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Learning from Taiwan

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Sandhusker

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If the US would like to be viewed as the world's choice for quality beef (and what businessman would NOT like his product viewed as the standard to beat), wouldn't it be a no-brainer that we would have to maintain the highest standards in the world? I would think that anybody in the cattle/beef businesses would demand that the USDA's efforts be directed towards a goal of having the US being viewed by the world as the ultimate in quality. We are not the low cost or volume provider, quality is our trademark. Any actions to diminish or jeapardize this image should be fought tooth and nail by those in the industries. The USDA's Final Rule in regard to trade with Canada does have implications on our image and should be carefully considered.

Taiwan recently reopened their borders to US beef under the following requirements; They will take only animals younger than 30 months slaughtered in the US. All beef must come from animals from countries that are eligible to export to Taiwan. In addition, the following SRMs must be removed; brain, skull, eyes, trigeminal ganglia, spinal cord, most parts of the vertebral column, dorsal root ganglia, tonsils, and the distal ileum of the small intestines. Taiwan would also prefer product to from plants dedicated to younger cattle only, but will accept animals from plants registered under the BEV program.

Compare Taiwan's requirements with the USDA's requirements of Canadian trade. First of all, Taiwan is not accepting any product from Canada. Secondly, the Final Rule has no requirements on plant dedication. And shockingly, the USDA proposes the US accept a narrower definition of SRMs in cattle younger than 30 months. Basically, the standards they propose on product coming from a country with 4 indiginous cases of BSE is lower than what Taiwan demands from a country with a cattle population 10 times greater than Canada's, with only 1 imported case! Our standards would be lower that Taiwan's in three areas. Now, I ask you, is this proposal consistant with the goal of being viewed as the best in the world? Adding insult to injury, the USDA is fighting efforts to segregate and label Canadian beef!

How can any rancher or rancher organization support this? R-CALF is hollering "Whoa", but they're labeled by some as "fear mongering", "protectionist", and "out to get Canadians". Folks, is having the standard for quality a goal? If not, then you shouldn't have any problems with the Final Rule. If it is, ask youselves if the Final Rule is positive or negetive to meeting that goal. Can we honestly say we are the source for the best beef in the world when Taiwan and others have higher standards than we do?
 

Mike

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I can't believe you haven't been fired at yet for this post. You, you.......
instigator! :wink:

BEV - is that the program where all beef is source and age verified?
Beef Export Verification?
 

Maple Leaf Angus

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Mike said:
I can't believe you haven't been fired at yet for this post. You, you.......
instigator! :wink: ]

Mike, we just took into consideration who authored the post and gave it the appropriate response.
 

Bill

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standard for quality a goal?

So that's why Mexican feeder cattle are replacing Canadian????
 

Sandhusker

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I just got back from a graduation party where I discovered that pink lemonade and Canadian Mist is a pretty good mix, so please excuse me if I slur my typing.

I forgot to point out that my post was not a stab at the Canadians, but was a questioning of USDA policy. I don't know why Maple Leaf Angus would take exception, as my post in no way was a slam on Canadian producers. I've said time and time again that my beef (pardon the pun) is not against Canadians, but the relationship between the USDA and AMI.

I'd rather have a NCBA member or one of those who back the USDA regardless respond, as my post was anti- USDA and the NCBA seems to back them on this one. Agman, SH, MRJ? Anybody home?
 

Sandhusker

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Mike said:
I can't believe you haven't been fired at yet for this post. You, you.......
instigator! :wink:

BEV - is that the program where all beef is source and age verified?
Beef Export Verification?

Mike, you are correct on BEV.

I'm disappointed Agman hasn't bothered to give me his usual "you don't kow what you're talking about" speech concerning this post. I know he's read it.
 
A

Anonymous

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Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
I can't believe you haven't been fired at yet for this post. You, you.......
instigator! :wink:

BEV - is that the program where all beef is source and age verified?
Beef Export Verification?

Mike, you are correct on BEV.

I'm disappointed Agman hasn't bothered to give me his usual "you don't kow what you're talking about" speech concerning this post. I know he's read it.

Sandhusker-- It could be because much of what Agman and ~SH~ said would never happen has come to be :wink: The "we will make all decisions on sound science" has turned into "joke science". Under twenty months for Japan- but under thirty months for the US consumer....Big differences in what is considered SRM's for the Asians compared to what we import from Canada or remove for the US consumer-- country verifying cattle and segregating for the Asians when they refuse to do it for the US consumer...A complete new program (BEV) to guarantee our export customers the safe beef they want......USDA has said from day one that all decisions would be made on "sound science"--I'm waiting to hear USDA explain how their "sound science" varies from day to day and country to country.....Any Judge that eats beef is going to have to wonder who the he!! USDA is supposed to be protecting.......
 

HAY MAKER

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You men arent trying to say agman and sh are full of bool shiest in a polite way are you?.................good luck
 

Murgen

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They will take only animals younger than 30 months slaughtered in the US.

Would this not include live cattle imported from Canada, but killed in the US?


[/quote]Under twenty months for Japan- but under thirty months for the US consumer
Looks like Taiwan IS following the guidelines in the US and Canada!
In addition, the following SRMs must be removed; brain, skull, eyes, trigeminal ganglia, spinal cord, most parts of the vertebral column, dorsal root ganglia, tonsils, and the distal ileum of the small intestines.
I guess Taiwan is considering the US as a "Minimal risk country", if not, why would they require the removal of the above mentioned SRM's?

So, I guess to be considered safe all that Canada would need to do would be to meet these standards also. I predict that within three to six months you will see Taiwan buying boxed beef from Canada. These standards are easy enough to comply with and it would lower the costs to Taiwan if Canada would do it here within Canada and not export the cattle to the US to be killed. If R-calf gets their way, and closes the border to boxed beef, where will Taiwan get the less expensive boxed beef?
 

Sandhusker

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Murgen, "Would this not include live cattle imported from Canada, but killed in the US? "

"All beef must come from animals from countries that are eligible to export to Taiwan." It appears that until Taiwan begins taking Canadian product, the answer is "no".
 

Mike

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HAY MAKER said:
You men arent trying to say agman and sh are full of bool shiest in a polite way are you?.................good luck

Polite? Are THEY polite?
 

Bill

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Oldtimer said:
Sandhusker said:
Mike said:
I can't believe you haven't been fired at yet for this post. You, you.......
instigator! :wink:

BEV - is that the program where all beef is source and age verified?
Beef Export Verification?

Mike, you are correct on BEV.

I'm disappointed Agman hasn't bothered to give me his usual "you don't kow what you're talking about" speech concerning this post. I know he's read it.

Sandhusker-- It could be because much of what Agman and ~SH~ said would never happen has come to be :wink: The "we will make all decisions on sound science" has turned into "joke science". Under twenty months for Japan- but under thirty months for the US consumer....Big differences in what is considered SRM's for the Asians compared to what we import from Canada or remove for the US consumer-- country verifying cattle and segregating for the Asians when they refuse to do it for the US consumer...A complete new program (BEV) to guarantee our export customers the safe beef they want......USDA has said from day one that all decisions would be made on "sound science"--I'm waiting to hear USDA explain how their "sound science" varies from day to day and country to country.....Any Judge that eats beef is going to have to wonder who the he!! USDA is supposed to be protecting.......

"Big differences in what is considered SRM's for the Asians compared to what we import from Canada or remove for the US consumer"

What are the big differences?
 
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Anonymous

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Bill- The big difference is the USDA final rule only requires Canada to remove the tonsils and small intestines as SRM's from UTM cattle-- the Taiwanese are requiring that the US remove brain, skull, eyes, spinal cord, most parts of the spinal column, trigeminal ganglia, distal illeum of the small intestine, dorsal root ganglia and tonsils as SRM's....This is consistent with USDA's own TSE working groups recommendations which USDA has apparently ignored in making the rule for Canada......
 
A

Anonymous

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Sandhusker: "If the US would like to be viewed as the world's choice for quality beef (and what businessman would NOT like his product viewed as the standard to beat), wouldn't it be a no-brainer that we would have to maintain the highest standards in the world?"

Certainly!

That would mean that we cannot criticize Canada for not removing the same SRMs in cattle under 30 months of age that they are removing in cattle over 30 months when we have had BSE in the United States and we are removing the same SRMs as Canada in cattle under 30 months of age.

Talk about "the world's choice for quality beef" is cheap if you are criticizing another country for the same measures you are taking.

In other words, don't listen to hypocrites from R-CULT!

Pretty hard to be viewed as "the world's choice for quality beef" when you have stated that USDA, the U.S. beef inspection agency, "does not care about food safety" or that the large processors who process 80% of this beef "does not care about food safety but only cares about the money" or when you suggest that Canadian beef is contaminated when we have Canadian cattle in the United States.

What kind of backwards, hypocritical organization would do that?

R-CULT!

Secondly, you don't impose food safety regulations on another country that you are not willing to impose on yourself when you are in the exact same boat as they are. You can't say that Canadian beef is safe and our beef is unsafe when we are removing the exact same SRMs on cattle less than 30 months of age as Canada when both Canada and the U.S. have had BSE within their border.

To truly be seen as a leader in the area of food safety, you have to have honest leadership that will present the facts based on the best available science, not biased leadership that will lie simply to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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Back to the topic.... Do you want to have the highest standards in the world? Yes/no? Does Taiwan have higher standards than we do? Yes/NO?

SH, "Secondly, you don't impose food safety regulations on another country that you are not willing to impose on yourself when you are in the exact same boat as they are."

Judging by the fact that we signed the dotted line with Taiwan, It's apparent we are imposing higher regulations on ourselves already.
 
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Anonymous

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Sandhusker: "Do you want to have the highest standards in the world? Yes/no?"

That would depend on who is defining "highest standards in the world". R-CULT's idea of the highest standards in the world is simply "lip service".


Sandhusker: "Does Taiwan have higher standards than we do? Yes/NO?"

Once again, that would depend on who you asked.


I want the highest safety standards in the world that science will support.


Sandhusker: "Judging by the fact that we signed the dotted line with Taiwan, It's apparent we are imposing higher regulations on ourselves already."

I'll take that as your admission that we do not have the highest safety standards in the world based on your definition of the term.



~SH~
 

Sandhusker

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SH, "That would depend on who is defining "highest standards in the world". R-CULT's idea of the highest standards in the world is simply "lip service". "

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

SH, "Once again, that would depend on who you asked."

Let me ask you; Is Taiwan requireing a higher standard of the US than what the US is requiring of Canada? YES OR NO, SH!

SH, "I'll take that as your admission that we do not have the highest safety standards in the world based on your definition of the term. "

FINALLY, I GOT THRU! :roll: HOORAY! :D
 
A

Anonymous

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Sandhusker: "Let me ask you; Is Taiwan requireing a higher standard of the US than what the US is requiring of Canada? YES OR NO, SH!"

Depends on who is defining "higher standard"?

Are Taiwan's demands justified by the science the OIE bases their decisions on?

Unless that question is answered first, there is no way to define "higher standard".

The definition of "higher standard" is subjective.

If the only way to ship beef to Taiwan requires measures we can live with, we will accomodate those measures even if the science that the OIE has based their standards on will not support Taiwan's demands.

Knowing how your mind works, no, that is not comparable to 100% testing that sets an justified food safety presidence that is not supported by science and would add costs.

Shipping beef to Taiwan with SRM removal that is currently applicable to cattle over 30 months of age is like shipping hormone free beef to the EU.

We may accomodate another country's requests if they are cost effective even though we don't agree with them but we will not allow any other country to impose restrictions on us that are not justified or based on the best available science.

You are still searching for fools gold but what else can be expected from a fool.


~SH~
 
A

Anonymous

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Sandhusker,

If Canada removes the same SRM's as Taiwan has requested from the U.S, would you consider Canada's beef safe?

Of course you wouldn't because you want to keep the Canadian border closed to live cattle and you will use any excuse available to you.

Why don't you R-CULTers come clean and just admit that you don't want Canadian live cattle imports instead of painting yourselves into your hypocritical corners with your BSE double standards?



~SH~
 

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