink:

It is totally amazing to me how many bits of truth some people have but mixed with outrageous falsehoods and with vital information missing they come to some very wrong conclusions. Non-members can play Diogenes all they want. I have no interest in helping them to the truth (what small bits of it I have). As for members, they will get the whole picture soon enough I would think.

This thread reminds me of the one time years ago when I was interviewed for a newspaper story. The story ended up bearing no resemblance to what I had told them in the interview. I wondered if I was even reading about myself. The little flashes of truth here taken grossly out of context and omitting other things are resulting in a much distorted picture, starting with Dittmer's article and getting even worse. In other circumstances it would even be humorous.

 

[Bill]

There is another odd rumour going around about R-calf. Maybe some of the members on here can clarify it.
I heard ,from some Doctor friends I was having supper with, that R-calf had some T-shirts made for the office staff and others. They had "TEAM BULL" or "TEAM BALL" or something like that written on them, doesn't matter. The rumour is that these T-shirts were imported from China or Taiwan or somewhere and printed in Canada.
Is that true??? :???: :?

Close but no cigar Tim I read it was TEAM BILL and Administrative Assistant Candace Bullard,ran down to Wally World and had them printed up. Bill spared no expense to buy office uniforms. :wink:

It is totally amazing to me how many bits of truth some people have but mixed with outrageous falsehoods and with vital information missing they come to some very wrong conclusions. Non-members can play Diogenes all they want. I have no interest in helping them to the truth (what small bits of it I have). As for members, they will get the whole picture soon enough I would think.

This thread reminds me of the one time years ago when I was interviewed for a newspaper story. The story ended up bearing no resemblance to what I had told them in the interview. I wondered if I was even reading about myself. The little flashes of truth here taken grossly out of context and omitting other things are resulting in a much distorted picture, starting with Dittmer's article and getting even worse. In other circumstances it would even be humorous.

Quite a few of us think it is hilarious just the way it is!

 

[Bill]

Sandhusker, when you say to Tam "your emails have it wrong from the start", are you saying Jon Wooster and the rest who have resigned are lying?

It's mildly interesting, even a bit ironic that the champions of "member control" for producer organizations apparently have given control of R-CALF to staffer Bullard.

MRJ

Now if that was Dittmer, Sadhusker would be babbling about a one man foundation. isn't that how it goes Sadhusker?

 

[ocm]

Sandhusker, when you say to Tam "your emails have it wrong from the start", are you saying Jon Wooster and the rest who have resigned are lying?

It's mildly interesting, even a bit ironic that the champions of "member control" for producer organizations apparently have given control of R-CALF to staffer Bullard.

MRJ

Now if that was Dittmer, Sadhusker would be babbling about a one man foundation. isn't that how it goes Sadhusker?

Now THAT is humorous. Assuming that what you're commenting on is the gospel truth.

 

[Bill]

Here is another source or is DTN out there with Dittmer?

Shakeup In R-CALF Leadership
By Jerry Hagstrom
DTN Political Correspondent
Washington (DTN) — The Ranchers Cattlemen Action Legal Fund-United Stockgrowers of America has changed presidents, lost a key consultant and seen one of its founders resign in the last two weeks.
Bill Hawks, the former USDA undersecretary who had been a consultant for R-CALF, resigned, President Chuck Kiker was replaced and R-CALF founder Leo McDonnell also resigned.
Hawks left in a blowup over letters sent to Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns in early January.
R-CALF, which was founded in 1998 because some western ranchers believed the National Cattlemen's Beef Association was too conciliatory toward imports and the meat processing industry, has had a long-term position against imports of beef and cattle from Canada. R-CALF opposed the imports on the basis that they allow U.S. meat processors to avoid paying higher prices for cattle and meat and on the grounds that Canada does not have sufficient protections against bovine spongiform encephalopathy.
On Jan. 7, R-CALF CEO Bill Bullard sent Johanns a letter stating the group's opposition to USDA's proposed rule to allow the importation of Canadian beef from animals 30 months of age or older. Hawks confirmed that he advised R-CALF President Chuck Kiker, a Texas rancher, that the letter was offensive. On Jan. 8, Kiker sent a letter to Johanns that some R-CALF board members found too conciliatory and deferential to Johanns' decision-
making power on the 30-month rule.
Kathleen Kelly, a Colorado rancher and R-CALF founder said in an interview, she started a movement to remove Kiker for cause. Kelly said the letter to Johanns "wasn't offensive" to the secretary but that "the secretary's feelings aren't as important as how offensive the 30-month rule is.''
Bullard said that R-CALF received no expression of anger from USDA over the Jan. 7 letter.
On Jan. 31, Hawks resigned and in a conference call the board voted to remove Kiker as president and replace him with Max Thornsberry, a Missouri veterinarian. R-CALF founder Leo McDonnell, a Montana rancher, and several committee heads also resigned out of loyalty to Kiker. Kelly said the internal battle was over R-CALF's culture and an attempt to change the organization from one that refused to be "acquiescers" to "posturing R-CALF as a kinder, gentler R-CALF.''
Thornsberry will assemble his own leadership team out of R-CALF's more than 15,000 members, Kelly said. R-CALF's annual "stampede" to Washington for visits to members of Congress and USDA began Feb. 13. According to published reports from the group's annual convention in Denver, over the past year R-CALF has lost about 3,000 members who did not renew memberships with the organization. R-CALF also showed a $276,000 financial loss for last year because of lower membership fees.
At that same convention Kiker was criticized by members for his work on the Cattlemen's Beef Board, the group that disperses beef checkoff dollars and is closely allied with the National Cattlemen's Beef Association.

 

[Econ101]

Hawks left in a blowup over letters sent to Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns in early January.

What was the blowup about? If you disagree with the administration and the bribe paying packers, you get punished?

 

[Bill]

And more predicatble drivel from the one-man "foundation". What a hack....

So Junior what not the TRUTH with Dittmer's post?

What has EVER been the truth behind a Dittmer post?

OK what about DTN. Are they lieing and out to get ya too?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

Hawks left in a blowup over letters sent to Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns in early January.

What was the blowup about? If you disagree with the administration and the bribe paying packers, you get punished?

Econ get on the same page as the rest of us. Hawks was working for R-CALF.

 

[sw]

Ok here is what I heard yesterday at the MATE show in Billings. The letters are the fuse to the bomb. R-Laff never had a booth for the first time since their existence (course that is because they were all in DC doing their thing, sucking up to Baucus and now Tester) but it takes a nobody to man a booth at a trade show and hand out pamphlets, I can do that.
Now, since none of you want to respond to the allegations, here is the concerns. Membership in a BEEF organization gives you seats on Beef Councils in the states that then run the beef checkoff. If you are lying about membership numbers so you can get more seats on a state beef council, therefore affect national beef checkoff dollars, are you not frauds?
I want to see the real membership of R-Calf. They are claiming that the membership is down 3000 because of the way they are counting members has changed. They were saying that a ranch membership included everyone on the ranch, ie, if a ranch has a membership of 1, it was counted as 15 if the ranch has four members of the family and 9 employees. Good accounting.
Also, Chuck Kiker was elected to the CBB 6 months before being elected as President of R-Laff, so he knows how things work with the Checkoff, the CBB and NCBA. His postition is no different than the two ladies from Montana Cattlemens Assoc. According to membership of MCA they earned 2 seats on the Montana Beef Council because of membership numbers. Those two know absolutley nothing about how checkoff dollars are spent and they will not listen to anybody that knows anything because they know it all. I think they are so brainwashed and ignorant of the reality of producing beef, they are cow/calf producers not beef producers, so none of this stuff even matters. Who the hell would buy your calves if not a feeder or a packer? Somebody explain to me how it would work without all of the members of this chain?
They will not give out the real members names as that is proprietary information. MBC should ask for an audit to prove that an R-calf affilate really deserves those seats. This has been BS from the get go and if Lying Leo bails on his and Pat Goggins organization you guys are toast.

 

[Anonymous]

Your plan sounds good enough sw-- if the same is done to NCBA....Publish all names and all numbers....Amounts collected and amouts spent- and where for both organizations.......

 

[Econ101]

Hawks left in a blowup over letters sent to Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns in early January.

What was the blowup about? If you disagree with the administration and the bribe paying packers, you get punished?

Econ get on the same page as the rest of us. Hawks was working for R-CALF.

I know who Hawks is: William T. Hawks. Under Secretary of Agriculture. for Marketing and Regulatory Programs. There was a big criticism of GIPSA that they were not going through the process and writing new regulations explaining the position of GIPSA on the PSA in regards to specific situations that they knew were happening in the industry that they knew were wrong. This made sure that GIPSA was shackled when it came to actual enforcement of the law by GIPSA employees. The fix was in.

Hawks over saw GIPSA as part of his duties before the whole OIG investigation showed the agency was a fraud. He was replaced shortly thereafter.

My question is, when Bill Hawks sent letters to Johanns (who he obviously knew from his position in the USDA), why would the administration get upset about the content of those letters?

Johanns is running the USDA for the puppeteers, not for food safety or enforcement of the Packers and Stockyards Act (for which GIPSA has responsibility of carrying out).

Did he just get mad that Hawks wrote letters to the USDA expressing rcalf's position that differed with the administration's position?

Rcalf made a coupe of getting Hawks to work for them although I do not know how effective he was for them. He was certainly connected.

 

[Big Muddy rancher]

What was the blowup about? If you disagree with the administration and the bribe paying packers, you get punished?

Econ get on the same page as the rest of us. Hawks was working for R-CALF.

I know who Hawks is: William T. Hawks. Under Secretary of Agriculture. for Marketing and Regulatory Programs. There was a big criticism of GIPSA that they were not going through the process and writing new regulations explaining the position of GIPSA on the PSA in regards to specific situations that they knew were happening in the industry that they knew were wrong. This made sure that GIPSA was shackled when it came to actual enforcement of the law by GIPSA employees. The fix was in.

Hawks over saw GIPSA as part of his duties before the whole OIG investigation showed the agency was a fraud. He was replaced shortly thereafter.

My question is, when Bill Hawks sent letters to Johanns (who he obviously knew from his position in the USDA), why would the administration get upset about the content of those letters?

Johanns is running the USDA for the puppeteers, not for food safety or enforcement of the Packers and Stockyards Act (for which GIPSA has responsibility of carrying out).

Did he just get mad that Hawks wrote letters to the USDA expressing rcalf's position that differed with the administration's position?

Rcalf made a coupe of getting Hawks to work for them although I do not know how effective he was for them. He was certainly connected.

ECON your wrong. Hawks didn't send the letters Bill Bullard and Chuck Kikker sent the letters. Your out of the loop.

 

[Econ101]

Econ get on the same page as the rest of us. Hawks was working for R-CALF.

I know who Hawks is: William T. Hawks. Under Secretary of Agriculture. for Marketing and Regulatory Programs. There was a big criticism of GIPSA that they were not going through the process and writing new regulations explaining the position of GIPSA on the PSA in regards to specific situations that they knew were happening in the industry that they knew were wrong. This made sure that GIPSA was shackled when it came to actual enforcement of the law by GIPSA employees. The fix was in.

Hawks over saw GIPSA as part of his duties before the whole OIG investigation showed the agency was a fraud. He was replaced shortly thereafter.

My question is, when Bill Hawks sent letters to Johanns (who he obviously knew from his position in the USDA), why would the administration get upset about the content of those letters?

Johanns is running the USDA for the puppeteers, not for food safety or enforcement of the Packers and Stockyards Act (for which GIPSA has responsibility of carrying out).

Did he just get mad that Hawks wrote letters to the USDA expressing rcalf's position that differed with the administration's position?

Rcalf made a coupe of getting Hawks to work for them although I do not know how effective he was for them. He was certainly connected.

ECON your wrong. Hawks didn't send the letters Bill Bullard and Chuck Kikker sent the letters. Your out of the loop.

Yes, I re read the article and see what you are saying, BMR. I don't know the content of the letter so I am not going to comment on it. It may or may not have been offensive. I don't think you should be rude when addressing the Secretary of Agriculture, but you shouldn't shy away from your points either. The Secretary of Agriculture overseas GIPSA which was shown to be a fraud so the Secretary has some credibility problems when it comes to making the agency carry out protections for producers.

I stand corrected.

 

[Tam]

There is another odd rumour going around about R-calf. Maybe some of the members on here can clarify it.
I heard ,from some Doctor friends I was having supper with, that R-calf had some T-shirts made for the office staff and others. They had "TEAM BULL" or "TEAM BALL" or something like that written on them, doesn't matter. The rumour is that these T-shirts were imported from China or Taiwan or somewhere and printed in Canada.
Is that true??? :???: :?

Close but no cigar Tim I read it was TEAM BILL and Administrative Assistant Candace Bullard,ran down to Wally World and had them printed up. Bill spared no expense to buy office uniforms. :wink:

It is totally amazing to me how many bits of truth some people have but mixed with outrageous falsehoods and with vital information missing they come to some very wrong conclusions. Non-members can play Diogenes all they want. I have no interest in helping them to the truth (what small bits of it I have). As for members, they will get the whole picture soon enough I would think.

This thread reminds me of the one time years ago when I was interviewed for a newspaper story. The story ended up bearing no resemblance to what I had told them in the interview. I wondered if I was even reading about myself. The little flashes of truth here taken grossly out of context and omitting other things are resulting in a much distorted picture, starting with Dittmer's article and getting even worse. In other circumstances it would even be humorous.

Gee again with the grossly out of context crap, ocm. Who should we believe, ocm, the guy that has been telling us all about his inside info and when asked to prove the credibility of that inside info runs and hides OR the emails from the R-CALF Board of Directors that quit and are explaining WHY? HUM GEE WHAT A HARD DECISION :?

Funny how the membership will get the whole picture soon but this was all boiling before your convention. I guess you were so busy belly bumping, butt slapping and hi fiving each other about a USDA official escorted by the Secret Service, coming to speak, you never noticed Chuck and Bill weren't speaking (to each other :wink: ). Why weren't you told that Kiker would be getting the boot over a couple of early JAN letters to the USDA, did your inside source dry up?
And I agree with Bill this is slap knee hilarious just as it is. R-CALF imploding is the best news that has hit Canada in a VERY LONG TIME :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Who do you think the 15,000 members will support in this battle when they get the whole picture? Staffer Bill or Founders Leo and Dennis

I think we are going to have a very interesting Spring. :wink:

 

[Tam]

I know who Hawks is: William T. Hawks. Under Secretary of Agriculture. for Marketing and Regulatory Programs. There was a big criticism of GIPSA that they were not going through the process and writing new regulations explaining the position of GIPSA on the PSA in regards to specific situations that they knew were happening in the industry that they knew were wrong. This made sure that GIPSA was shackled when it came to actual enforcement of the law by GIPSA employees. The fix was in.

Hawks over saw GIPSA as part of his duties before the whole OIG investigation showed the agency was a fraud. He was replaced shortly thereafter.

My question is, when Bill Hawks sent letters to Johanns (who he obviously knew from his position in the USDA), why would the administration get upset about the content of those letters?

Johanns is running the USDA for the puppeteers, not for food safety or enforcement of the Packers and Stockyards Act (for which GIPSA has responsibility of carrying out).

Did he just get mad that Hawks wrote letters to the USDA expressing rcalf's position that differed with the administration's position?

Rcalf made a coupe of getting Hawks to work for them although I do not know how effective he was for them. He was certainly connected.

ECON your wrong. Hawks didn't send the letters Bill Bullard and Chuck Kikker sent the letters. Your out of the loop.

Yes, I re read the article and see what you are saying, BMR. I don't know the content of the letter so I am not going to comment on it. It may or may not have been offensive. I don't think you should be rude when addressing the Secretary of Agriculture, but you shouldn't shy away from your points either. The Secretary of Agriculture overseas GIPSA which was shown to be a fraud so the Secretary has some credibility problems when it comes to making the agency carry out protections for producers.

I stand corrected.

From what I understand Bill's letter was rude and filled with inaccurate information due to Bills lack of knowledge of the law. And that is why Kiker's letter was sent to ask Johann to disregard it.

 

[Anonymous]

Sandcheska: "I've done it half a dozen times! I even started a new thread once so you idiots could find it easier! Then, every flippen time you post his crap again, the same challenge comes out; prove him wrong, prove him wrong."

No Sandcheska, what you did is what you always do, DECEPTION!

You took Dittmer's statements about Consumer Federation, Public Citizen, and Consumers Union as being statements about R-CALF in your typically deceptive manner.

You have the opportunity here to set the record straight. What seems to be the problem??? Can't handle the truth??? Take any statement that Dittmer has made here and bring the facts to the contrary...

Leo McDonnell resigning FROM HIS OWN ORGANIZATION??????

What more proof does anyone need that R-CULT was highjacked by the LMA and their followers (Kelly, Callicrate, and Bullard)

This is as clear as a bell. Kiker was not radical enough for the likes of Kelly, Callicrate, and Bullard.

You and OCM try to protect your little group of radicals as they unravel at the seams.

LIES HAVE SPEED BUT THE TRUTH HAS ENDURANCE!!!

The truth always wins in the end and that's why R-CULT can't win a court case being led by the likes of Johnny Smith, Herman Schumacher, Kathleen Kelly, Bill Bullard, and Mike Callicrate.

The day of reckoning has come!


~SH~

 

[ocm]

LIES HAVE SPEED BUT THE TRUTH HAS ENDURANCE!!!

~SH~

How true!

That means all this first stuff out is?????

 

[Bill]

LIES HAVE SPEED BUT THE TRUTH HAS ENDURANCE!!!

~SH~

How true!

That means all this first stuff out is?????

You claim to be one of the Klan insiders ocm. If you want to refute any of what has posted here over the last couple of days all you have to do is post the financials over the past couple of years. Show us how Dittmer lied.