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Just a thought on Marketing

Justin, colts are no different than kids, they are a product of their environment. They all show signs of a personality when they are very young, what they become is up to the people that have the power to help them mature and develop. Any body can spend a little time with a child and tell you if they are soft hearted and kind, animals aren't any different. Those tendencies never go away but they can be changed by their environment.. If you screw one up maybe you ought to think about what you have done to cause the problem or what has changed to cause the horse to develope a habit.
 
flyingS said:
Justin, colts are no different than kids, they are a product of their environment. They all show signs of a personality when they are very young, what they become is up to the people that have the power to help them mature and develop. Any body can spend a little time with a child and tell you if they are soft hearted and kind, animals aren't any different. Those tendencies never go away but they can be changed by their environment.. If you screw one up maybe you ought to think about what you have done to cause the problem or what has changed to cause the horse to develope a habit.
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you just proved my point as to why this type of sale would never work.
 
I am going to make one last comment then leave it rest. The guarantee would allow for a horse to return in the same mental and physical condition it left in. Meaning that if someone blows one up they own him. If the manager can see no sign of change that is due to mis-representation of the horse, tough, he is the buyers baby. You'll weed out the poor horse people that don't realize they are poor horse people. If a horse is represented as he is the seller has nothing to worry about. The only reason it won't fly is because the sellers don't have enough faith in their ability to represent their horse and try match a buyers experience level. A sale like this would not be a one day blow in and show'em and run them through and head home sale. It would take at least a couple of days of showing horse and letting people ride one so that everyone would have a chance to look at the horses they wanted to. It might never happen, but if I ever host one it will be that way. A man once told me, when I asked him how he got his start announcing rodeos and what steps he took to become as succesful as he was, " The cream always rises to the top." He died at a young age and was fast becoming one of the most popular announcers in the PRCA. He just kept doing what he did and had enough confidence to rise above everyone else's standard.
 
Somehow this discussion brings to mind a true story. A rancher/cowboy/horse producer had a production sale and sold a big tough gelding. A few days later the buyer came whining back and complained, "I thought you said that anything that could be done horseback could be done on this horse." The rancher, who is a top hand, clarified, "No, I said that I could do anything that could be done horseback on this horse. I didn't say that anyone else could."
 
And it reminds me of an old horse trader that was selling all his horses
and going to Australia. He had some comments in the sale catalog that
I remember well.

"We have short horses for short people, we have tall horses for tall
people. We have horses that don't like to be rode, for people that
don't like to ride."
 
well if and when this sale takes place, be sure to send me a catalog. i'd be very intested in reading the "terms & conditons" of the sale.
 
Most cowboys would rather die than admit they bought a horse they can't make work-most rodeo cowboys on the other hand are more than happy to blame the horse when alot of times it's the other way around. I'm not rich or handy enough to afford or utilize a high dollar ranch horse so I just muddle by with ones I raised myself. You'll never know how your idea will work unless you try it for sure.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Most cowboys would rather die than admit they bought a horse they can't make work-most rodeo cowboys on the other hand are more than happy to blame the horse when alot of times it's the other way around. I'm not rich or handy enough to afford or utilize a high dollar ranch horse so I just muddle by with ones I raised myself. You'll never know how your idea will work unless you try it for sure.
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NR, I'm inclined to agree with what you said about cowboys not wanting to admit a horse they bought might not work. Between their pride, their skills with a horse (combined with the time available to spend with the horse), and not having a whole heck of a lot of quit in them, they'll stick with a horse and usually make it work. The problems I've seen with unhappy buyers, though, aren't typically with working cowboys. It's with weekend recreational riders (whether they be weekend ropers, trail riders, semi-retirees, etc.). It is these folks, whose horsemanship skills and experience, physical abilities, and time available to spend with their horses are insufficient for the realities of horse ownership, that tend to become problem buyers.

There was a fairly interesting quote in a recent Western Horseman article (geez, I've referred to Western Horseman twice in this discussion... I promise I won't refer to them a third time... either that, or I'll hit them up for a commission....) on the subject of ranch horse sales. The article, 13 Rules for Ranch Horse Buyers, offers tips for folks (presumably the type of rider I described above) that are considering purchasing a ranch gelding as a recreational horse. Here is rule number five:

5. WHAT DO THEY MEAN BY THE TERM "RANCH GELDING"?
Get more specific details, because some talented, experienced, cow-smart ranch geldings act like PRCA broncs on cool mornings. Be realistic. Are you looking for an athlete or a babysitter?
"People say they want a horse with ranch horse skills, but they couldn't even get their saddle on some of the best ranch horses that I've known," Smith says. "Really, most people are wanting a good, safe, gentle horse that has some experience going over rough country, crossing creeks, standing quiet to be saddled, and doing things that a good ol' ranch horse will do."
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Anyway, anybody interested can read the whole article at http://westernhorseman.com/index.php/articles/ranchlands-mainmenu-74/article/541.html

Back to the point, and to the market need (which, I think, is very valid... it's the successful, profitable implementation of a strategy to meet that need within an auction system that I'm unclear about) that Flying S initially brought forward: in order for any guarantee to be even possible, a seller needs to start with learning about what the buyer really wants, really needs, and is really equipped to handle. Which is tough to do at an auction (even if you can get the buyers to show up two days early to try out horses). It's tough to do in private treaty sales where you have an opportunity to visit in greater detail with the potential buyer, schedule test rides, etc. In an auction setting where you might have 500 or 1,000 to talk to about your horses? Tough to do in two or three days.
 
A girl brought Ty a big TB gelding to 'buck out' so she could ride him. Supposedly he'd been pretty quiet but he'd tried bucking once and got to liking it. we ground worked him lots but every saddling he'd come unglued-got to throwing himself when he couldn't get jr. off. I just phoned and said I'd take him into the canner sale for her. I think he was too counterfeit to make a decent bronc. I get lots of calls for that mythical $800 bombproof kids horse haven't run into alot of those.
 
How about a sale format where the seller states: I'm telling you the horse is this, this and this. You take him home for 30 days and make sure you ride him. If you aren't satisfied that I represented the horse reasonably well, then we'll work out a return or swap. After that time, no more guarantee.

I just don't see any reasonable person doing a lifetime guarantee on an animal. Environment, handling and time will simply change a horse. Come to think of it, I would accept a guarantee that "This horse is bound to cause you a problem." I could guarantee that all day long on some that I've ridden. :wink:

HP
 
High Plains said:
How about a sale format where the seller states: I'm telling you the horse is this, this and this. You take him home for 30 days and make sure you ride him. If you aren't satisfied that I represented the horse reasonably well, then we'll work out a return or swap. After that time, no more guarantee.

I just don't see any reasonable person doing a lifetime guarantee on an animal. Environment, handling and time will simply change a horse. Come to think of it, I would accept a guarantee that "This horse is bound to cause you a problem." I could guarantee that all day long on some that I've ridden. :wink:

HP
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i'd be content with 30 days as a buyer or a seller. lifetime on the other hand, :roll:
 
Let me rephrase "lifetime" to solid guarantees. Does that help anyone get by the terminalogy. I was trying to drive home the point of a solid well represented sale that would cater to customer satisfaction. If you want I will go in and edit the post so that you don't even see the word lifetime if it will make you feel better. Some of you people can sure get narrow minded, broaden your minds a little. Give a person an idea or two instead of putting them on the choping block. Dog gone are you all always so negative.
 
I like the definition of a (Ranch Gelding) that sums up my horse he's really fresh most mornings and the cool windy ones you best be ready when you step aboard. He cost $2300 I think, He's a pretty good horse other than he's real rammy all the time it takes 10 miles before he starts getting tired and thats if you ride him hard. We bought a kid broke black QH mare and she cost $2500 kid horses are normally duds as far as I'm concerned this mare is bred to run and a friend bought her to calf rope off of but she can't run fast enough to scatter her own poop.

You have less money in a Broke 5 year old gelding paying $2500 than raiseing one from conception.Raiseing them you have no garantees of a useable horse.I'm no bronc stomper so I don't even try to pretend.
 
flyingS said:
Let me rephrase "lifetime" to solid guarantees. Does that help anyone get by the terminalogy. I was trying to drive home the point of a solid well represented sale that would cater to customer satisfaction. If you want I will go in and edit the post so that you don't even see the word lifetime if it will make you feel better. Some of you people can sure get narrow minded, broaden your minds a little. Give a person an idea or two instead of putting them on the choping block. Dog gone are you all always so negative.
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i'm not going any further on this topic....there is no point. i may end up saying something that would hurt someone's feelings and we wouldn't want that.
 
Denny said:
I like the definition of a (Ranch Gelding) that sums up my horse he's really fresh most mornings and the cool windy ones you best be ready when you step aboard. He cost $2300 I think, He's a pretty good horse other than he's real rammy all the time it takes 10 miles before he starts getting tired and thats if you ride him hard. We bought a kid broke black QH mare and she cost $2500 kid horses are normally duds as far as I'm concerned this mare is bred to run and a friend bought her to calf rope off of but she can't run fast enough to scatter her own poop.

You have less money in a Broke 5 year old gelding paying $2500 than raiseing one from conception.Raiseing them you have no garantees of a useable horse.I'm no bronc stomper so I don't even try to pretend.
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In this area the need for the kind of horse you are describing is getting less and less. When a person had the need of long circle horses that would lope or trot 40 miles in a day and use any excuse to buck, transportation was limited.
Most people now will load into a trailer and haul to the far side of where they want to go and then wonder why their perfect ranch horse won't settle down until they are nearly home.
I have been fortunate enough to ride a lot of good horses when I was younger. The few that we sold through a sale were represented for exactly what they were. The last few years my 2 old faithfuls and a few worthless colts were transformed into bear bait. It was more cost friendly than hauling them to a sale.
 
Back in the late 1960's, a local boy joined the army. He had a young green-broke horse at the time, and my uncle bought the horse for $160. He told the boy going to the army that when he got back home in a couple years, he could buy the horse back for the same $160. The young man got home from the army but didn't need the horse as he left to live in Texas for several years. Meanwhile back at the ranch, the horse turned into a nice gentle using horse. Probably ten years went by, and the value of horses increased substantially. Weigh-up horses were bringing close to a thousand dollars, and gentle broke horses sold for considerably more. All of a sudden this man decided he wanted his horse back, for the $160 originally agreed upon. My uncle, being an honorable guy, sold the horse back. It wasn't quite the way it was supposed to be, but human nature is human nature. I was at an impressionable age and did sit up and take notice. All through the years I've tried to represent horses or anything else as honestly as possible, but I sure try not to get into situations that might come back to bite me on down the road.

One time I was dealing on a nice roan mare from an older gentleman. He wanted to sell her to me quite cheap, but he wanted her first colt. Even a deal such as this it's best to stay away from. I ended up buying the mare for his "cheap" price, but got out of any further obligation. I only owned the mare for about a week anyway. :wink:
 

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