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kosmo kid on Loos Tales.

elawpo
like i said im not trying to get anybody fired up and the points i make go far beyond ranching. The whole education system in a whole and the views of people that its essential to get an education. Im not in ranching country, more farmland. To tell you the truth about the ranching side of the business, i have the majority of the assets in it. My old man does next to nothing, he helps work cows and calves here and there but from the financial plans to the cashflow statements to the marketing to every business side of the deal, he leaves in my hands. Its kind of my own little business and i do the majority of the farmwork. My cows were not handed to me, i worked my rear end off throughout high school to "get ahead." Your comment about kids feeling like being a hired hand for ten years. I have to say that my dad has given me an opportunity to make some of the major decisions, and me faceing consequences, and thats probably the best education someone could receive.
 
I'm sorry you chose to jump out of college. Just from reading your rant, I think a college education would do you some good. However, when one has a closed mind (such as yours regarding college education), then it is very difficult to have a learning atmosphere. And your profs were probably glad to see you go with an atitude like that. I would strongly urge you to reconsider....I am an An Sci grad and I learned a heap more in college then what the An Sci profs taught. In fact, my four college years have been the best of my 41.5 years!
 
I've got to side with tlakota a little bit here.

Education is fine. Most careers require at least a four year degree, but in ranching there is very little that can not be learned by experience or from others that you respect. If you need to learn something more specialized, there are ways to do it without a college degree. Even with a degree, a rancher must still use gut instinct and his experience to survive.

I know guys who have a college degree. Are they more successful than those of us who don't? I haven't seen it, unless they are working for an Ag Company of some sort where it is required.

I am not suggesting, nor is tlakota, that there is no benefit from attending college. It can be valuable in making a young person a more rounded person. The contacts and friends made can be important. I agree with him that it isn't for everyone and in the end, success will be measured by how sharp the pencil is.

tlakota also makes sense to me in suggesting that schools teach very little practical knowledge like money management. Wouldn't things like this be good for every high school student to know?
 
Judith said:
That worked perfectly thanks!
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Sure....and then you must have broke it, because I can't get a peep out of it! :twisted: I'm sure it must have been a very good interview, maybe there's a transcript out there? Anyway, good job of parenting Mr. and Mrs. Soapweed!
 
JF Ranch said:
I've got to side with tlakota a little bit here.

Education is fine. Most careers require at least a four year degree, but in ranching there is very little that can not be learned by experience or from others that you respect. If you need to learn something more specialized, there are ways to do it without a college degree. Even with a degree, a rancher must still use gut instinct and his experience to survive.

I know guys who have a college degree. Are they more successful than those of us who don't? I haven't seen it, unless they are working for an Ag Company of some sort where it is required.

I am not suggesting, nor is tlakota, that there is no benefit from attending college. It can be valuable in making a young person a more rounded person. The contacts and friends made can be important. I agree with him that it isn't for everyone and in the end, success will be measured by how sharp the pencil is.

tlakota also makes sense to me in suggesting that schools teach very little practical knowledge like money management. Wouldn't things like this be good for every high school student to know?
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JF, I think you're pretty much right on track. Something that I have noticed with some college students and graduates is that they lose a sense of good time management skills, and are also somewhat likely to tackle problems from an angle that maybe is a little shaky when it comes to common sense. No, this is not always the case, but I've seen it often enough...and even in myself for a time after having attended a couple different colleges back in the early/mid 80s. You've got to be able to do the grunt work when necessary, and do it efficiently. And now the grunt work is my specialty...but I like it....keeps us young! :D :D
 
tlakota, don't let them confuse you. You don't need to spend 40K to "learn" . Information is available on any subject and there are people in your area that are better than anyone when it comes to raising beef there. You've got it pretty well figured out it sounds to me. A couple points of advice that I wish I would have learned earlier would be to bust your tail and work harder than anyone else in the business. Secondly, spend less than you make. Those two things sound simple but they're not.
 
tlakota: I agree with what you're saying. Stick to your guns. You've already got an open mind so keep that. Also give thanks to your Dad for letting you become your own man, and not just a hired man that can't think for himself. I think that the biggest problem with colleges, etc. is that you can only learn as much as the teacher knows. Talking agriculture here. Things can change a lot in a hurry and if your prof isn't up to speed, what are you really learning. I took a Holistic Management course. Two long time provincial agriculture people, from my area also took the course. The one person said that she learnt more in that 6 day course than she had learnt in 7 years of college. And a lot of thousands of dollars. The other one agreed too and thought that agribusiness was trying to make things too complicated. I have a son who is taking a 2 year agrifinance course in Old"s college this fall. He is planning on coming back to ranch. He's seen the changes to our grass since we took the course. I also have to give him credit as he has friends working in the oilpatch for 30 plus dollars an hour.After all is said and done I think that ranching can equal or better the oilpatch but you have too keep an open mind and not be afraid to learn something new (or old).
 
it feels much better to not feel cornered...i dont remember who mentioned it but when people try to discourage me, it just makes me want to try even harder...The way i look at it, farming and ranching has a very bright future for my generation. Not many people are wanting to do the work. I want to throw one final point out there. There is a good portion of prof. at the college that i went to, that were business failures. Many of them had businesses that failed and went on to be a proffessor. Id rather learn from everybody on ranchers.net!
 
One of my favorite profs was a failure, too. He bought cows and land in the Fall of 1973. I don't expect you to be able to understand my point, tlakota, but not every failure is a failure. Perhaps they just chose a different path to go.


Badlands
 
tlakota said:
it feels much better to not feel cornered...i dont remember who mentioned it but when people try to discourage me, it just makes me want to try even harder...The way i look at it, farming and ranching has a very bright future for my generation. Not many people are wanting to do the work. I want to throw one final point out there. There is a good portion of prof. at the college that i went to, that were business failures. Many of them had businesses that failed and went on to be a proffessor. Id rather learn from everybody on ranchers.net!
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My old saying is "Those who can Do and those who can't Teach"

The problem with an ag college is they have the tax payers check book to fall back on.

I spent one year in a Vo-Tech college and I did learn how to paint there but drinking beer was what most learned.

I hated school and never went back after the first year and I would'nt change a thing.My Mom is a Teacher and she thinks Everyone should go to college.I just ask her who's going to do the work if we all become paper shuffler's.

I don't even go to these field days the college puts on the way I figure it I'm not going to invest thousands of dollars in cross fenceing and watering systems just to lose a lease the next year so why waste my and their time.

I've got a Degree from the School of Hard Knock's and that's good enough for me..

The best tool anyone can own is a pencil figure out a plan and if it does'nt work on paper don't do it.Know your cost's and your potential income from each unit be it a bale of hay a cow or grain sales.I always figure high on cost and low on income that way if the product generates more income great but if it does'nt your not totally shocked.
 
i understand you badlands...and im open to your points...im sure it had something to do with the interest rates sky rocketing not too long after that...land prices were very high around here and then they dropped big time cuz interest rates were going up...many farmers went broke around here...i hope land prices let off here sometime soon so it gives a young guy a chance at some
 
I am going to agree 100% with tlakota. There are so many ways to learn and some of the best ways are free. In this day and age if you really want to learn something you can get online and most likely find it. And you can get the info from someone who has done it, not just read about it.
 
I went to college and I'm not a success but I have been ranching for 25 years since I graduated. Are all four of my kids going to go the college route-who knows but I consider my years there time well spent. There is alot more free information avail;able now than there was 25 years ago but sometimes free info is worthy exactly what you pay for it. The deal with my parents was I had to go to college or learn a trade before I came home to take over-it doesn't hurt to have a fallback position in todays economy either. My contacts made in colege have opened some doors in the cattle business over the years also.
 
For the most part I am going to agree with Badlands with a bit of an qualifier in that colleg isn't for everyone.. Yeah, lots of jobs you can do with out ever geting a college education but a lot of opportunitis are opened by putting in the ground work. I think of folks like my brother who just wanted to do some basic business stuff that he could probably have done anywhere but by going to college, opening himself to different stuff, he was able to graduate with a degree in something that would allow him to go into the corporate world OR the ability to go to medical school so he went to medical school and is now a doctor. It is not so much the fact that you need to college to be a doctor but if he had just not kept himself openminded to the experiences in college he would never have discovered it was somethin he loved... Do you need college for evey little thing in the world? Nope, for some jobs it is probably overrated. I for one am happy I went, it helped me figure out, along with some real world exp, what I wanted and didn't want to do..

ARNR 101 and 102 were perhaps the most boring classes ever invented and this is from a person with almost zero ag background and it only got worse when it involved an area I knew nothign about. But once you got past those classes you actually might have found some stuff to be interesting.. I know I would not be doing what I am doing today if it wasn't for going to MSU... That being said, I also know lots of folks with family in the business that never went so school and are doing just fine, so as always, to each their own.
 
a thing i have always thought about it is act scores...i would like to do a study someday or something about what range of act scores has the most business men and richest people...i personally believe that kids with scores in the middle range from maybe 22-30 will have the most success. They are more likely they will be working for themselves then kids with the extremely high scores and the lower scores. We all know the most successful people in this world didnt get to where they are, by working their butt off for someone else. So i give credit to any young kid or college graduate that takes a risk. Whether its from getting a small business going, investing in real estate or buying cows or anything else. It all takes balls.
 
Quite the thread here.

Some can learn by reading and being lectured. Some can learn by doing.

When you quit learning, you may as well get in a hole and let them cover you with dirt.

Education is education and can come in many forms.

At some point, tlakota might want to take some college courses.

Right now, if it isn't interesting for him, he might as well not be there.

We all change wit time, in our thoughts and how we do things and ways to go about doing them. When I was younger, I hated asparagus, now I like it.

When I was 18 my dad was one of the dumbest people I had ever met. By the time I was 21 I had really made him smart. :wink:

We all learn in different ways, and that is good, just as long as we learn.

And learning something new, just for the sake of learning, isn't a bad thing.

I think everyone who has posted on here is right, in their own way.


Tlakota, get a copy to Stockmans Grass Farmers Journal. The book Profit Rich Ranching, should be read by every person who wants to own their own business. Lots of good ideads and helped me to think outside the box.

http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/index.html

JMHO :-)
 
Great post JB. Must say there are times when I wish I had gone to college/university, and others when I think I've done pretty darn good getting to where I'm at. Most of my skill or knowledge has come from learning the hard way when I was tlakota's age, or in recent years, keeping my ears open and my mouth shut when wiser folks were around and willing to help. This includes my family, neighbours and alot of folks in the industry, some of which are posters on this forum. I say what works for others may not work for you, which is the same underlying message we find when some of us argue Angus vs Charolais, or grass-fed vs. grain-fed. :wink:
 
kolanuraven said:
Be careful....Soapy gets all funky when you identify him outloud here on Ranchers!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Owen Wister, who wrote "THE VIRGINIAN" made famous the quote, "When you call me that, smile."

At least Big Muddy smiled when he called me that. :-) :wink:
 
This is quite an interesting thread that I have not had time to read until now. Education is important, but there are many ways to acquire it. I view formal education in much the same way that I regard Life in general, "all things in moderation." :wink:

My own formal education stopped after one year of college. I recall sitting in a college classroom on a nice spring day. My thought at the time was, "Here I am, nineteen years old, in the prime of my physical condition, wasting another perfectly beautiful day sitting at a desk." :roll:

The next year I chose to start ranching by working hard on those beautiful days; making money instead of spending it. I have never regretted that decision. Even several years after I quit college, my advice to friends who were graduating from high school, was for them to stay out a year between high school and college, get a job, and experience the real world. Then if they decided to further their education, make the most of it and study hard. Too many high school seniors go to college the next year, out of habit, but really have no idea of their future goals. It becomes "party time" instead of actually learning anything of real value. Of course, a piece of paper is handed out for a souvenir at the end of the experience, as a lasting momento, that may or may not ever be of any further value.

One of the most important skills of life is to learn to read, and to read every chance you get. There is always something to be learned with this habit. If a person knows how to read and comprehend, the whole world is at your fingertips. The early immigrants to America from across the wide blue water all realized the advantage to this process. They complied, and because of this America became all the greater. The immigrants of today don't have this overwhelming zest for becoming better people while at the same time making America a better place. They all want to keep their own birth country identities, retain their own languages and customs, but still gain all the benefits of American society. The great United States, if it doesn't completely fall from this apathetic attitude, will at the very least crumble and deteriorate on her foundation.

Back to education, it is a wonderful concept if it doesn't get top-heavy. Probably a four-year college degree has its advantages. Any more "piled higher and deeper" credentials attached to one's name has the potential of becoming more of a detriment to society rather than an asset. For one thing, if these highly educated souls get off on the wrong track, they have the "power" to screw up a lot of students with their misguided thought process. A majority of college professors are very liberal and bureaucratic in their thinking, with very little common sense. This leads to big problems on down the road.

Education is very important, in moderation. Just be aware that like anything else in life taken to excess, too much education can be just as detrimental as too little. :wink: :-)
 

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