kolanuraven
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I Luv Herfrds said:
Won't matter if he has any intentions or not....it's his and he should/would get access to it is the way a judge would see it.
Land Update
- Thread starter I Luv Herfrds
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Won't matter if he has any intentions or not....it's his and he should/would get access to it is the way a judge would see it.
Faster horses
Well-known member
Ranch land that is for sale always seem to high at the time, but you better get it bought while you can, especially if it borders you or is surrounded by you. I can almost guarantee you that five years (or less) from now you will be glad you bought it.
Remember, it is an INVESTMENT, not a cost. You don't need to pay for it in one year, if it will be difficult for you. And look at what it will add to your place; I'm sure it will make your place more valuable.
I too, don't think $300 an acre sounds too out of line, especially when it is surrounded by your land. Even here grassland has been bringing $300/acre or more.
What if you didn't have the OPTION to buy it; what if he just sold it to
someone else? How would you feel then? He could, you know, sell it to someone else. Some people just want to own some land in Montana. We have a couple of 10 acre pieces like that and the owners (In California) won't sell it to us. They get nothing out of it and one 10 acre parcel is next to the road so they have access. It has not been a problem, but we'd sure like to get those pieces bought so that someday there is NOT a problem. One family, in Washington was very obliging and they quit paying the taxes so we could get their land for back taxes.
And easement issues can cause all kinds of problems. I know a case in Wyoming that sounded ridiculous because the folks wanting the easement had access to it on a different side, but they wanted to go in and out through this old ranchers. place. They pushed it and pushed it in court and it went on for years. Just about killed the old rancher. I don't know who won in the end, but I know it was a terrible thing to go through.There were lots of articles in the paper about it, as it was a HOT topic.
My vote is to get it bought. I think it is the very best option. Things will work out.
Hope this helps!
Remember, it is an INVESTMENT, not a cost. You don't need to pay for it in one year, if it will be difficult for you. And look at what it will add to your place; I'm sure it will make your place more valuable.
I too, don't think $300 an acre sounds too out of line, especially when it is surrounded by your land. Even here grassland has been bringing $300/acre or more.
What if you didn't have the OPTION to buy it; what if he just sold it to
someone else? How would you feel then? He could, you know, sell it to someone else. Some people just want to own some land in Montana. We have a couple of 10 acre pieces like that and the owners (In California) won't sell it to us. They get nothing out of it and one 10 acre parcel is next to the road so they have access. It has not been a problem, but we'd sure like to get those pieces bought so that someday there is NOT a problem. One family, in Washington was very obliging and they quit paying the taxes so we could get their land for back taxes.
And easement issues can cause all kinds of problems. I know a case in Wyoming that sounded ridiculous because the folks wanting the easement had access to it on a different side, but they wanted to go in and out through this old ranchers. place. They pushed it and pushed it in court and it went on for years. Just about killed the old rancher. I don't know who won in the end, but I know it was a terrible thing to go through.There were lots of articles in the paper about it, as it was a HOT topic.
My vote is to get it bought. I think it is the very best option. Things will work out.
Hope this helps!
hillsdown
Well-known member
ILH I know that is a big chunk of change for any operation that is trying to remain debt free, but I agree with everyone that said try your best to scoop it up. You will regret it later especially because it is entwined with your property already.
As far the easement did you ask him what his intentions are ?
Our home quarter has an acreage off of it and we wanted to buy it back because it has been abandoned and neglected. It is a huge eye sore, but the guy wants 180 thousand for 7 acres and a dilapidated barn. My biggest fear is that some hoity toity from the city will buy it and put up a mansion and then b@tch when we spread manure on our hay land that surrounds the acreage. 180 thous. is not feasible for us at this time, but if it was 12000 I would do my best to make it work..
Good luck and I hope you get it.
As far the easement did you ask him what his intentions are ?
Our home quarter has an acreage off of it and we wanted to buy it back because it has been abandoned and neglected. It is a huge eye sore, but the guy wants 180 thousand for 7 acres and a dilapidated barn. My biggest fear is that some hoity toity from the city will buy it and put up a mansion and then b@tch when we spread manure on our hay land that surrounds the acreage. 180 thous. is not feasible for us at this time, but if it was 12000 I would do my best to make it work..
Good luck and I hope you get it.
bverellen
Well-known member
Denny said:
Good advice.
bart.
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Frank in West Dakota
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Stick to your guns I Luv Herefords.
Who cares if others would just "write the check".
You pay him $300, then John Doe (or worse, relatives) next to ya wants the same 'cause he has 2 quarters to sell. Can you afford that? Doesn't matter what the appraisal's at, if you can't afford to own it, don't buy it. That's why this country's in the shape it's in!
I'm sure your area's no different than here, returns less than $30 gross income/acre. Not a lot of money to be dealin' with.
:???:
Who cares if others would just "write the check".
You pay him $300, then John Doe (or worse, relatives) next to ya wants the same 'cause he has 2 quarters to sell. Can you afford that? Doesn't matter what the appraisal's at, if you can't afford to own it, don't buy it. That's why this country's in the shape it's in!
I'm sure your area's no different than here, returns less than $30 gross income/acre. Not a lot of money to be dealin' with.
:???:
Soapweed
Well-known member
There were many ranches in this area that went broke in the 1980's who had paid a lot less than $300 per acre. A lot of that $300 per acre land was all of a sudden worth about $65. One long-time established outfit went broke on $38 per acre land, that had never been paid off. Another 7,000 acre ranch was purchased for $160 per acre in the late 1970's. Five or six years later, it sold for $57.50 per acre.
A couple sayings come to mind:
"It ain't over 'til it's over."
"Many a slip between the cup and the lip."
A couple sayings come to mind:
"It ain't over 'til it's over."
"Many a slip between the cup and the lip."
burnt
Well-known member
Soapweed said:
That would be "many a slip twixt the cup and the lip" :wink:
nortexsook
Well-known member
I'm not saying something is or isn't worth $x per acre, but I am saying if your not careful your going to end up with an easement across your property so this guy can get to his property or the person he sells it to can, so what is it worth to not have the easement?
burnt
Well-known member
nortexsook said:
This would be my concern also. I know it sounds like "selling insurance", but what kind of costs (financial, psychological . . .) could you be faced with in the future if you end up with some litigious something or 'nuther in the middle of your holdings? I am sure you have thought of that already.
All that being said, it can be a big challenge to come up with the money or financing. It;s not hard to sit here and be armchair quarterbacks for someone else. Only ILH and her family know what kind of strain this situation puts on them.
I wish you all the best and a good outcome in your dealings.
It would be interesting to know how taxation systems in various states compare and also how they influence land prices. SD is in process of taxing land based on production instead of just on selling price. It's more complicated than that, and change doesn't come without difficulties in SD!!!.
Many of the states mentioned as having the extremely high land prices have high populations and/or are considered 'scenic' and 'playground' locations. Contrasted with some regions in less populous states having mostly grazing and/or crop based jobs. There is considerable difference between productivity, precipitation, even climate from western to eastern SD. Farm land brings quite a bit more than grazing land, which may be around $350.A in western SD between the river and the Black Hills, much higher in the 'scenic' Black Hills. Still can't pay for it running cattle on it, tho. Just have to consider investment/betting on inflation and ability to borrow the money if one doesn't have a money tree handy!!!!
mrj
Many of the states mentioned as having the extremely high land prices have high populations and/or are considered 'scenic' and 'playground' locations. Contrasted with some regions in less populous states having mostly grazing and/or crop based jobs. There is considerable difference between productivity, precipitation, even climate from western to eastern SD. Farm land brings quite a bit more than grazing land, which may be around $350.A in western SD between the river and the Black Hills, much higher in the 'scenic' Black Hills. Still can't pay for it running cattle on it, tho. Just have to consider investment/betting on inflation and ability to borrow the money if one doesn't have a money tree handy!!!!
mrj
I Luv Herfrds
Well-known member
nortex I called our lawyer and got some great advise.
1. For this area with land prices dropping best to wait.
2. Make HIM pay for the appraisal instead of us.
3. We can grant a "Right of Way", but we can have it spelled out that HE maintains the road to reach his land.
4. He can take us to court for an "Easement" which is different from a Right of Way. But if we grant the ROW, the Judge can see that we are willing to allow him access to his land.
Denny we are going to pay off in Febuary the $200,000.00 land debt. There's not even a 100 acres there.
For $12,000 I could go buy that new hydraulic post pounder we really need. Get a rock picker that we also need. A newer round baler.
Both sides are stepping back and are going to let it rest for now. I think he is getting some pressure from somewhere about trying to get max dollar for it.
1. For this area with land prices dropping best to wait.
2. Make HIM pay for the appraisal instead of us.
3. We can grant a "Right of Way", but we can have it spelled out that HE maintains the road to reach his land.
4. He can take us to court for an "Easement" which is different from a Right of Way. But if we grant the ROW, the Judge can see that we are willing to allow him access to his land.
Denny we are going to pay off in Febuary the $200,000.00 land debt. There's not even a 100 acres there.
For $12,000 I could go buy that new hydraulic post pounder we really need. Get a rock picker that we also need. A newer round baler.
Both sides are stepping back and are going to let it rest for now. I think he is getting some pressure from somewhere about trying to get max dollar for it.
Cowpuncher
Well-known member
We sold our ranch last year (for $235.00 per acre).
When we bought it, it was several thousand acres. We had 6 unowned parcels inside of the ranch. By the time we sold it 15 years later, the only remaining parcel was a state section and they are tough to deal with. It was actually much cheaper to rent than own.
Because the ranch was old, there were dozens of easments on it for everything from pipeline to utilities. We never had a problem with any of that. I talked to each owners and told them I was willing to buy them out. Mostly, we bought from heirs after the owners died.
The interest on debt runs 6 or 7 percent. Land appreciates about the same rate historically. The original ranch was acquired for about dollar and acre and sold in the 40s for $7. So, if you had to pay $1,000 a year in interest, the land would only have to generate $12-15 hundred to pay for itself.
Most of the successful ranchers I know make judicious use of debt. Those that don't are usually old goats like me that don't want to get any bigger.
When we bought it, it was several thousand acres. We had 6 unowned parcels inside of the ranch. By the time we sold it 15 years later, the only remaining parcel was a state section and they are tough to deal with. It was actually much cheaper to rent than own.
Because the ranch was old, there were dozens of easments on it for everything from pipeline to utilities. We never had a problem with any of that. I talked to each owners and told them I was willing to buy them out. Mostly, we bought from heirs after the owners died.
The interest on debt runs 6 or 7 percent. Land appreciates about the same rate historically. The original ranch was acquired for about dollar and acre and sold in the 40s for $7. So, if you had to pay $1,000 a year in interest, the land would only have to generate $12-15 hundred to pay for itself.
Most of the successful ranchers I know make judicious use of debt. Those that don't are usually old goats like me that don't want to get any bigger.
Doug Thorson
Well-known member
What would it cost you if he decided to put up a 2 wire fence and haul water to a few cows with Trich or BVD or put a Longhorn bull with them? $12,000 would seem mighty cheap.
I decided long ago there were a couple patches of ground that if they were for sale I would write the check and explain it to the banker later. Either I own it or my place is for sale also!
I decided long ago there were a couple patches of ground that if they were for sale I would write the check and explain it to the banker later. Either I own it or my place is for sale also!
Horseless
Well-known member
If your area is anything like ours, with those additional 40 acres you could expand your herd by just over 1 pair. It will never pay, but it should increase the value of your place as a whole. If he is going to be a real head ache, probably should some how buy it. Land right in your backyard doesn't always get offered to you. I hope you have an off the farm job.
PATB
Well-known member
What is it worth not to have some Yahoo on the forty acres?
Richard Doolittle
Well-known member
ILH, you know what you can afford to pay and you know what the property is worth to you. An isolated 40 with no improved access, no power, and no water is not worth much.
Of course there are fools born every day and someone could step in and buy it for whatever reason that will make no sense to most people. People are trying to develop land around here that no one ever thought was realistic or feasible.
Of course there are fools born every day and someone could step in and buy it for whatever reason that will make no sense to most people. People are trying to develop land around here that no one ever thought was realistic or feasible.
In this area if they want an easement they will have to pay you for any loss you suffer (possibly losing the productivity of a few acres in route) and they will have to make any improvements needed to make access without harming your property. (a ditched and graveled road can be very costly)
I paid $3,000.00 per acre for the farm joining me on the south when it appraised for $1,500.00 but it gave me access to the next road south and that was worth quite a bit to me. The land owners west and southwest of me then tried to sell to me for $3,000.00 per acre as well and they are still waiting and I doubt they will get that much as everything around here is for sale with no buyers - - - -I offered $1,500.00 but they feel they are "entitled " to as much as what I paid for the other as the appraisers have assured them that sale is of like kind and thus their property is worth it. So much for "professional appraisers".
I paid more as I needed the south road. I will not gain enough from the other property to justify more than about $600.00 per acre but I am willing to pay $1,500.00 to put it under my control.
I paid $3,000.00 per acre for the farm joining me on the south when it appraised for $1,500.00 but it gave me access to the next road south and that was worth quite a bit to me. The land owners west and southwest of me then tried to sell to me for $3,000.00 per acre as well and they are still waiting and I doubt they will get that much as everything around here is for sale with no buyers - - - -I offered $1,500.00 but they feel they are "entitled " to as much as what I paid for the other as the appraisers have assured them that sale is of like kind and thus their property is worth it. So much for "professional appraisers".
I paid more as I needed the south road. I will not gain enough from the other property to justify more than about $600.00 per acre but I am willing to pay $1,500.00 to put it under my control.
Blkbuckaroo
Well-known member
Hope it all turns out for the best 8)
Hereford76
Well-known member
is the owner of the 40 you surround a relative? how did it get surrounded in the first place?
i think most of these responses are just saying that it would worthwhile to purchase it just to avoid the unkown future problems that could arise.
i also don't think some realize that in our area it takes anywhere from 30 to 100 acres to support an AUM.
also - someone said if you could hay the forty acres to feed your herd - that one made me laugh... i'm sure its dryland rangeland right - so it probably wouldn't yield enough hay to winter your herd of gophers down there.
i hope it all works out - i do know that we should have bought some grassland closeby about 10 years ago that sold for $350/acre - couldn't have paid for it and cows at the same time but the land is worth probably close to twice that now.
good luck - maybe after you get your current land debt taken care of you can make a deal with him
i think most of these responses are just saying that it would worthwhile to purchase it just to avoid the unkown future problems that could arise.
i also don't think some realize that in our area it takes anywhere from 30 to 100 acres to support an AUM.
also - someone said if you could hay the forty acres to feed your herd - that one made me laugh... i'm sure its dryland rangeland right - so it probably wouldn't yield enough hay to winter your herd of gophers down there.
i hope it all works out - i do know that we should have bought some grassland closeby about 10 years ago that sold for $350/acre - couldn't have paid for it and cows at the same time but the land is worth probably close to twice that now.
good luck - maybe after you get your current land debt taken care of you can make a deal with him