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It’s the Uncertainty, Stupid

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As I've told you before Big Muddy- I'm an Independent-- and don't follow the drumbeat of any one party....I agree with differing issues of differing parties-disagree with others.... But especially in the social issues- and government staying out of peoples personal lives and bedrooms- I follow much of the Libertarian Parties platform..

As the MSU-B study of a couple years ago showed- most Montanans lean more Libertarian than any other platform-- which was again shown this year when the anti-abortion folks couldn't get enough signatures on a petition to put it on the ballot....Most Montanans figure, like I do, that is a decision government shouldn't have its nose in.....

These are the principles of the Libertarian Party 2010 Platform that I pretty much agree with....

Personal Liberty

Individuals should be free to make choices for themselves and to accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. No individual, group, or government may initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Our support of an individual's right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices.

Expression and Communication

We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation or control of communications media and technology. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions which either aid or attack any religion.

Personal Privacy

Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons,
homes, and property.
Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held
by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. Only actions that infringe on the rights
of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating "crimes" without
victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes.


Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the
government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,
immigration or military service laws.
Government does not have the authority to define, license or
restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices
and personal relationships.


Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

Crime and Justice

Government exists to protect the rights of every individual including life, liberty and property. Criminal laws should be limited to violation of the rights of others through force or fraud, or deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Individuals retain the right to voluntarily assume risk of harm to themselves. We support restitution of the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. We oppose reduction of constitutional safeguards of the rights of the criminally accused. The rights of due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must not be denied. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law.

Self-Defense

The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired
property — against aggression.
This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by
any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment
to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense.

We oppose all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the
ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.


Education

Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement.

National Defense

We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression.
The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as
policeman for the world
.
We oppose any form of compulsory national service.

Internal Security and Individual Rights

The defense of the country requires that we have adequate intelligence to detect and to counter
threats to domestic security. This requirement must not take priority over maintaining the civil
liberties of our citizens
.
The Constitution and Bill of Rights shall not be suspended even during time
of war.
Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be
subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government's use of secret classifications to
keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the
government has violated the law.


International Affairs

American foreign policy should seek an America at peace with the world. Our foreign policy should
emphasize defense against attack from abroad and enhance the likelihood of peace by avoiding
foreign entanglements
.
We would end the current U.S. government policy of foreign intervention,
including military and economic aid.
We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and
defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of
terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by
political or revolutionary groups.

Rights and Discrimination

We condemn bigotry as irrational and repugnant. Government should not deny or abridge any individual's rights based on sex, wealth, race, color, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation.

Representative Government

We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.
 
I haven't heard of anybody that is advocating no taxes. :roll:

Another strawman.

What part of excessive spending creates a need for economic stifiling taxes do you Libs. not understand.

It's about balance, not doing away with one, or both. But OT always has to claim that the extreme is being advocated.
 
hypocritexposer said:
I haven't heard of anybody that is advocating no taxes. :roll:

Another strawman.

What part of excessive spending creates a need for economic stifiling taxes do you Libs. not understand.

It's about balance, not doing away with one, or both. But OT always has to claim that the extreme is being advocated.

Part of the ********* movement advocates that all taxes- or in the case of some signs I saw "income taxes" are unconstitutional.... That sounds to me like advocating no taxes...
Or maybe those out there standing on the corners with those no taxes signs saying they are Teabaggers aren't really so- as nobody seems to know who is- or isn't- who their leader(s) is- what their platform is (racist-not racist ? homophobe- non homophobe ?)- or what they think they will accomplish..... :???:
 
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
I haven't heard of anybody that is advocating no taxes. :roll:

Another strawman.

What part of excessive spending creates a need for economic stifiling taxes do you Libs. not understand.

It's about balance, not doing away with one, or both. But OT always has to claim that the extreme is being advocated.

Part of the ********* movement advocates that all taxes- or in the case of some signs I saw "income taxes" are unconstitutional.... That sounds to me like advocating no taxes...
Or maybe those out there standing on the corners with those no taxes signs saying they are Teabaggers aren't really so- as nobody seems to know who is- or isn't- who their leader(s) is- what their platform is (racist-not racist ? homophobe- non homophobe ?)- or what they think they will accomplish..... :???:

T axed
E nough
A lready

P
A
R
T
Y


Mission Statement
The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.


Core Values
•Fiscal Responsibility
•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Markets


Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject its citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.

Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.

Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.


Our Philosophy
Tea Party Patriots, Inc. as an organization believes in the Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America, the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights" by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The Tea Party Patriots stand with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.
 
that's right it is about balance and you can go to haiti where a few are very wealthy and everyone else is truly destitute. if you believe the statistics wealth in america is becoming more concentrated as well. why doesn't the tea party rail against that or are they a tool of the wealthy? the tax system is supposed to be part of the balancing mechanism. if you think the wealthy have what they have purely by their own virtue think again. i know families that gained a great deal by being cozy with the nazi party in germany in the thirties. did they make their money or did slave labour make it for them? does lobbying the federal govt. give the wealthy an unfair advantage over the average tea party voter? it would be nice if the world was so simple as american govt. propaganda has been telling americans for the last couple hundred years (along with hollywood) but it's largely crap and that's why we are where we are. the next ten years will see some huge changes.
 
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
I haven't heard of anybody that is advocating no taxes. :roll:

Another strawman.

What part of excessive spending creates a need for economic stifiling taxes do you Libs. not understand.

It's about balance, not doing away with one, or both. But OT always has to claim that the extreme is being advocated.

Part of the ********* movement advocates that all taxes- or in the case of some signs I saw "income taxes" are unconstitutional.... That sounds to me like advocating no taxes...
Or maybe those out there standing on the corners with those no taxes signs saying they are Teabaggers aren't really so- as nobody seems to know who is- or isn't- who their leader(s) is- what their platform is (racist-not racist ? homophobe- non homophobe ?)- or what they think they will accomplish..... :???:

T axed
E nough
A lready

P
A
R
T
Y


Mission Statement
The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.


Core Values
•Fiscal Responsibility
•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Markets


Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject its citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.

Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.

Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.


Our Philosophy
Tea Party Patriots, Inc. as an organization believes in the Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America, the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights" by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The Tea Party Patriots stand with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.

OT paints with a pretty broad brush doesn't he?
I wonder if on a liberal forum He would be a TEA partier?
 
that's right it is about balance and you can go to haiti where a few are very wealthy and everyone else is truly destitute.

Haiti, once called The Jewel of the Antilles, was the richest colony in the entire world.

The French imported sugar, coffee, cocoa, tobacco, cotton, the dye indigo and other exotic products. In France they were refined, packaged and sold all over Europe. Incredible fortunes were made from this tiny colony on the island of Hispaniola.

Indeed, the people did not sit willingly by. The history of Haiti from early colonial days until the present is one of constant resistance, constant rebellion

Perhaps the oddest cause of poverty anywhere in the world is the fact of language in Haiti. In a word, the imposition of French on the country is an immediate cause of Haiti's misery.

French is the official language of the country. All state business is carried on in French, the schools educate mainly in French. Social prestige is related to the ability to speak French. Yet only about 10% of the people can even get along in French, with less than 5% knowing the language fluently. Creole is the language of the masses. 100% of the Haitians speak and understand Creole as their mother tongue.

The road to social, economic and intellectual development is reserved to the speakers of French, while the masses are kept in their misery because their language is not recognized nor allowed as an official language.

One of the results of this oppression of language is a national illiteracy rate which is very close to 90% in the cities, and higher in rural areas. It is hard to calculate the suffering tied to illiteracy and the ignorance of alternatives which comes with illiteracy and lack of education. When a whole people cannot read, they are cut off from advances in knowledge.

Thus they are condemned to repeat the forms of life they have developed whether or not those practices have negative aspects. Haitian life has many disastrous practices and these account for much of her misery.

It is ignorance that allows traditional practices in agriculture or education, health care or house-hold hygiene. Some of these practices are killing Haitians unnecessarily and destroying the agricultural base of this agricultural land. This harmful ignorance is the direct result of the illiteracy which defines the nation.

and that is only the start of the problems for haiti...

one would think the UN poster child would fair better..

Legally, education is free and open to all.
 
Big Muddy rancher said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
Part of the ********* movement advocates that all taxes- or in the case of some signs I saw "income taxes" are unconstitutional.... That sounds to me like advocating no taxes...
Or maybe those out there standing on the corners with those no taxes signs saying they are Teabaggers aren't really so- as nobody seems to know who is- or isn't- who their leader(s) is- what their platform is (racist-not racist ? homophobe- non homophobe ?)- or what they think they will accomplish..... :???:

T axed
E nough
A lready

P
A
R
T
Y


Mission Statement
The impetus for the Tea Party movement is excessive government spending and taxation. Our mission is to attract, educate, organize, and mobilize our fellow citizens to secure public policy consistent with our three core values of Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets.


Core Values
•Fiscal Responsibility
•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Markets


Fiscal Responsibility: Fiscal Responsibility by government honors and respects the freedom of the individual to spend the money that is the fruit of their own labor. A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject its citizenry to high levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was designed to protect. Such runaway deficit spending as we now see in Washington D.C. compels us to take action as the increasing national debt is a grave threat to our national sovereignty and the personal and economic liberty of future generations.

Constitutionally Limited Government: We, the members of The Tea Party Patriots, are inspired by our founding documents and regard the Constitution of the United States to be the supreme law of the land. We believe that it is possible to know the original intent of the government our founders set forth, and stand in support of that intent. Like the founders, we support states' rights for those powers not expressly stated in the Constitution. As the government is of the people, by the people and for the people, in all other matters we support the personal liberty of the individual, within the rule of law.

Free Markets: A free market is the economic consequence of personal liberty. The founders believed that personal and economic freedom were indivisible, as do we. Our current government's interference distorts the free market and inhibits the pursuit of individual and economic liberty. Therefore, we support a return to the free market principles on which this nation was founded and oppose government intervention into the operations of private business.


Our Philosophy
Tea Party Patriots, Inc. as an organization believes in the Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government, and Free Markets. Tea Party Patriots, Inc. is a non-partisan grassroots organization of individuals united by our core values derived from the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States of America, the Bill Of Rights as explained in the Federalist Papers. We recognize and support the strength of grassroots organization powered by activism and civic responsibility at a local level. We hold that the United States is a republic conceived by its architects as a nation whose people were granted "unalienable rights" by our Creator. Chiefly among these are the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." The Tea Party Patriots stand with our founders, as heirs to the republic, to claim our rights and duties which preserve their legacy and our own. We hold, as did the founders, that there exists an inherent benefit to our country when private property and prosperity are secured by natural law and the rights of the individual.

OT paints with a pretty broad brush doesn't he?
I wonder if on a liberal forum He would be a TEA partier?


That is only one of the dozens of Tea Party groups---Tea Party Patriots, Inc.-- all with their own personal agendas to play to their type folks so they can suck in a few more dollars, sell a few more T shirts and beer mugs... Besides the "no tax", "anti income tax", racial, and homophobic groups-I saw one bunch that were nothing but "Birthers" using the ********* forum to scream and yell....
 
don said:
that's right it is about balance and you can go to haiti where a few are very wealthy and everyone else is truly destitute. if you believe the statistics wealth in america is becoming more concentrated as well. why doesn't the tea party rail against that or are they a tool of the wealthy? the tax system is supposed to be part of the balancing mechanism. if you think the wealthy have what they have purely by their own virtue think again. i know families that gained a great deal by being cozy with the nazi party in germany in the thirties. did they make their money or did slave labour make it for them? does lobbying the federal govt. give the wealthy an unfair advantage over the average tea party voter? it would be nice if the world was so simple as american govt. propaganda has been telling americans for the last couple hundred years (along with hollywood) but it's largely crap and that's why we are where we are. the next ten years will see some huge changes.

About the best example is just south of us- Mexico-- where all the wealth is in the hands of the few and they control the corrupt government...The reason Mexico is only inches away from full blown civil war...

I often wonder if a US mass deportation of illegals- who have tasted freedom and a higher standard of living- wouldn't be the catalyst that set it off :???:
 
don said:
that's right it is about balance and you can go to haiti where a few are very wealthy and everyone else is truly destitute. if you believe the statistics wealth in america is becoming more concentrated as well. why doesn't the tea party rail against that or are they a tool of the wealthy? the tax system is supposed to be part of the balancing mechanism. if you think the wealthy have what they have purely by their own virtue think again. i know families that gained a great deal by being cozy with the nazi party in germany in the thirties. did they make their money or did slave labour make it for them? does lobbying the federal govt. give the wealthy an unfair advantage over the average tea party voter? it would be nice if the world was so simple as american govt. propaganda has been telling americans for the last couple hundred years (along with hollywood) but it's largely crap and that's why we are where we are. the next ten years will see some huge changes.

Um - the tax system is to collect funds for the treasury, period. All the other fluff is to make it fair, or at least give the perception of fairness.

Lobbying the lawmakers gives industries and special interests who can afford to hire the professional lobbyists, many of whom are former lawmakers themselves and have friends and connections, a huge advantage over Mr. and Mrs. Average Taxpayer.

I make sure my senators and representatives hear from me on issues important to me. It's as easy as sending an email these days. The response you eventually get back can be enlightening, too. Out of sight, out of mind; squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all that.
 
Oldtimer said:
Big Muddy rancher said:
hypocritexposer said:
T axed
E nough
A lready

P
A
R
T
Y

OT paints with a pretty broad brush doesn't he?
I wonder if on a liberal forum He would be a TEA partier?


That is only one of the dozens of Tea Party groups---Tea Party Patriots, Inc.-- all with their own personal agendas to play to their type folks so they can suck in a few more dollars, sell a few more T shirts and beer mugs... Besides the "no tax", "anti income tax", racial, and homophobic groups-I saw one bunch that were nothing but "Birthers" using the ********* forum to scream and yell....

So, do you support this "one of dozens" in their goals or not?

Are you against Fiscal Responsibility, Constitutionally Limited Government and Free Markets?

Is this group "racist" or Radical for asking for these 3 things from their Government reps?

Because if I remember correctly these are the types of things you were asking for under the Bush Presidency, weren't you?

And wasn't it obama who promised the same?

Would that make obama a "*********"
 
The true free market system is only a dream in folks minds- as it hasn't existed in this country in the last 230+ years...

The same with less government involvement in this nonexistent capitalist system won't work...As corporates get more interinvolved in worldwide conglomerates and go multinational the laws/rules and oversight need to be stronger rather than less- or you end up with what we saw with another Bush Bust....State laws will not work like they did before- as we are now dealing with multinational entities that can only be controlled at the Federal levels....

In a civilized world regulation, rules, oversight, and enforcement is needed at all levels..If not we would need no policemen- or no Judges...Even in Gold Rush days the first thing a new boomtown did was set up a government- and laws- and acquire enforcement...Sometimes at first it was just a Miners Council or Miners Court- and Vigilante enforcers...And they developed as the city/community grew....

And as the Wall Street crew showed with the last few years of worse than casino gambling with other folks money- they definitely do need not only a baby sitter- but some strong oversight/enforcement....Crooks are not limited to backstreet alleys ....

Even the ancient Romans had anti-trust/fair competition laws... We would not have had the "too big to allow fails" that GW had to bail out- if GW/Clinton would have done any kind of anti-trust enforcement on some of the multinational conglomerates- especially in the insurance and banking industries...
 
Oldtimer said:
The true free market system is only a dream in folks minds- as it hasn't existed in this country in the last 230+ years...

The same with less government involvement in this nonexistent capitalist system won't work...As corporates get more interinvolved in worldwide conglomerates and go multinational the laws/rules and oversight need to be stronger rather than less- or you end up with what we saw with another Bush Bust....State laws will not work like they did before- as we are now dealing with multinational entities that can only be controlled at the Federal levels....

In a civilized world regulation, rules, oversight, and enforcement is needed at all levels..If not we would need no policemen- or no Judges...Even in Gold Rush days the first thing a new boomtown did was set up a government- and laws- and acquire enforcement...Sometimes at first it was just a Miners Council or Miners Court- and Vigilante enforcers...And they developed as the city/community grew....

And as the Wall Street crew showed with the last few years of worse than casino gambling with other folks money- they definitely do need not only a baby sitter- but some strong oversight/enforcement....Crooks are not limited to backstreet alleys ....

Even the ancient Romans had anti-trust/fair competition laws... We would not have had the "too big to allow fails" that GW had to bail out- if GW/Clinton would have done any kind of anti-trust enforcement on some of the multinational conglomerates- especially in the insurance and banking industries...

So you believe in unconstitutional big Government, no fiscal responsibility and no free market economics?

why is it, you are against the free market, when you have never seen how it can work?

If these 3 things are not possible, why did you vote for obama when he promised them. Why did you not call BS?
 
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
The true free market system is only a dream in folks minds- as it hasn't existed in this country in the last 230+ years... The same with less government involvement in this nonexistent capitalist system won't work...As corporates get more interinvolved in worldwide conglomerates and go multinational the laws/rules and oversight need to be stronger rather than less- or you end up with what we saw with another Bush Bust....State laws will not work like they did before- as we are now dealing with multinational entities that can only be controlled at the Federal levels.... In a civilized world regulation, rules, oversight, and enforcement is needed at all levels..If not we would need no policemen- or no Judges...Even in Gold Rush days the first thing a new boomtown did was set up a government- and laws- and acquire enforcement...Sometimes at first it was just a Miners Council or Miners Court- and Vigilante enforcers...And they developed as the city/community grew.... And as the Wall Street crew showed with the last few years of worse than casino gambling with other folks money- they definitely do need not only a baby sitter- but some strong oversight/enforcement....Crooks are not limited to backstreet alleys .... Even the ancient Romans had anti-trust/fair competition laws... We would not have had the "too big to allow fails" that GW had to bail out- if GW/Clinton would have done any kind of anti-trust enforcement on some of the multinational conglomerates- especially in the insurance and banking industries...
So you believe in unconstitutional big Government, no fiscal responsibility and no free market economics? why is it, you are against the free market, when you have never seen how it can work? If these 3 things are not possible, why did you vote for obama when he promised them. Why did you not call BS?
Why did you support GW when he did all three-- grew government faster than any Administration since FDR (sections of which like the Patriot Act most constitutionalists believe were unconstitutional)- put in more special interest influenced trade deals hindering the free market and free/fair trade with his fasttracked FTA trade deals- and was the most fiscally irresponsible President in my lifetime.. :???:

Wasn't much choice....
 
Oldtimer said:
hypocritexposer said:
Oldtimer said:
The true free market system is only a dream in folks minds- as it hasn't existed in this country in the last 230+ years... The same with less government involvement in this nonexistent capitalist system won't work...As corporates get more interinvolved in worldwide conglomerates and go multinational the laws/rules and oversight need to be stronger rather than less- or you end up with what we saw with another Bush Bust....State laws will not work like they did before- as we are now dealing with multinational entities that can only be controlled at the Federal levels.... In a civilized world regulation, rules, oversight, and enforcement is needed at all levels..If not we would need no policemen- or no Judges...Even in Gold Rush days the first thing a new boomtown did was set up a government- and laws- and acquire enforcement...Sometimes at first it was just a Miners Council or Miners Court- and Vigilante enforcers...And they developed as the city/community grew.... And as the Wall Street crew showed with the last few years of worse than casino gambling with other folks money- they definitely do need not only a baby sitter- but some strong oversight/enforcement....Crooks are not limited to backstreet alleys .... Even the ancient Romans had anti-trust/fair competition laws... We would not have had the "too big to allow fails" that GW had to bail out- if GW/Clinton would have done any kind of anti-trust enforcement on some of the multinational conglomerates- especially in the insurance and banking industries...
So you believe in unconstitutional big Government, no fiscal responsibility and no free market economics? why is it, you are against the free market, when you have never seen how it can work? If these 3 things are not possible, why did you vote for obama when he promised them. Why did you not call BS?
Why did you support GW when he did all three-- grew government faster than any Administration since FDR (sections of which like the Patriot Act most constitutionalists believe were unconstitutional)- put in more special interest influenced trade deals hindering the free market and free/fair trade with his fasttracked FTA trade deals- and was the most fiscally irresponsible President in my lifetime.. :???:

Wasn't much choice....

I didn't support Bush.

Why did you rail against Bush when he did all 3, and defend obama when he promised to do the opposite, but does the same?

Seems to me, if you were a principled person, you would speak out against what obama is doing, instead of defending him by arguing that 2 wrongs make a right.

that only damages your own credibility.

but once again, you tried to dodge the questions.

So you believe in unconstitutional big Government, no fiscal responsibility and no free market economics?

why is it, you are against the free market, when you have never seen how it can work?

If these 3 things are not possible, why did you vote for obama when he promised them. Why did you not call BS?


If what you say is true, why can't obama use his leadership abilities to explain this to the voting public?

why can't he say that what he promised is not possible?
 

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