Is anybody else having losses due to coyotes?

[Jeannie]

I have heard of people injecting hen eggs with a strain of distemper. The coyotes eat the eggs and contract distemper and spread it to the rest of the coyotes. In other words, you cause a outbreak of distemper in coyotes. Now that I think of it was not distemper but Parvo. Now where you get some parvo germs I don't know but blood from a positive animal should do it. I bet some on here knows how to do it.
This is safer than poising as it only effects canines (I think) and only those not vaccinated. Just make sure any domestic dogs in the area are vaccinated.
Good luck and let us know what works.

And where are you going to get the distemper or parvo virus from? The last time I checked, it wasn't available at the local Wal-Mart or hardware store. Viruses don't generally last very long outside the host body. There is world of difference between viruses and bacterium as far as viability is concerned.

 

[Jeannie]

Does anybody have some knowledge or recomendations reguarding this method of predator control?

Advertise for a trapper. We used to have coyote problems, then we hired a good trapper. Coyote problems gone! It's almost impossible to shoot enough of them to make a difference, as they are smart little b@^$%#$'). It doesn't take them long to figure that out. Depending on your location, poison may work - but you may be taking out a lot of pet dog's as well. That sounds to me like irresponsibility. The purpose of the whole exercise is to target the coyotes, not the local pet population. I wish you luck, but implore you to be selective. My dogs are confined unless I'm with them, but I would take a mighty dim view of something happening to them due to someone trying to unselectively reduce the coyote population.

 

[Jeannie]

pprm

Good post. I don't believe we should fight mother nature either. Nomadic man (we of the horse and cow clan) have worked with nature for centuries and that is why we have lasted. We can build any structure to protect us, but in time, nature will wear it out. If we follow the seasons as the wildlife does, we will be better off. At times we will still be caught unaware, but we will prevail.

What would happen if Argentina grass fed beef came into the country and the consumer decided that they wanted grass fattened beef and would pay more for it? How many would switch to all forage diet for their livestock if they could be payed a premium?

As for the coyote problem, how many would use horned longhorn steers for protection of livestock if it were proven that they worked and how many would let horns grow on their cattle if they found that they could then be better able to protect themselves? Maybe we need to cull the ones who can't or won't protect themselves against predators?

My first thought is that you're an idiot. My second thought is that your beliefs and ranching are mutually exclusive. My third thought is that the 'ones' that coyotes prey on are the babies who CANNOT protect themselves. They go for helpless babies. Newborns and calves up to several days old don't have the stamina and strength to travel with Mom to water, grass, etc., coyotes sneak up, kill the calf before mom realizes what is happening. In a perfect world, Mom would be there 24/7, but this is NOT a perfect world. Mom has to eat to provide milk for her calf. As for longhorn steers, coyotes don't go for something that big, unless he is very sick or injured, nor do steers have any inclination to protect the herd - either Mom's or calves.

 

[Jeannie]

Thanks Ben for your suggestions. I do have limited knowledge and access to the medicine you mentioned. But I don't know how to use anti-freeze. Would you please explain how. We have some cattle dogs that would need to be tied up and left at the house in order to use poisons. How can one use the above without kiilling the ranch dogs too?

The only way would be to make a map of where you left the baits and then confine/tie your dogs for a set amount of time, re-visit all the places you left baits, pick up what ever baits are left before turning your dogs loose. And, as far as I'm concerned, anti-freeze poisoning is absolutely out of the question. Yes, coyotes are predators, yes, they kill calves, sheep, goats, cats, dogs, mice, rats, bunnies, etc. BUT, they are here as a part of the Good Lord's ecological plan. As such, they deserve to die as dignified a death as possible. A quick shot whenever possible, not to be left in a leg hold trap any longer than necessary, under no circumstances to have to suffer the barbaric death of antifreeze, broken glass, etc. They are, after all, only trying to survive and provide for their own as well.

 

[Faster horses]

I agree with Jeannie.

We have a trapper here that only checks his traps every 3 or 4 days. Not acceptable to us, so he doesn't get to trap on our place. Why do we have to reduce ourselves to putting something in agony to eliminate it? As for the discussion about what coyotes do to calves, sheep, etc. that is nature. No, I don't like it~but when we put something out like antifreeze, we are taking the chance that something unintended could get into it. We know when we put it out the agony that it causes. We do in knowlingly. I don't think that is acceptable either. I don't have a problem with anything that kills coyotes quickly and only kills what it is intended for. Too bad that they took some of that stuff away from us.

I will say, we have never lost a calf to coyotes that we know of. We had a neighbor once that sure did, and he had the state fly helicopters to take care of the problem. The helicoptor flew, they got the coyotes and no other problem coyotes showed up to take their place. End of problem. And that has been 15 years ago.

 

[Silver]

We have never knowingly lost a healthy calf to coyotes either. Healthy beig the key word. And coyotes are thick here. We've lost 'em to wolves and bears, but that's a different problem. We have lost downer calves to coyotes, ravens, magpies, etc. because we didn't find the calf soon enough. Last year I chased magpies off a dead calf that they had pecked it's eyes and other soft tissue out of, picked it up, and heard it bawl. Yuck. As angry as I was at mother nature, I could only be really upset with myself.
As far as poisoning with antifreeze, I think that's a lowdown dirty rotten way of doing things. There is better poisons and methods than that.

 

[Juan]

Go buy some old killer bucks and ewes and turn them loose with the cattle.Coyotes much prefer them over cattle!

 

[Anonymous]

Talking about the workings of nature--Couple of days ago while driving in the north country I saw an eagle circling over a doe deer- as I got closer I could see this newborn fawn standing beside her- only been born shortly before I saw it.... That doe had a firm eye on that eagle and would paw every few seconds as she tried to lead baby away--made me "almost" want to help Mama-- but I think as long as she had the eagle spotted baby was probably safe--I hope she found a good place to hide him...

 

[Faster horses]

As my old friend used to say, "Mother Nature has no mercy for nobody."

A neighbor related this story to us this morning. They were AI'ing in the barn and up high was a birds nest. They were watching and some of the baby birds peeked over at them. All of a sudden they caught a movement along the 2x6's and a big 5' bullsnake was slithering along there to the birds nest. They did manage to get hold of the snake, pull him down and throw him over the fence.

I wouldn't doubt but what he would soon be back after the baby birds, eggs, etc.

 

[Jinglebob]

pprm

Good post. I don't believe we should fight mother nature either. Nomadic man (we of the horse and cow clan) have worked with nature for centuries and that is why we have lasted. We can build any structure to protect us, but in time, nature will wear it out. If we follow the seasons as the wildlife does, we will be better off. At times we will still be caught unaware, but we will prevail.

What would happen if Argentina grass fed beef came into the country and the consumer decided that they wanted grass fattened beef and would pay more for it? How many would switch to all forage diet for their livestock if they could be payed a premium?

As for the coyote problem, how many would use horned longhorn steers for protection of livestock if it were proven that they worked and how many would let horns grow on their cattle if they found that they could then be better able to protect themselves? Maybe we need to cull the ones who can't or won't protect themselves against predators?

My first thought is that you're an idiot. My second thought is that your beliefs and ranching are mutually exclusive. My third thought is that the 'ones' that coyotes prey on are the babies who CANNOT protect themselves. They go for helpless babies. Newborns and calves up to several days old don't have the stamina and strength to travel with Mom to water, grass, etc., coyotes sneak up, kill the calf before mom realizes what is happening. In a perfect world, Mom would be there 24/7, but this is NOT a perfect world. Mom has to eat to provide milk for her calf. As for longhorn steers, coyotes don't go for something that big, unless he is very sick or injured, nor do steers have any inclination to protect the herd - either Mom's or calves.

Well, hello from the idiot.

My point about the steers, was that in my experience, they will come on the run if they hear cows bawling and will hook and chase off anything that is bothering calves. I have seen cows out grazing with a big horned steer "babysitting" their calves. Might not work, but I've found few things in life that work 100 per cent. Might work better than losing calves.

If my beliefs and ranching are mutually exclusive, how come my family has been here and doing this for over 100 years? When my grandfather had a coyote starting to bother his stock, he would pen his sheep at night and let them out before daybreak. He would walk up a hill where the sheep would pass, on their way to feed. When the coyote came to get the sheep, he would shoot the problem coyote. End of problem.

His way might not be very practical for cow/calves, but sometimes you have to try different ways to solve a problem.

Oh, I see, never think outside the box, cuz' it makes the neighbors nervous! :shock:

 

[Jeannie]

Well, hello from the idiot.

My point about the steers, was that in my experience, they will come on the run if they hear cows bawling and will hook and chase off anything that is bothering calves. I have seen cows out grazing with a big horned steer "babysitting" their calves. Might not work, but I've found few things in life that work 100 per cent. Might work better than losing calves.

Might work, but I'm not holding my breath. Sure they coming running when the hear cows bawling, then they usually spin and run even faster the other way!

If my beliefs and ranching are mutually exclusive, how come my family has been here and doing this for over 100 years?

You are not your family.

When my grandfather had a coyote starting to bother his stock, he would pen his sheep at night and let them out before daybreak. He would walk up a hill where the sheep would pass, on their way to feed. When the coyote came to get the sheep, he would shoot the problem coyote. End of problem.

Your grandfather sounds like a smart man, maybe you should implement some of his practices. Would probably get you a lot farther.

His way might not be very practical for cow/calves, but sometimes you have to try different ways to solve a problem.

I agree 100%, but it usually works better to try to hedge the bet in your favor.

Oh, I see, never think outside the box, cuz' it makes the neighbors nervous! :shock:

You said that, I didn't. For what it's worth, I said my first thought was that you were an idiot. That does not mean, nor did I intend, I said you an idiot. My temper has a tendency to rise very quickly when people put animals through needless suffering. Not an excuse, simply an explanation. Have a good day! [/quote]

 

[sabrina45]

I am a new member, You folks are fascinating in your logic. I am not a farmer, I live in Rhode Island. We have a terrible coyote problem here right in our city streets. Our domestic pets are meeting brutal cruel deaths.They are being attacked right at our doors on our own property. The city officials here are doing zippo about the problem. Bringing in the Defenders of Animals guys to pep talk us into how we all must now live together. However they are not interesting in protecting our loving furry family members. The nembers are really bad here and they just wrote an article in the paper to tell us, now that the pups are out foraging we can expect to see many more. Swell. That really made my day, especially after we found some of our kittys body parts all over the property. Do they ever go after small children, toddlers put outside in what used to be a safe yard? I am rapidly bringing as much info to the 'shirts' at city hall as I can gather. I think I have finally hit the right site. You guys seem very familiar with the problem. I would appreciate any and all info you could write to me and about ways of detering these uninvited predators who butcher and kill. And what they kill. We are being told that they will ONLY KILL SMALL ANIMALS, Nothing larger that themselves. Is this true?
Please help a city personeven though I am not a farmer or a rancher.
You can e-mail me at [email protected]

 

[EJ]

I found a coyotes kill on Saturday. The calf was 4 days old and was the last was out of a 2nd calfer. I doubt anything was wrong with it other then being bedded down in some buck brush while moma was out grazeing or heading to water.

I have seen first hand 4 coyotes killing a doe after running her into a snow bank, "when we had snow".

 

[nr]

To Sabrina45. Here are some overall statistics, I can't attest to their truth since I got them by searching on Google using "coyote attacks children". You might try that because there were other referenced as well:

Officials with the California Department of Fish and Game estimate that roughly one person gets bitten by a coyote per year in California. The last human to be killed by a coyote was a child in the Los Angeles area around 1980. (SDUT 1/3/95, B1; 5/16/00, B3)
For comparison, over 300 people have been killed by domestic dogs in the U.S. between 1979 and the late 1990s. (Humane Society of the U.S., reported in Tracking and the Art of Seeing, Paul Rezendes, second edition, 1999, p. 194)


From 1993 to 1997 there were seven coyote attacks on humans in Arizona, with over half in 1997. (SDUT 12/17/97, A3)

"The best estimates assert that, in recorded history, there have been 20 to 30 coyote attacks on humans that resulted in injuries." (Tracking and the Art of Seeing, Paul Rezendes, second edition, 1999, p. 194)
Paul's summary is much lower than the total number derived from the previous estimates; perhaps the definition of injuries is different for his estimate. At one person per year in California, one would estimate ~10 attacks per year in the U.S., giving 500 attacks in the last 50 years alone.

Here are the attacks I know about, which is undoubtedly not a complete list:


1993. A coyote bit a Fallbrook, California boy as he slept on the deck of his home. (SDUT 1/3/95, B1)

7/20/95. Fifteen-month-old Erica Galvin of Reno, Nev., suffered seven puncture wounds to her right thigh when a coyote sneaked up on her about 4 p.m. Thursday near the merry-go-round and tennis courts at Griffith Park in Los Angeles. The coyote was scared away by her mother. (SDUT 7/24/95, A3)

6/13/96. A 3-year-old Palo Alto boy was attacked by a 2-year-old male coyote at the Windy Hills Open Space Preserve in Portola Valley, near Los Altos, CA. As the family was packing up the car after a picnic, the coyote used his teeth to grab the boy by the hand and drag him toward nearby bushes. The boy was playing with a Frisbee which was also bit by the coyote. The boy's 15-year-old brother scared away the coyote. The coyote was later trapped, and DNA testing (from the Frisbee) was attempted to make the id certain.
This was the first attack in the 25 year history of this Preserve. (Los Altos Town Crier 7/24/96)


10/96? (< 4/11/97). A 40-year-old woman jogger in Benkelman, Nebraska, was bitten on the leg when a coyote attacked her as she jogged around an athletic track. (Animal Damage Control Program of the USDA)

2/17/97. Lauren Bridges, a 40 pound, 4-year-old girl, was attacked by a 40 pound female coyote when she left her vacation rental on Saddle Road in South Lake Tahoe, CA. The coyote knocked her to the ground and began biting her face, the only part not covered by ski clothes. Her father heard her screams and pulled the coyote off his daughter as it continued ripping at her face with its teeth. Lauren required 22 stitches for 16 wounds to the girl's face, neck and scalp, out of a total of over 30 puncture wounds. One of the puncture wounds came within a centimeter of her jugular vein. The father was not bitten, and the coyote was killed moments later by a police officer. (Tahoe World region 2/24/97, 2/19/97 and 3/5/97)
In the previous month at South Lake Tahoe, Supervisor John Upton reported that a man was bitten by a coyote, other skiers were chased by coyotes, and children walking to school were followed by coyotes. Apparently, people had been feeding coyotes in the area, accustoming the coyotes to people. (Placerville Mountain Democrat 2/24/97)


4/97. Coyotes attacked and bit two Scottsdale, Arizona children in separate attacks within a week. Neither child was seriously hurt. (SDUT 12/17/97, A3)

12/10-11/97. On 12/10/97, a coyote attacked a 2-year-old boy in Tucson's Wildlife Ridge Park, but did not break his skin. The next day, in the same park, a 4-year-old boy was bitten and scratched and a 22-month-old toddler was bitten around her right eye and required seven stitches for the deep puncture wounds. (SDUT 12/17/97, A3)

7/29/98. There has been only one coyote attack on a human reported in Massachusetts in the past 50 years, on 3-year-old Daniel Neal of Sandwich while he was playing on his swing set. His mother forced the female coyote off Daniel, but the coyote hung around. Police responding to her call killed the coyote.
Daniel suffered puncture wounds and abrasions to the head, shoulders and back, but is OK. The same coyote had earlier chased a person on a bike and a jogger as well as chewing on a sleeping bag with a child inside.

The first active coyote den on Cape Cod was found in 1985.

In comparison, there are thousands of dog bites annually in Massachusetts. (Cape Cod Times 7/30/98; Environmental News Network, 8/5/98; Lexington Minuteman, 3/15/00)


1999. Seven people were bitten by coyotes between March and August in the Lake Tahoe area, including one tourist who was bitten in the thigh while walking in the Caesars Tahoe parking lot over Memorial Day weekend. Airplane flights at the South Lake Tahoe runway have been cancelled or delayed due to coyotes on the airport runway, who have even chased planes as they took off! In May, 1999, the airport was told by the FAA to find a solution to the problem. Animal control killed 19 of the boldest coyotes in the casino area. (SDUT 8/20/99, A28)

5/13/00. A 9-year-old boy was bitten in the buttocks by a possible coyote in a residential neighborhood in La Mesa, San Diego County, California. It was not 100% certain that the animal was a coyote. (SDUT 5/16/00, B3)

5/19/00. A 3-year-old boy was bitten on his side outside his Amaya Drive apartment complex at 7 pm in La Mesa, San Diego County. A responding police officer hit the coyote with a shotgun blast, but the coyote was not found in the next day. The boy was treated at Grossmont Hospital for four puncture wounds in his right side. (SDUT 5/21/00, B3)

10/02/01. Allison Newell, an 8-year-old girl and Luis Enrique Villalobos, a 7-year-old boy, were bitten by a coyote at 12:15 pm during the lunch hour at Truman Benedict Elementary School in San Clemente, California. The coyote bit the backpack of a third child. The coyote came into the lunch area and attacked Allison from behind. Fourth-grade teacher Mitch Colapinto threw water bottles and rocks at the coyote, which then ran through the playground and lunged at Luis. Both students suffered scratches and minor bite wounds, the girl on the back of her neck and the boy on his back and arm. They were treated at San Clemente Hospital and released. The treatment included beginning a series of rabies shots.
The school is surrounded by hillsides where homes are being built, destroying the natural habitat of the coyotes. Three coyotes were killed on a nearby hillside later in the day by wildlife specialists from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

There have been a handful of other recent incidents in Northridge and Irvine. (LAT 10/3/01, B3, OCR 10/3/01)

Abbreviations:
LAT Los Angeles Times
OCR Orange County Register
SDUT is the San Diego Union Tribune



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[Northern Rancher]

Coyotes easily kill deer if they pack up a bit and they do kill the odd calf on us but not to numbers we can't live with-I can see them getting to be a 'big' problem in the suburbs where they'd be impossible to hunt. There is a power snare made for trapping urban coyotes-it catches them but doesn't kill them so if you get a pet you can release it.

 

[kevin]

if ya see it shoot it. you wont go wrong with that. chances are the ones that you can kill will be eat by other coyotes. the experience we have here in southren tennessee is that if they wont run from ya something is wrong with them. but that is not always true i guess for all parts of the nation. so i hate to hear about the retirment plan wish i could help.

 

[Jeannie]

And what they kill. We are being told that they will ONLY KILL SMALL ANIMALS, Nothing larger that themselves. Is this true?
Please help a city personeven though I am not a farmer or a rancher.
You can e-mail me at [email protected]

No, this is not true. The average coyote here in Wyoming weighs in at about 40-45 pounds - give or take. The average calf weighs in at approximately 70 pounds. Coyotes will bring down and kill that newborn calf. How often it happens depends on how many coyotes are present, whether there is other food (rabbits, fawns, deer, antelope, mice, etc), how good the cow herd is at protecting their babies from the coyotes, how harsh the winter has been, and a multitude of other things.

Also, coyotes will mate with domestic dogs - the offspring is called Coydog, and they will also mate with wolves - I don't know what the offspring of that mating is called. I'm fairly sure I don't have to explain the ramifications of both of these matings. They are very smart, also, which makes them hard to trap, hard to shoot, hard to catch. I saw an article recently about coyotes attacking children, but I can't remember the details nor can I remember where I saw it at to find it. Sorry.

 

[sabrina45]

Thank all of you for your replies. Really truly appreciated by me and my family. There will be a meeting tomorrow night and a couple of the shirts will be there. You have given me some wonderful if 'incredible' information to print out and bring to that meeting. I have talked to many local people and all have 'seen' them walking around. When I ask if they have reported the sightings, they say, "No." Rhode Island is a tad backward in many things I have lived here since '86' from Boston and I am always amazed about how the Rhodys accept being ......and not even being kissed. A very passive state. We live down by the water and I just saw the sighting report map last updated March 2005. Our area is a mass of large and small red dots especially around the water. Does anyone know why they are so many so close to the water?
Thank You again, Please continue to send information and tips about how to discourage them from our yard. Everything is appreciated.
Thank You

 

[Ranchero]

Sabrina45,
I've seen coyotes kill a full grown cow and calf while she was giving birth. The coyotes started biting the cow in the rear end while the calf is coming out, they keep biting her in the vaginal area and the extruding calf until she bleeds to death. The calf is chewed to death before he even gets his first breath of air. I have read many senarios here about people talking like the coyotes are not much of a problem. I say you are very fortunate to have have government paid predator control agents helping. We don't have these government trappers in my area and the predators are the greatest cause of livestock losses to the ranchers here. We must control the problem ourselves and it is a very big job. How would you like to lose 50 percent of your calf crop to coyotes. It happens here to many of the ranchers every year. I would suggest you start some type of coyote control soon. I've heard people give all kinds of crazy advice on what not to do about the POOR Coyotes. I have to say they are very inexperienced in these matters. Coyotes will come right into your yard and kill 80-90 lb calves and whatever else they find available. I have a very healthy herd of cattle that will protect their young and the coyotes are a force of destruction like none other. They are killing machines, no good for nothing. Many people in the US don't know what it is like to ranch without the aid of government trappers. I can tell you it is a great challenge.

 

[2dogs]

We run a smaller operation I'm sure than all of you, none the less we still loose 1 calf to coyotes every year. We probably losse 1 to lions also on a different ranch. What has happened lately is a farmer has about 3 acres of grapes adjacent to our 600 acre pasture. During 2003 he lost most of his harvest to coyotes. Seems song dogs love grapes. We shoot every one we see but it doesn't seem we put a dent in the population.

2 weeks ago while I was mowing hemlock and brush a coyote was working the area right behind the tractor, maybe 20 feet away. He must have caught 20 mice, gophers, and snakes within an hours time. He left when his stomach was full, I could see it bulge out. He was a sweet nice little coyote. I'd have shot if I had a rifle with me.