Local auction action

[Silver]

The only thing I can't figure out is if the country is full of cows that can turn in calves 55-65% of their bodyweight, is full of 1500lb plus cows, their calves can grow at over 3lbs a day on straight silage and the average calving date is around March 18th - how come more than half the calves going through the auction currently are 5 and 6 weights :?
They are not June calves either because that is still not that common in this area and most that do it sell yearlings in August.

I always get a kick out of folks that use that 55-65% number like it means something. I bet those little low lines can wean 75% body weight.... yippee. A 300 lb calf out of a 500 lb cow is still a 300 lb calf. Can I raise twice as many on the same place? Who cares.
Profit is the only number that means anything, and if you can make a profit with runts or monsters, more power to you. If not, it doesn't matter one bit what the magic weaning ratio that cow had.

 

[Grassfarmer]

The only thing I can't figure out is if the country is full of cows that can turn in calves 55-65% of their bodyweight, is full of 1500lb plus cows, their calves can grow at over 3lbs a day on straight silage and the average calving date is around March 18th - how come more than half the calves going through the auction currently are 5 and 6 weights :?
They are not June calves either because that is still not that common in this area and most that do it sell yearlings in August.

I always get a kick out of folks that use that 55-65% number like it means something. I bet those little low lines can wean 75% body weight.... yippee. A 300 lb calf out of a 500 lb cow is still a 300 lb calf. Can I raise twice as many on the same place? Who cares.
Profit is the only number that means anything, and if you can make a profit with runts or monsters, more power to you. If not, it doesn't matter one bit what the magic weaning ratio that cow had.

So I guess we just all post our profits and be done with it? No need for discussion about, or comparison of alternate systems, breeding philosophies etc. I think this site would die off pretty quick if that happened.

 

[Silver]

The only thing I can't figure out is if the country is full of cows that can turn in calves 55-65% of their bodyweight, is full of 1500lb plus cows, their calves can grow at over 3lbs a day on straight silage and the average calving date is around March 18th - how come more than half the calves going through the auction currently are 5 and 6 weights :?
They are not June calves either because that is still not that common in this area and most that do it sell yearlings in August.

I always get a kick out of folks that use that 55-65% number like it means something. I bet those little low lines can wean 75% body weight.... yippee. A 300 lb calf out of a 500 lb cow is still a 300 lb calf. Can I raise twice as many on the same place? Who cares.
Profit is the only number that means anything, and if you can make a profit with runts or monsters, more power to you. If not, it doesn't matter one bit what the magic weaning ratio that cow had.

So I guess we just all post our profits and be done with it? No need for discussion about, or comparison of alternate systems, breeding philosophies etc. I think this site would die off pretty quick if that happened.

You think do you? My initial tirade on here stands. This site has become a "little and British or you don't know what you're doing" site and it irritates me. There are constant disparaging remarks made about those that run larger or exotic cattle and it's been nearly enough to drive at least myself right off the site. 'Cept I'm to stubborn and miserable to leave :wink:
I don't mind discussing anything about ranching, I enjoy the conservations and debates that go on around here. I like to see how different folks in different places do things. It's educational and informative. I've just had enough of the constant jabs at the larger and exotic animals, seems a shame that folks can't have pride in their own stuff without running other peoples stock down.

 

[High Plains]

I've mostly been reading (lurking?) here lately so I'm not a very good member of the forum. Don't have time to do much more than make a comment here and there. However, the singlular attack on larger-than-small cows here has been fairly prevalent for some time. If you like 'em smaller, then go ahead and raise 'em smaller. If you like 'em bigger, then the same applies. It's each of our responsibilities to ourselves to do it the best we can and to try to stay around to do it again next year. Vive la difference! 8)

HP

 

[hillsdown]

GF what sale barn were you at ?

 

[Grassfarmer]

Rimbey, Hillsdown.

Silver, I for one have nothing against exotic cattle. My Dad was one of the first in Scotland to use Charolais through AI back in 1960 and there are only a few years since then that first he, then we, then I haven't used either a Charolais or Simmental bull.

 

[hillsdown]

Thanks GF, I haven't been there in about 8 years. That area is full of continentals and a lot of older producers so the lrg size of cattle does not surprise me ..

BTW I love my breed and have no problem with others, good cattle come in all sizes.. :wink:

You guys getting any moisture in your area. We have been dry dry dry.. All the snow is gone and when they forecast it ,it always gets called off. This area and east of us got hit really really hard with the drought last year and if things do not change soon we will be in worse shape...

 

[Grassfarmer]

No fresh moisture, really nothing to speak of this year except an inch or two of snow once or twice. We are getting a bit of melt now - some fields starting to peak through, water running, most completely white still but where the cows have been has bared off.
Residual moisture levels here are bad - undoubtedly the worst since records began but the longer range forecasts I've seen are pointing to a dry spring but average to above average summer rainfall level. Lets hope they are right.

 

[hillsdown]

No fresh moisture, really nothing to speak of this year except an inch or two of snow once or twice. We are getting a bit of melt now - some fields starting to peak through, water running, most completely white still but where the cows have been has bared off.
Residual moisture levels here are bad - undoubtedly the worst since records began but the longer range forecasts I've seen are pointing to a dry spring but average to above average summer rainfall level. Lets hope they are right.

So they are predicting a perfect weather year, we can get the crops in on time get the right amount of rain and sunshine and the oilfield fellas will not even have a break up this year..

I hope for once they are right, as we need a break.. 8)

I fed the girls and babes tonight and then my replacements and the yearlings ran to the gate in their 25 acre area when they heard the tractor coming , all I could see was a dust cloud.. :?

 

[Soapweed]

I always get a kick out of folks that use that 55-65% number like it means something. I bet those little low lines can wean 75% body weight.... yippee. A 300 lb calf out of a 500 lb cow is still a 300 lb calf. Can I raise twice as many on the same place? Who cares.
Profit is the only number that means anything, and if you can make a profit with runts or monsters, more power to you. If not, it doesn't matter one bit what the magic weaning ratio that cow had.

So I guess we just all post our profits and be done with it? No need for discussion about, or comparison of alternate systems, breeding philosophies etc. I think this site would die off pretty quick if that happened.

You think do you? My initial tirade on here stands. This site has become a "little and British or you don't know what you're doing" site and it irritates me. There are constant disparaging remarks made about those that run larger or exotic cattle and it's been nearly enough to drive at least myself right off the site. 'Cept I'm to stubborn and miserable to leave :wink:
I don't mind discussing anything about ranching, I enjoy the conservations and debates that go on around here. I like to see how different folks in different places do things. It's educational and informative. I've just had enough of the constant jabs at the larger and exotic animals, seems a shame that folks can't have pride in their own stuff without running other peoples stock down.

Silver, I am probably one of the guilty ones, and for that I apologize. Just to stir this pot a little bit, though, we had to pull a calf out of a mature cow this evening. There have only been three or four mature cows that we have had to help this year, and they were malpresentations. This cow is one of the biggest cows on the ranch, and probably weighs in excess of 1600 pounds. She has quite a bit of Gelbvieh influence, is ten years old, and is in just right condition. She had been fooling around all afternoon, and the calf's feet had been showing for well over an hour.

The Kosmo Kid got her in the head catch and hooked on the chains. He tried to pull it, but soon gave me a call on the cell phone. He said, "This calf is a monster. It's as big as Rena, and will probably have to be a C-section." Arriving at the scene to offer assistance and free advice, I grabbed the handle on the winch. Kosmo had the chains hooked correctly, with a loop above each ankle and a half hitch below the ankle. As I pulled, my question was, "Is the head coming through the pelvis?" It was, so I continued pressure. There was a lot of creaking of bones happening, and that was what freaked out my kid. Anyway, we kept after it and the humongous calf arrived on the scene alive and well. The cow had a little trouble getting up, and I ended up drenching the calf with colostrum, figuring it would be awhile before it and the cow coincided. This whole episode would have been a total wreck out in nice weather pasture-calving conditions. The way it is, all is well that ends well. My point is I kind of like our moderate-sized Angus cows bred to moderated-sized easy calving Angus bulls. They don't make much money but they are easy to raise. :wink:

 

[leanin' H]

Silver, out here on the desert 95% of the cattle have to be moderate framed to do well on the mountain. But i have a Neighbor who is very successful and 84 who runs very large framed cattle and does quite well every fall at weaning. Simm, Tarantaise, Saler and then some make up his herd. What works for him may not work everywhere but thats not the point. If you are enjoying yourself, cashing a check when you sell that makes you smile and your cattle happen to weigh more than somebody else....... Good for you! One of the reasons I shoot a .270 rifle was because everyone else had a 30-06. I like doing stuff how I do it. Glad you do too. :wink:

 

[Silver]

My point is I kind of like our moderate-sized Angus cows bred to moderated-sized easy calving Angus bulls. They don't make much money but they are easy to raise. :wink:

Well Soapweed, I can't completely disagree with you. I consider our cattle to be moderate sized and I'm all for moderation in all things. I too like to take advantage of moderate-sized easy calving (red) Angus bulls on the heifers. I expect not to have to help a mature cow unless there is a malpresentation, and I figure our cows tend to be as easy to raise as is reasonable to expect.
I suppose my initial point remains the same, that it's great to be proud of your own operation but it isn't necessary to take shots at the way other folks do things just to make oneself appear better. And you haven't done that so have nothing to apologize for :wink:

 

[hillsdown]

So I guess we just all post our profits and be done with it? No need for discussion about, or comparison of alternate systems, breeding philosophies etc. I think this site would die off pretty quick if that happened.

You think do you? My initial tirade on here stands. This site has become a "little and British or you don't know what you're doing" site and it irritates me. There are constant disparaging remarks made about those that run larger or exotic cattle and it's been nearly enough to drive at least myself right off the site. 'Cept I'm to stubborn and miserable to leave :wink:
I don't mind discussing anything about ranching, I enjoy the conservations and debates that go on around here. I like to see how different folks in different places do things. It's educational and informative. I've just had enough of the constant jabs at the larger and exotic animals, seems a shame that folks can't have pride in their own stuff without running other peoples stock down.

Silver, I am probably one of the guilty ones, and for that I apologize. Just to stir this pot a little bit, though, we had to pull a calf out of a mature cow this evening. There have only been three or four mature cows that we have had to help this year, and they were malpresentations. This cow is one of the biggest cows on the ranch, and probably weighs in excess of 1600 pounds. She has quite a bit of Gelbvieh influence, is ten years old, and is in just right condition. She had been fooling around all afternoon, and the calf's feet had been showing for well over an hour.

The Kosmo Kid got her in the head catch and hooked on the chains. He tried to pull it, but soon gave me a call on the cell phone. He said, "This calf is a monster. It's as big as Rena, and will probably have to be a C-section." Arriving at the scene to offer assistance and free advice, I grabbed the handle on the winch. Kosmo had the chains hooked correctly, with a loop above each ankle and a half hitch below the ankle. As I pulled, my question was, "Is the head coming through the pelvis?" It was, so I continued pressure. There was a lot of creaking of bones happening, and that was what freaked out my kid. Anyway, we kept after it and the humongous calf arrived on the scene alive and well. The cow had a little trouble getting up, and I ended up drenching the calf with colostrum, figuring it would be awhile before it and the cow coincided. This whole episode would have been a total wreck out in nice weather pasture-calving conditions. The way it is, all is well that ends well. My point is I kind of like our moderate-sized Angus cows bred to moderated-sized easy calving Angus bulls. They don't make much money but they are easy to raise. :wink:

SW what are you suggesting/inferring ?????

 

[Soapweed]

Silver, I am probably one of the guilty ones, and for that I apologize. Just to stir this pot a little bit, though, we had to pull a calf out of a mature cow this evening. There have only been three or four mature cows that we have had to help this year, and they were malpresentations. This cow is one of the biggest cows on the ranch, and probably weighs in excess of 1600 pounds. She has quite a bit of Gelbvieh influence, is ten years old, and is in just right condition. She had been fooling around all afternoon, and the calf's feet had been showing for well over an hour.

The Kosmo Kid got her in the head catch and hooked on the chains. He tried to pull it, but soon gave me a call on the cell phone. He said, "This calf is a monster. It's as big as Rena, and will probably have to be a C-section." Arriving at the scene to offer assistance and free advice, I grabbed the handle on the winch. Kosmo had the chains hooked correctly, with a loop above each ankle and a half hitch below the ankle. As I pulled, my question was, "Is the head coming through the pelvis?" It was, so I continued pressure. There was a lot of creaking of bones happening, and that was what freaked out my kid. Anyway, we kept after it and the humongous calf arrived on the scene alive and well. The cow had a little trouble getting up, and I ended up drenching the calf with colostrum, figuring it would be awhile before it and the cow coincided. This whole episode would have been a total wreck out in nice weather pasture-calving conditions. The way it is, all is well that ends well. My point is I kind of like our moderate-sized Angus cows bred to moderate-sized easy calving Angus bulls. They don't make much money but they are easy to raise. :wink:

SW what are you suggesting/inferring ?????

My point is that a moderate-sized live calf will make a rancher more money than a very large dead calf out of a very large cow, especially if that very large cow passes on her very large size to her unborn calves. My tongue-in-cheek other point is that it's a good thing we were watching this cow pretty close. Had she been calving out on a big pasture on the "honor system," even in very nice weather, both she and the calf would have perished.

 

[flyingS]

Soap, will you cull her or keep her around to see if she has trouble again? If she were a 5 or 6 year old cow would you cull here or give her another chance? Just wondering.

 

[Anonymous]

Silver, I am probably one of the guilty ones, and for that I apologize. Just to stir this pot a little bit, though, we had to pull a calf out of a mature cow this evening. There have only been three or four mature cows that we have had to help this year, and they were malpresentations. This cow is one of the biggest cows on the ranch, and probably weighs in excess of 1600 pounds. She has quite a bit of Gelbvieh influence, is ten years old, and is in just right condition. She had been fooling around all afternoon, and the calf's feet had been showing for well over an hour.

The Kosmo Kid got her in the head catch and hooked on the chains. He tried to pull it, but soon gave me a call on the cell phone. He said, "This calf is a monster. It's as big as Rena, and will probably have to be a C-section." Arriving at the scene to offer assistance and free advice, I grabbed the handle on the winch. Kosmo had the chains hooked correctly, with a loop above each ankle and a half hitch below the ankle. As I pulled, my question was, "Is the head coming through the pelvis?" It was, so I continued pressure. There was a lot of creaking of bones happening, and that was what freaked out my kid. Anyway, we kept after it and the humongous calf arrived on the scene alive and well. The cow had a little trouble getting up, and I ended up drenching the calf with colostrum, figuring it would be awhile before it and the cow coincided. This whole episode would have been a total wreck out in nice weather pasture-calving conditions. The way it is, all is well that ends well. My point is I kind of like our moderate-sized Angus cows bred to moderate-sized easy calving Angus bulls. They don't make much money but they are easy to raise. :wink:

SW what are you suggesting/inferring ?????

My point is that a moderate-sized live calf will make a rancher more money than a very large dead calf out of a very large cow, especially if that very large cow passes on her very large size to her unborn calves. My tongue-in-cheek other point is that it's a good thing we were watching this cow pretty close. Had she been calving out on a big pasture on the "honor system," even in very nice weather, both she and the calf would have perished.

Soap last week we had a 1400 lb angus cow have a 140 pound heifer calf. She calved on her due date. I saw the size of the feet and took the cow to the barn. It was a hard pull the cow was unstable for a few hours. his cow never bagged up and we drenched the calf with colostrum we had saved from another heavy milker.

Seven days later we are still bottle feeding the cow and she has never made A BAG. Last night the wife and I caught the cow and checked her bag she had a good stream of milk but still no ball for a bag.

We made her let the calf nurse. My question is with the lack of teats not enlarging or any bag capacity showing would you let the cow raise the calf?

The bulls calves are always small on the dams he breeds. Last year we had a major episode of feed contaminated with zeralenone. So far this year we have had about 8 of the 16 that had complications last year due to the feed problems have problems this year.

We can cross our bull on a longhorn or anything else and we dont have monstrous calves its only the ones that had complications last year due to the feed that was contaminated.

 

[BRG]

I too have been getting a bit disgusted with the pushing of smaller cattle and bad mouthing what some call bigger cattle. If their was only one type of bull to be used, why in the heck are their auctions. Lots of ways to skin a cat and if you are successfull, so be it. I for one don't care for the Pharo type cow, but he is successfull and glad for him. Now by saying that, I don't like monster type cows either, but don't want small one either. I look at body type and move forward. As long as they have some muscle, guts, deep flank and heart, wide top line and length, easy fleshing, sound and can raise a good marketable calf. To me if they have all of this, they are going to weigh more than 1100 lbs.

As far as the calving ease deal goes, in our breed, Red Angus, it comes naturally. Ya their are bulls that are not made for heifers, but on the same note, I think their are bulls that are not made for cows as well, because you will be loosing alot of weight come pay day. What people don't remember is the cows/heifers breeding has 50% of what the calf is as well. Plus management of the female plays another role into it. it is always and only the bulls fault for big calves.

I manage a few sales, and everyone has their own idea of what a MODERATE framed cow is, and ussually they are different. To me that is somewhere in the 5 to 6 frame area while large being bigger and small being smaller. But again, that is my idea.

In our area it is pretty tough to raise anything smaller that what I call a moderate cow. We purchased some mature cows from Buffalo Creek several years ago, and then we purchased some from Padlock Ranch about 10 years ago. They are neighbors to each other and run smaller type cattle. When they got here they both grew some frame and were alot bigger than what they had back there. This is due to the better grass and water we have. They never got anything but grass and water and some grass hay here either. But by saying that, I don't want to raise bulls that are smaller than a 5.5 frame, because we couldn't sell them, and the commercial ranchers would have a hard time selling their calves as well. It has been proven over and over that medium framed calves sell better than anything else.

Also, every time someone talks about sale catalogs that have alot of weaning weights of 800 lbs or higher some on here beet the heck out of the breeder for it. Not sure about anyone else, but when I see weights like that in a book, and then watch the sale, these are what ussually sell the best, so you can't blame the breeder for doing what works for him. Alot have been kicking the SAV program because of his weaning weights, but how can you argue with success? I was at his sale, and I have never been so impressed in my life. They were very uniform from the first pen to the last. and they were all heavy at weaning. I applaud him.

Well I got it off my chest, and now I realize I need more coffee.

 

[gcreekrch]

I believe that using 5.5 to 6.5 frame bulls gives you a feeder animal that the market wants.
By keeping the middle heifers for replacements and selling the larger framed ones you can keep a moderate cowherd.

 

[Justin]

the next person that says the words, "frame score" has to sit in the corner and take a time-out. :wink: just go look at your cows, if you like them big and fat..good. if you like them small and skinny......good. if yours are somewhere in the middle...good. frame score this, frame score that...

sorry for the rant......that phrase is about as over used as "no creep"

 

[RSL]

The best "frame score" is the score carried by a cow that is paid for and generating positive cash flow...
I think cow size should be reflective of environmental productivity and infrastructure/fixed cost overheads. More productive environment generally means slightly bigger cows make more money. Who knows where BIG starts and stops.