life & death, grids, grades and premiums...

[Emma]

Hi all, long time. So far I have 20 calves tearing up the fields and 6 more due in August. Tiny numbers compared to what everyone here does but it keeps me challenged because I'm learning everything as I go.

I had to pull my first calf a couple weeks ago from its heifer mom...it was a normal presentation but it was a little overlarge and got stuck. When I decided to butt in I thought I'd left it too late because its hooves were cold and its tongue was cold and sticking straight out of its very swollen head. I didn't know at that point that the head was swollen from all the pressure, I thought it was a freak. Poor mama cow was lying on the ground and looked back at me asking for any help I could give, so I rolled up my sleeves and reached in her. That's when I felt the enormous head. I tried gently stretching her opening between contractions, and during contractions I pulled the calf's slippery legs with my hands. She finally passed it and then she just lay there exhausted. I checked the calf but couldn't see sign of heartbeat or breathing. I rubbed it all over and lifted its ribcage up and down trying to get it to breathe. I did everything short of give it mouth to mouth. Poor little freak with the gigantic head, I was thinking, I should let it die if it hasn't already. Its eyes were wide open and flat and empty. I kept working on it though, because I don't know any better. Then there was a twitch around the eye, a little after that there was a gurgly noise, then another and some more twitches, then a little heartbeat in its chest, and then the heart was racing. Great, I thought, now I have an oxygen-starved, brain dead calf with a gigantic head to take care of forever. My heifer started showing signs of recovery then and she managed to stand and lick the calf a little.

Long story nipped in the bud too late...today this big hurking bull calf named Andre the Giant is tearing up the fields with the rest of babies, and his head is quite perfect and his mama adores him. I think she likes me a little better now, too.

So, up to this point I've been spending all my time and energy learning how to keep the beasts alive and healthy and marketing the breeding stock, and I'm just now getting around to learning about the feedout / end stages of the business. I have some questions for you.

• What is the grid?
  What does it mean to Beat the Grid?
  On average, what percent of your cattle grade higher than select?
  How much premium do they pay for grades above select?
  Does anyone on the forum grass finish or grass/alfalfa finish?
  Do you allow cattle being fedout to also have access to pasture?
  Has anyone used Wagyu bulls on their first calf heifers to ensure low birthweights?

Thanks for any insight you can provide to rescue me from my benighted state of ignorance.

 

[3frame]

hello emma we finish all of ours on forage, would be happy to answer any questions on that

 

[Mike]

What is the grid?

It's a method of buying cattle based on carcass quality. You get paid after they are harvested and graded.

What does it mean to Beat the Grid?

To have cattle that grade higher quality than the norm and get all the "supposed" premiums available.

How much premium do they pay for grades above select?

Depends on the packer and grid, but premiums are very low at present. The "Choice/Select" Spread is only a few dollars. In fact, for a few days a few weeks ago, "Select" beef was paying higher than "Choice".

Stay out of the "Standard" grade and you'll do OK. You might do better with "Select" calves, as they tend to be more feed efficient overall......

 

[PPRM]

Emma,

I travel all over Washington and would be happy to sit down with you at some point.... To sell cattle on the grid you are going to have to have grain finished Cattle. There is a deduction, a fairly large one, for Yellow Fat Carcasses.....

I was at about 83% choice last year.....

That being said, I only sell a few head to Tyson and the rest I direct market...if you direct market, prepare to spend 30-40 hours a week on just that end of things... However, I have found it to be the most lucrative part of the time I do spend in the Cattle endeavor,

PPRM

 

[bjb-iowa]

Sounds like you were fortunate to save the calf.....A tip for the next one....First, hold the calf up by the hind feet to get drainage out of the mouth and help clear the lungs; Second, tickle the inside of the nostril with a piece of straw or hay....you hope for a "sneezing" effect to help clear any congestion and start the calf breathing.

 

[Emma]

Sounds like you were fortunate to save the calf.....A tip for the next one....First, hold the calf up by the hind feet to get drainage out of the mouth and help clear the lungs; Second, tickle the inside of the nostril with a piece of straw or hay....you hope for a "sneezing" effect to help clear any congestion and start the calf breathing.

I think the calf's the lucky one still being alive after me bumbling with it! I'm not entirely sure it was better off with me there. I had no idea what I was doing and my vet was on his out-of-area-circuit for the week.

Thanks for the tip, I'll remember it.

 

[Emma]

Emma,

I travel all over Washington and would be happy to sit down with you at some point.... To sell cattle on the grid you are going to have to have grain finished Cattle. There is a deduction, a fairly large one, for Yellow Fat Carcasses.....

I was at about 83% choice last year.....

That being said, I only sell a few head to Tyson and the rest I direct market...if you direct market, prepare to spend 30-40 hours a week on just that end of things... However, I have found it to be the most lucrative part of the time I do spend in the Cattle endeavor,

PPRM

Thanks, PPRM. We've been a very small scale cow and calf operation so far, selling the fullblood bulls and a few purebred cows & heifers but keeping most to increase our fullblood cow herd. I'm hoping that remains our focus and I never have to put a lot of time into marketing the steers. I've only had to steer 3 of the purebreds to date; they'll be fed out and go into the family freezers.

I've been trying to understand how this end of the market works because the real value of most of our fullblood bulls is in selling them to Angus breeders to cover their first-calf heifers with to ensure low birth weights, and then also it increases the grade quality in the F1 carcasses so the Angus guys get paid a premium. I don't want to market our animals this way without understanding better how the market works and what the true benefits are.

Do you breed Angus? Do you have any opinions on crossing Angus with Wagyu? Thanks!

 

[Emma]

What is the grid?

It's a method of buying cattle based on carcass quality. You get paid after they are harvested and graded.

What does it mean to Beat the Grid?

To have cattle that grade higher quality than the norm and get all the "supposed" premiums available.

How much premium do they pay for grades above select?

Depends on the packer and grid, but premiums are very low at present. The "Choice/Select" Spread is only a few dollars. In fact, for a few days a few weeks ago, "Select" beef was paying higher than "Choice".
Stay out of the "Standard" grade and you'll do OK. You might do better with "Select" calves, as they tend to be more feed efficient overall......

Thanks, Mike!

 

[PPRM]

My cowherd is an Angus Base with some Simmental, Shorthorn or Heeford in some of the cows..I gues I have a few Cows that do go back to a Saler Cow. These few have great dispositions and are great mother cows....

Wagyu..... I would get aligned with someone before doing it..I think Agri beef has a program that pays a $15.00/cwt premium....

The reason I wouldn't do it without the premium is you will get smaller calves that take longer to mature. I have a friend who does this with AgriBeef I think....He breeds all his hiefers this way,


Pat

 

[Mike]

If you want to cross Wagyu, you need a growth breed to add. With the typical angus you'll get a slow growing holstein looking calf that will take forever to finish.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Wagyu Cattle Cross Experiment

By John Brethour, Beef Cattle Scientist of Western Kansas Agricultural Research Centers

In this experiment, a Wagyu bull was crossed with Charolais cows in an effort to provide a quality, lean carcass.

"The experiment involved steers produced from crossing Wagyu bulls and Charolais cows. They are part of a research goal to improve management strategies for production of high quality beef. Specifically these cattle were acquired to track the development of marbling as a function of time on feed in order to improve prediction models based on ultrasound estimates of marbling.

Wagyu is a high marbling breed from Japan. The cross with Charolais considered that a high marbling but lean carcass might be the result. That in fact occurred. The steers were harvested December 29, 1999. The 17 sold at that time graded 88% Prime (15/17) and the other two were average and high Choice. They were 47 percent Yield Grade 1, and also 47 percent Yield Grade 2 while one steer was a Yield Grade 3. Back-fat averaged only .30 inch. This might very well be the best carcass results on a group of cattle in the history of grading cattle in this country."




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
"The cattle graded more than 90 percent prime, and the men took six to the 1999 National Western Stock Show for the carcass contest, where they won 1st place with an unprecedented 100%, Prime-graded group. 'One judge said this was 'the best set of carcasses I've ever seen in my life,' Brethour said."

Kansas State Researcher and Extension Animal Scientist, John Brethour, and Jim Scott, owner of Prime Line Genetics.

 

[Clarencen]

I do not know much about the grid system of marketing, but to my way of thinking a grid is just a chart with both vertical lines and horizontal lines, One set of lines represents quality grade, manly based on marbling, the other represents yield grade, the amount of saleable meat the carcus yields. Where these lines intersect determines the price.
I believe a grid system could be used to price feeder cattle also. One set of lines might be gain per day the other might be gain per pounds of feed. I do not believe a Wagyu Angus would cross would look to well on such a grid.

 

[Emma]

Thanks for your input, everyone, I appreciate it.

The Charolais/Wagyu study is intriguing, I wonder why I've never heard of the benefits of that cross, maybe there aren't many Charolais breeders in the northwest? I don't know anything about Charolais and virtually nothing about Angus, but many Wagyu breeders market their bulls around the benefits of Wagyu on Angus heifers. You've given me some good starts for research.

We have a small herd of fullblood & purebred Wagyu, about 70 head. I like having the cow/calf business, and the fullblood bulls have sold easily so far; one of my goals is to sell the purebred bulls as bulls and not have to turn them into steers and feed them out. I get pretty attached to the little beasts and the herd is so small there's no anonymity, every animal has a personality - good or contrary - and I'd rather channel them into breeding than eat them. The owner is agreeable if I can market them successfully.

I'm really interested in hearing ranchers' opinions of the Wagyu breed because to date I only have input from other Wagyu breeders. Thanks again.

 

[Sandhusker]

If you want to cross Wagyu, you need a growth breed to add. With the typical angus you'll get a slow growing holstein looking calf that will take forever to finish.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Wagyu Cattle Cross Experiment

By John Brethour, Beef Cattle Scientist of Western Kansas Agricultural Research Centers

In this experiment, a Wagyu bull was crossed with Charolais cows in an effort to provide a quality, lean carcass.

"The experiment involved steers produced from crossing Wagyu bulls and Charolais cows. They are part of a research goal to improve management strategies for production of high quality beef. Specifically these cattle were acquired to track the development of marbling as a function of time on feed in order to improve prediction models based on ultrasound estimates of marbling.

Wagyu is a high marbling breed from Japan. The cross with Charolais considered that a high marbling but lean carcass might be the result. That in fact occurred. The steers were harvested December 29, 1999. The 17 sold at that time graded 88% Prime (15/17) and the other two were average and high Choice. They were 47 percent Yield Grade 1, and also 47 percent Yield Grade 2 while one steer was a Yield Grade 3. Back-fat averaged only .30 inch. This might very well be the best carcass results on a group of cattle in the history of grading cattle in this country."




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
"The cattle graded more than 90 percent prime, and the men took six to the 1999 National Western Stock Show for the carcass contest, where they won 1st place with an unprecedented 100%, Prime-graded group. 'One judge said this was 'the best set of carcasses I've ever seen in my life,' Brethour said."

Kansas State Researcher and Extension Animal Scientist, John Brethour, and Jim Scott, owner of Prime Line Genetics.

Is there any more information on the age of the cattle, days on feed, conversion ratio, etc.....?

 

[Sandhusker]

What is the grid?

It's a method of buying cattle based on carcass quality. You get paid after they are harvested and graded.

What does it mean to Beat the Grid?

To have cattle that grade higher quality than the norm and get all the "supposed" premiums available.

How much premium do they pay for grades above select?

Depends on the packer and grid, but premiums are very low at present. The "Choice/Select" Spread is only a few dollars. In fact, for a few days a few weeks ago, "Select" beef was paying higher than "Choice".
Stay out of the "Standard" grade and you'll do OK. You might do better with "Select" calves, as they tend to be more feed efficient overall......

Thanks, Mike!

R-CALF found out that, on average, cattle sold on the grid get sold for less than the regular market. The reason is that the discounts overwhelm the premiums. This doesn't mean the grid is necessarily a bad way to market, just make sure the cattle you sell that way are the quality that won't get beat up.

 

[Mike]

Is there any more information on the age of the cattle, days on feed, conversion ratio, etc.....?

Not that I know of. Shoot an e-mail to the Kansas Extension program, they may have it.