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Lets do a little bull judging

M

MN Farm Girl

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Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
538
Location
Southwest MN
Hey guys we are in the process of choosing a black angus AI sire for our angus heifers. Dad and I have narrowed it down to two bulls that we both really like. I would like your imput, as to your thoughts on these two bulls. I attached the links that have the pictures of the bulls. And a more extended version of their EPD's.

SAV 8180 TRAVELER 004


Born: 01-01-2000
Birth Weight: 78 lbs. Yrlg Frame: 6.5
205 Days: 836 lbs. Mature Frame: 6.0
365 Days: N/A Scrotal: 43.0 cm.
Mature: 2570 lbs.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1064&lang=EN

S A V FINAL ANSWER 0035

Born: 02-22-2000
Birth Weight: 69 lbs. Yrlg Frame: 6.3
205 Days: 843 lbs. Mature Frame: 6.0
365 Days: 1360 lbs. Scrotal: 44.0 cm.
Mature: 2475 lbs.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1044&lang=EN
 
I'd use the 004 bull on mature cows and Final Answer on heifers. I understand that 004 will sire more true thickness and muscle, despite what you see in the photo for Final Answer (looks very muscular).

All of the 004 cattle that I've seen are really stamped with their sire's phenotype. Moderate framed, deep bodied and very thick. The bonus here is that they will have the growth and weight at a year of age that make the progeny appealing. As evidenced by the Yearling Weight EPD that he carries. I like his kind a lot. I have not seen any Final Answer calves but I'm sure they are very good as well.

Just my thoughts on it.

HP
 
I'm not a fan of either one- but between the two S A V FINAL ANSWER 0035 is the way to go ...8180 is not a heifer bull to me- with a 4 calving ease and 3.6 birthweight EPD....
 
alot of heifers in my area are bred to final answer,i havent seen his calves but they breed to him year after year
 
For heifers you sure want calving ease, regardless of how big they are the first one is always the hardest......and between the two bulls, Final Answer 0035 would be the one to use with a -0.8 BW, 11 CED, 11 CEM.
 
MN Farm Girl said:
Hey guys we are in the process of choosing a black angus AI sire for our angus heifers. Dad and I have narrowed it down to two bulls that we both really like. I would like your imput, as to your thoughts on these two bulls. I attached the links that have the pictures of the bulls. And a more extended version of their EPD's.

SAV 8180 TRAVELER 004


Born: 01-01-2000
Birth Weight: 78 lbs. Yrlg Frame: 6.5
205 Days: 836 lbs. Mature Frame: 6.0
365 Days: N/A Scrotal: 43.0 cm.
Mature: 2570 lbs.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1064&lang=EN

S A V FINAL ANSWER 0035

Born: 02-22-2000
Birth Weight: 69 lbs. Yrlg Frame: 6.3
205 Days: 843 lbs. Mature Frame: 6.0
365 Days: 1360 lbs. Scrotal: 44.0 cm.
Mature: 2475 lbs.

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1044&lang=EN
Click to expand...

Both bulls are popular but not known as calving ease sires. The breed has several easy calving sires for heifers some are just to small at 50 pound calves. It looks like these are both Genex bulls. Look at HARB Windy he is similar but has a better birth weight for heifers. The shipping of semen now has more to do with the price of the semen. Check into that also. I have seen Final Answer some time ago then his frame is much bigger than what they are quoting now.
HARB Windy has been used successfully by one of the owners of Final Answer. The District Genex rep told me this I have not used any of these myself. Just my two cents worth.. My experience do not ask the internet world make your own sound judgement.
 
MN Farm Girl- like I said I wouldn't have any problem with using FINAL ANSWER 0035-he has a high CED 11- and a low BW minus 0.8, with a fairly high accuracy rate .94 so is proven - but if your stuck on Genex- and you want a proven easy calving heifer bull- heres one I have used CALIFORNIA TRAVELER...The only problem is if you are keeping the heifer calves as replacements- he has a little history of bad disposition- altho he makes some pretty momma cows....

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=100AN9550&lang=EN

Another easy calving bull Genex has that I've heard many are using this year is HARB PENDLETON 765 J H-- altho he doesn't have the high accuracy of California Traveler or Final Answer..

http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php?action=DETAIL&code=1AN1134&lang=EN

If you're not stuck on Genex- heres a couple of very easy calving proven heifer bulls N BAR PRIME TIME D806... He will produce reduced frame very functional heifers- that will make top momma cows....He rates tops in udder and teats- marbling, $W, $ EN, and CED...I used him this year- and so far out of 6 heifer calves they have weighed right at 69-70lbs- and 1 bull calf that weighed 80- and all calved on their own very easily...

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AN1520

Another proven bull- that I used a son of on heifers- and is very easy calving and recommended as a heifer bull is Bannon of Wye UMF 8420...He has been used for heifers calving on the range....

http://www.sustainablegenetics.com/bulls/bannonofwye8420.html
 
Looks like Final Answer is getting more votes for Farm Girls heifers.
Final and LT Bando to me look like Genex retail bulls that have been headlined for a long time and have been used everywhere from little johnny 4-H heifer to Big Jims rainbow herd,
I just like a little different change pace.
We are looking at the SAV bulls pretty close for flushing and have been going back and forth with all of their Genex bulls. One of my possible embryo buyers likes Final and has had good luck with him. I had seen him as a young bull and took him off any possible list. With his mature photo and proofs makes my judgement look not good.

We are tossing around Density but his BW issue worryies me about using him on second calf heifers. Pioneer calves are comming boatsing right now. Over 80 BW we can not sell but could keep and mate right. I have Bismark ordered he is the hot one this year but what about when I have calves to sell..I have some issues with his pedigree both top and bottom. Will it sell in time?

How big are these Density calves? As far as I can tell he is clean and has the green light special.. HARB Windy...also
 
You need to look at 004's calving ease dirct EPD and his docility EPD. From what I have heard they both should throw some red flags.
 
We've got some heifers bred to Final Answer and have some cow's that are daughters of Bando 9074 they are pretty nice little cow's.

I've heard enough of inconsistancies in the 004 cattle I won't use him.The biggest reason we used Final Answer is he's the 1/2 brother to Sitz Alliance that would work well on our heifer's.Sitz Alliance has worked well for me.
 
You need to look at 004's calving ease dirct EPD and his docility EPD. From what I have heard they both should throw some red flags.
Click to expand...

I don't want to sound dumb guys, but what do you mean by the docitliy EPD? I guess I never heard of that before. Though my common sense is telling me one thing I just hope I'm on the same page as you guys. :-)

Then for our shorthorn cows and second calf heifers we having been seriously looking at Muridale Buster 2nd 76P.

http://www.cattlevisions.com/Shorthorn/MuridaleBuster.php

Then if you follow this link you can see more of their cattle and Buster as well...

http://muridale.com/

Dad and I both like this bull alot. So if there are any other thoughts?

My experience do not ask the internet world make your own sound judgement.
Click to expand...

We weren't gonna make the choice from this but we wanted others opinions that use these bulls and are up on the angus a little bit better than we are... I was just wondering on your guys' thoughts, but the point was not to make the choice from here just get some feedback.

Thanks,
MN Farm Girl
 
Docility EPD are just an expression of how quiet or agressive a bulls calves will be. Calves are scored from 1 - 6 with 1 being so quiet they are a bit dumb and 6 being killers. The EPD expresses the probability of a sires calves being 1s or 2s. A higher number = quieter cattle.
LM started this EPD (with good reason) and it really works. Quieter cattle are associated with better gain, more efficient conversion and increased tenderness, fewer dark cutters, etc.
There are some AN sires that produce cattle with 6 (pronounced attack behaviour). There is good info on the nalf.org site and on AN sires on angus.org
 
MN Farm Girl said:
You need to look at 004's calving ease dirct EPD and his docility EPD. From what I have heard they both should throw some red flags.
Click to expand...

I don't want to sound dumb guys, but what do you mean by the docitliy EPD? I guess I never heard of that before. Though my common sense is telling me one thing I just hope I'm on the same page as you guys. :-)
Click to expand...
If you're checking on angus- you can go to this page on the AAA website...Lists some of the sires Docility EPD's...The higher the number the quieter the calves......

http://www.angussiresearch.com/DocilitySires.html
 
Have calves by the original buster last two years. They are thick, and very docile. Birth weights this year are bigger than last. The two calves I posted pictures of last fall are by buster. "Saving Feed"
 

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