jedstivers
Well-known member
I really like horned Herfords on black cows. I saved some jam up good heifers this year.
Just a dumb butt Texan
- Thread starter nortexsook
- Start date
I have a set of hereford cows I like. Moderate, milky and hustlers. I also have a black set I like but I think I like the herefords better. Nice thick bull but I wouldn't judge the quality of an animal with one rear photo. He's good from this angle.
Been seeing alot of sales in feeder cattle and bred cattle where they are sorting off the baldies. As picky as buyers are now days I think you need load lots of simular cattle no matter the breed to collect the most money for your ranch. I'm sure Soapweed's proof is on sale day and thats all that matters.
Hereford76
Well-known member
Well this thread can't come full circle till ot gets hammered first. Atleast I got a couple Xmas gift ideas out of it for soap when I get invited to the party.
I've been waiting on Katrina and Justin too...
I've been waiting on Katrina and Justin too...
Hereford76
Well-known member
Denny said:
What's the odds they are sortin off the bb cause they're more likely to make chb?
gcreekrch
Well-known member
I like selling loads in private sales. As long as the calves are good they take them all. Reds, blacks, baldies couple tans, a grey and a Hereford went on the heavy load this year. All our sale calves went to the same buyer and he said we couldn't have any back.
He phoned a week ago and told Debbie how they were doing. His first comment was, "They are the kind, and then some."
It is my belief that if you are going to crossbreed good cattle, you still have to stay with the same type as you are currently raising. Makes no sense (cents) to put hound gutted, pinass bulls on a set of thick cows.
He phoned a week ago and told Debbie how they were doing. His first comment was, "They are the kind, and then some."
It is my belief that if you are going to crossbreed good cattle, you still have to stay with the same type as you are currently raising. Makes no sense (cents) to put hound gutted, pinass bulls on a set of thick cows.
Soapweed
Well-known member
When an Angus bull is used on Hereford cows, there are very few horns to worry about with the offspring, even if the Hereford cows have horns (or were dehorned at one time). Angus cattle are a naturally polled breed.
When a polled Hereford bull is used on Angus cows, the offspring will all be polled. Even astute Hereford breeders argue amongst themselves about the thought of "no horns, no butt." If a horned Hereford bull is used on Angus cows, there will be more offspring born with horns.
In my advanced, crippled-up, lazier stage of life, horns are one problem that can be completely eliminated by breeding the right cattle. This is another reason I prefer straight Angus (naturally polled) cattle. This is also a reason I dabbled with the polled Hereford bulls. :wink:
Back when I used Charolais bulls on black baldy cows, I was buying most of the Charolais bulls from Elm Grove Charolais, owned and operated by Butch Fanning. Butch was promoting two herd bulls at the time. Polled Unlimited calves had a modest 80-85 pound birthweight and no horns to worry about. His other herd bull, Thomas Elevation, had horns and a 100 pound birthweight. The Polled Unlimited sons brought significantly more money, but I could always buy Thomas Elevation sons within my budget. I was young and ambitious in those days, and didn't mind horns at all. The Charolais bulls were only bred to cows that had already had at least three calves, so calving problems were never an issue. The calves that were born big always carried that extra weight through to weaning time, and were big when they were sold right off the cow. It seemed like a good formula at the time--inexpensive big birthweight bulls, fifteen dollars worth of dehorning paste, and big weaning weight calves that brought top dollar at the sale barn.
I used only F1 baldy cows for a year or two, and then used straight Angus cows also with the Charolais bulls. Charolais feeder calf buyers prefer black noses on the Charolais cross calves. With the F1 baldy cows, there were always some pink noses that the buyers turned up their noses at. With the Angus cows crossed with Charolais bulls, the calves were white with black noses, and very saleable. One fall I had a chance to sell my Charolais bulls for more money than I'd paid for them in the spring, so at that time went to straight black cattle. I don't want a terminal cross heifer calf as a replacement, so it is always easier finding breeding heifers from a straight bred herd.
When a polled Hereford bull is used on Angus cows, the offspring will all be polled. Even astute Hereford breeders argue amongst themselves about the thought of "no horns, no butt." If a horned Hereford bull is used on Angus cows, there will be more offspring born with horns.
In my advanced, crippled-up, lazier stage of life, horns are one problem that can be completely eliminated by breeding the right cattle. This is another reason I prefer straight Angus (naturally polled) cattle. This is also a reason I dabbled with the polled Hereford bulls. :wink:
Back when I used Charolais bulls on black baldy cows, I was buying most of the Charolais bulls from Elm Grove Charolais, owned and operated by Butch Fanning. Butch was promoting two herd bulls at the time. Polled Unlimited calves had a modest 80-85 pound birthweight and no horns to worry about. His other herd bull, Thomas Elevation, had horns and a 100 pound birthweight. The Polled Unlimited sons brought significantly more money, but I could always buy Thomas Elevation sons within my budget. I was young and ambitious in those days, and didn't mind horns at all. The Charolais bulls were only bred to cows that had already had at least three calves, so calving problems were never an issue. The calves that were born big always carried that extra weight through to weaning time, and were big when they were sold right off the cow. It seemed like a good formula at the time--inexpensive big birthweight bulls, fifteen dollars worth of dehorning paste, and big weaning weight calves that brought top dollar at the sale barn.
I used only F1 baldy cows for a year or two, and then used straight Angus cows also with the Charolais bulls. Charolais feeder calf buyers prefer black noses on the Charolais cross calves. With the F1 baldy cows, there were always some pink noses that the buyers turned up their noses at. With the Angus cows crossed with Charolais bulls, the calves were white with black noses, and very saleable. One fall I had a chance to sell my Charolais bulls for more money than I'd paid for them in the spring, so at that time went to straight black cattle. I don't want a terminal cross heifer calf as a replacement, so it is always easier finding breeding heifers from a straight bred herd.
katrina
Well-known member
Actually BB are our bread and butter.... We've had only a few cows so the numbers game wasn't a factor. Ours are sorted for replacements. We offer to bangs vaccinate for those who buy our hiefiers. I will try and get pictures of our hereford bulls and when I have lots of time try and download them. I can tell you now that our bulls are not pampered and are out in a pasture grazing with some hay. I appreciate all breeds of cattle and have respect for all breeds because I know what works for us doesn't for others. Quallity speaks for its self no matter the color.. Okay off my soap box and on to laundry..
nortexsook
Well-known member
redrobin said:
How 'bout this un?
or this un?
Larrry
Well-known member
In order to condemn that bull one would have to have a predisposed bias against Herefords.
Herefords got bit in the azz in years past by poo pooing the Angus and not taking the the Angus serious. I can see the pendulum swinging the other way and some Angus guys are scared just as the Hereford guys were in the past
The best way to combat that is just concentrate on good cattle that fit your environment and needs, no matter what breed.
Herefords got bit in the azz in years past by poo pooing the Angus and not taking the the Angus serious. I can see the pendulum swinging the other way and some Angus guys are scared just as the Hereford guys were in the past
The best way to combat that is just concentrate on good cattle that fit your environment and needs, no matter what breed.
3words
Well-known member
nortexsook said:redrobin said:
How 'bout this un?
or this un?
Whats that 2nd bull weigh?Is he ever carrying a lot of meat being in his working clothes.Impressive!!
nortexsook
Well-known member
Those three pics are all the same bull. Here is as rough as I could get him. He was breeding fall calvers in the winter and I did not feed him a flake of hay all winter. I feed a protein cube ONCE A WEEK TO these cows. Not pampered in any way.
This was him on the cows, breeding, in winter Texas pasture.
This was him on the cows, breeding, in winter Texas pasture.
3words
Well-known member
The only reason i didn't think he was the same bull,picture 2 didn't have the brand on his back hip like he does in picture 3.
nortexsook
Well-known member
3words said:
Just the angle and he was "haired up" a little.
I'd guess his current weight to be about 2400. In those pics which are a year old about 2300.
er herf
Member
Soapweed your statement that angus are polled(homozygous) is a true statement. But the statement that some Hereford angus crosses will have horns is not correct. The polled gene is dominant and all purebred Hereford, purebred angus F1s will be polled. As for a polled Hereford taking the horns off this, is not necessarily true. Not all polled Hereford bulls are homozygous polled. So if a heterozygous polled Hereford is bred to a heterozygous polled of whatever a quarter of the calves could be horned.
Soapweed
Well-known member
er herf said:
Thanks for the clarification. Somewhere I had gotten the idea that the cross of a horned bull on polled cows resulted in a few more horned calves than by using a polled bull on horned cows. I even tried looking this up on the internet, but GOOGLE failed me. :wink:
Soapweed
Well-known member
Polled and Horned
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extension/animal/news/aug96/aug96-3.html
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extension/animal/news/aug96/aug96-3.html
Hereford76
Well-known member
er herf said:
So is it proof positive its not a f1 when you have a horned baldy born by a purebred horned Hereford cow and purebred angus sire?
Also a question for someone with commercial black cows that carry recessive horn looking to use Hereford bull and you cannot find a homo polled bull you like but maybe find a hetero polled or horned Hereford bull you like and realize you will get a percentage horns either way which route do you choose. Also on the same cows you use a hetero polled bull expecting Zero horns but get them what would you reaction be? Just curious
gcreekrch
Well-known member
Hereford76 said:
Not having to dehorn at branding is a time saving and in this day a humane issue.
Having said that, I would never sacrifice all the other good things to consider in crossbreeding in preference of 100% polled calves.