Looking for Advice

[High Plains]

Hello folks! I'm a long-time reader of this forum and finally decided to get in on the action. I'm a 30-year old man with a great wife and two young kids. I grew up on a ranch and also have spent some time working on farms and feedlots while going to school, etc. I've even got management experience in those latter two capacities. I can sure identify with many of you good folks and just get goosebumps when I see the pics and read the experiences that are posted here. Just like talking to my neighbors or family in the days of old.

Like many young people these days I have ventured somewhat away from active ag production that I used to be involved with. My family has absolutely no opportunity for me to return home to in the form of ranching or otherwise. My wife stays at home with the kids and I bring home the paycheck from my office-bound job. I'm still employed in the cattle industry, but it's definately a desk job with some travel mixed in. I get paid a decent salary, nothing too fancy, and we live in town with neighbors every direction. Of course, health insurance and time off are the perks of the deal that don't necessarily exist in ranching or other ag endeavors.

Now for the predictable question...Should I attempt to return to ranching? I've got experience and a solid resume that would show plenty of responsibility, performance and ability. However, I can't say that I've managed a ranch on my own nor would I try to convince anyone that I would be the top candidate in the world to do that. However, I sure have a love of cattle and ranching while I've also got the intellect to handle a fair load of responsibility. No, I can't do a C-section by myself or replace an engine in a tractor. However, I do know how to use my mind.

I'm not trying to build my resume here, just trying to paint a picture of the spot that I'm in. Does it make any sense for me to try to get back into ranching, working for someone else? I do know all of the good and bad of ranch life and this is exactly why I struggle with the issue. I don't foresee my wife going back to work until our kids are old enough to go to school. We're not looking to be rich, but don't want to go broke either.

I could go on and on about this, but I'm really looking for some of you to give a little thought to the issue. I'm guessing there are many young men just like me that would ask the same question. In my opinion there is no better audience to ask than the experienced folks (young and old) on this forum.

Thanks.

 

[ranchwife]

First off.....Welcome aboard, High Plains!!! On this board, you will find lots and lots of wonderful people who will go above and beyond to help ya out!! Now, as far as I am concerned, you should GO FOR IT!! Return to ranching!! No better way to raise those kids....NO, you may not have the "benefits" such as insurance (although, many ranches offer this nowadays), or retirement, or a nice, fat pension, but the rewards FAR outweigh the downers!! Things can (and will) be tough and you will question yourself countless times and wonder why you gave up your plush office job.....till you get to take the kids with you on the tractor while you put up the hay, partake in the local ranch branding, see the smile on your kids' faces when they wake up in fresh air, see your hard work come full circle and know that you are doing something that you truly LOVE!!! :!: :!: It sounds to me like you have the ambition to do any ranch PROUD!! If we were looking for help, you'd be getting a call!! Sit down and discuss things with the wife and family, because it truly is a 'FAMILY DECISION'.... whatever that decision may be, please keep us informed and GOOD LUCK to ya!!!

 

[Ranchy]

Howdy, and welcome aboard!!!!!!!!

Yep, no better way to raise kids than on a ranch! Go for it, get those kiddos outta town and into a corral! You'll never regret it, I guarantee it!

But, hope ya have better luck findin a ranch job (or a ranch, even) than Hubby's had the last few years.........of course, he's kinda long in the tooth, and everyone wants a youngster with his amount of experience...... :roll:

Good luck, whatever ya decide to do!

 

[Jinglebob]

Welcome!

If you really understand all the pro's and con's {or maybe if you don't) you should make a list of both and then decide.

If you choose to go to ranchin' and then later decide it ain't your ball of wax, you can always go back to what you were doing.

If you do decide to try it, be very honest and upfront with the boss when you interview. And check out the guy who is looking for help. Find out why he's looking and see if you vcan get some background on him/her.

Go back in the archives and read the posting about hired men moving. Lots of good info there.

Make sure your spouse understands what all will be given up. There ain't a lot of time for trips and lots of times, there really ain't no days off, no matter what they tell you when you hire on. Most places, the land and livestock come first. And you might be a long way from town and schools. That can be both good and bad. It should really be a family decision. Ain't no use in goin' thru' a divorce, if you don't have too.

Good luck in what ever you decide.

 

[cowboyup]

Welcome aboard, may as well do something you enjoy you only get one shot at it.

 

[IL Rancher]

Heck, my hired guy gets more days off than I do ... Gotta talk to the personal director about that... Wait, that's me. I will say it drives my wife nuts that we can't get away as much as she would like. I am being forced to go on "vacation" with her and her family up to Lake michigan in 2 weeks for a week. I know how it is going to be. My phone on my ear the whole time I am gone calling my neighbor and calling the guy about what is going on here. God help me if something breaks because the train station is about 4 blocks from where we are staying and from there it is 1 hour to Chicago and 2 more hours to the farm via Train if I can time it right...


I think if we lived out west the Isolation would drive my wife nuts. Around here we have just enough contact to stay sane, and probably enough to wish for more solitude half the time. I usually wish I was in the middle of a 500k acre ranch with almost no day to day contact for the most part. The inlaws visit and I swear I just want to be in the fields or away for the whole day... I need the quiet.

Good luck on the job search, if we were looking I would be happy to talk to you but most people wouldn't consider a job here a ranch job, not enough time with their rears in a saddle.

 

[greg]

Hello folks! I'm a long-time reader of this forum and finally decided to get in on the action. I'm a 30-year old man with a great wife and two young kids. I grew up on a ranch and also have spent some time working on farms and feedlots while going to school, etc. I've even got management experience in those latter two capacities. I can sure identify with many of you good folks and just get goosebumps when I see the pics and read the experiences that are posted here. Just like talking to my neighbors or family in the days of old.

Like many young people these days I have ventured somewhat away from active ag production that I used to be involved with. My family has absolutely no opportunity for me to return home to in the form of ranching or otherwise. My wife stays at home with the kids and I bring home the paycheck from my office-bound job. I'm still employed in the cattle industry, but it's definately a desk job with some travel mixed in. I get paid a decent salary, nothing too fancy, and we live in town with neighbors every direction. Of course, health insurance and time off are the perks of the deal that don't necessarily exist in ranching or other ag endeavors.

Now for the predictable question...Should I attempt to return to ranching? I've got experience and a solid resume that would show plenty of responsibility, performance and ability. However, I can't say that I've managed a ranch on my own nor would I try to convince anyone that I would be the top candidate in the world to do that. However, I sure have a love of cattle and ranching while I've also got the intellect to handle a fair load of responsibility. No, I can't do a C-section by myself or replace an engine in a tractor. However, I do know how to use my mind.

I'm not trying to build my resume here, just trying to paint a picture of the spot that I'm in. Does it make any sense for me to try to get back into ranching, working for someone else? I do know all of the good and bad of ranch life and this is exactly why I struggle with the issue. I don't foresee my wife going back to work until our kids are old enough to go to school. We're not looking to be rich, but don't want to go broke either.

I could go on and on about this, but I'm really looking for some of you to give a little thought to the issue. I'm guessing there are many young men just like me that would ask the same question. In my opinion there is no better audience to ask than the experienced folks (young and old) on this forum.

Thanks.

8) In my opinion(take it lightly) ranchin will not make yu rich in money--BUT-will make a good place to raise kids and make memories---YU Decide

 

[High Plains]

Thanks for all of the encouragement from everyone. Makes me feel good to know that my gut feeling may not be completely wrong. Looks like I had better start evaluating things and getting my mind made up on how to move forward. Thanks again!!

 

[the_jersey_lilly_2000]

May I suggest, even tho you stated you weren't buildin a resume.....take the first two paragraphs of your post, and add it to your resume. It's worded wonderfully, and really shows what kind of person you are....I say go for it!!!! Your kids will love it!!!! If your wife is at home now anyway, it won't make that much difference if she's at home on a ranch.
There are a few listings in the Classifieds here on ranchers for ranch help. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Oh and Welcome aboard

 

[Red Barn Angus]

High Plains
I read your post with a great deal of interest, probably because that could have been me 30 years ago. I stayed with the job and wished I had taken the other route but just never figured I could afford to do that. Only in the last few years have I been able to be in the ranching business full time and I'm still pretty small "taters" but I feel fortunate I made it eventually.
I generally have more ideas than solutions but there are an awfully lot of older farmers and ranchers who have been in the business all their lives and wouldn't do anything else. Their children, on the other hand, may have little or no interest and may have even moved far away. If the elder generation wants to slow down or retire completely they have little choice but to sell out their livestock and equipment and perhaps rent out their land to another operator. You can't help but think that, after farming or ranching for a lifetime that it would be really tough to sell those things they worked to build and, in the case of livestock, worked to improve the genetics etc. It just seems like some of these older folks would have an interest in taking on a young family to work for now and maybe have a chance to buy into the operation a little at a time and possibly buy out the working assets at retirement time. It would be a lengthy process, probably, but starting out on your own will be a lengthy process as well. I would almost think you would have to keep the town job and work into your dream a little at a time on nights and weekends. It's pretty tough to buy a ranch and become a rancher unless you have some lottery winnings. Too much debt can wipe you out pretty fast but too small an outfit will not support a family. It's a very long term process. Just my opinion.

 

[Turkey Track Bar]

High Plains...

First welcome aboard. I hope you enjoy being a part of the "Ranchers.net family" as much as I do.

Next, I admire you for giving other options some thought. I think Jinglebob, as he usually does, has an excellent post. If I were you I'd list all of the pros and cons, and weight each individually and wholly.

I'd also make sure your wife is 150% or more on board with a change of lifestyle, scenery, paycheck, etc. 'Cause as the story goes, "if Momma ain't happy, no one is happy," is the absolute truth. As Jinglebob said, it is not worth the divorce in the long run. I work with lots of farming and ranching families, and it's amazing what will stir up the hornets nest.

In one particular dairy family, two brothers were in a long term partnership, when the youngest married a gal raised on a dairy. Apparently, she forgot what the dairying life is like, and said either we leave or I leave, and thus one brother was forced to come up with cash for half of the operation. Five years ago when youngest bro got married, this all could have been easily solved, with better communicaiton.

In most ag. families, communication is lousy at best. And, sadly from my viewpoint that lack of communication is the cause of most long term problems.

So, in short, be honest to yourself and your family, and make sure everyone is on board. I'd love to say, yep go do it, because I think America would be way better off if families lived on farms and ranches, but today's America is pretty far removed from that lifestyle, and change is a tough thing in life.

That is my two cents worth, and it's likely worth that amount or less.

Cheers and good luck....

TTB :wink:

 

[Denny]

High Plains
I read your post with a great deal of interest, probably because that could have been me 30 years ago. I stayed with the job and wished I had taken the other route but just never figured I could afford to do that. Only in the last few years have I been able to be in the ranching business full time and I'm still pretty small "taters" but I feel fortunate I made it eventually.
I generally have more ideas than solutions but there are an awfully lot of older farmers and ranchers who have been in the business all their lives and wouldn't do anything else. Their children, on the other hand, may have little or no interest and may have even moved far away. If the elder generation wants to slow down or retire completely they have little choice but to sell out their livestock and equipment and perhaps rent out their land to another operator. You can't help but think that, after farming or ranching for a lifetime that it would be really tough to sell those things they worked to build and, in the case of livestock, worked to improve the genetics etc. It just seems like some of these older folks would have an interest in taking on a young family to work for now and maybe have a chance to buy into the operation a little at a time and possibly buy out the working assets at retirement time. It would be a lengthy process, probably, but starting out on your own will be a lengthy process as well. I would almost think you would have to keep the town job and work into your dream a little at a time on nights and weekends. It's pretty tough to buy a ranch and become a rancher unless you have some lottery winnings. Too much debt can wipe you out pretty fast but too small an outfit will not support a family. It's a very long term process. Just my opinion.

That all sounds romantic but from what I have seen around here when these rancher's retire they want CASH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and lot's of it or they die and the kids fight over every piece divide it into small chunks and cash in to the highest bidder.Most all of them bought their land on contracts for deed but when they sell its Cash they want no terms.Another thing I have always heard is (Why Don't any of you young folks want to farm or ranch)Many do but the older ranchers make sure they rent more than they need and kick dirt in your face every chance they get.The only way I have seen to get what you want is work VERY VERY hard and pay more than anyone else for rents,and don't be afraid to step on some toe's because they will damn sure step on your's.I am 38 years old and have a young friend that has helped me out he's a good friend I have let him borrow my haying equipment and he can use it all he wants at no charge also he's in the market for a Bull and wants to buy one of my AI sired bull calves he would pay or trade me one of his own but I told him for helping me out last summer I will give him one and he can pick before I sell any.Little things help these young guy's also.

My boss from high school made me a deal on 11 old gummer cows in the fall of 1994 I ran them the first year he got all the calves the 1st year than the cows were mine it gave me a start and I'm thankful for it.

I hope I never get driven by Greed if someone is willing to work I am willing to help them,If none of my kids wants to ranch when I am done I will help out some younger person that shows some work ethic,It would be better to give it to a struggleing hard worker rancher than some greedy money driven kids (even if they are my own)If you don't earn it you won't get any of it.

Most of these old ranchers are human and sorry to say GREED is a human nature.

 

[L.E. Stevens]

My two cents worth- I was in the same boat as you awhile back. And like Red Barn's advice, I decided to start out small to try and make it work. When I got to the next step, I started lookin at bigger operations (in terms of ground & potential livestock numbers). Well this involved relocating. And although my wife of many years had no problem with the small operation, she definitely wanted no part of the larger operation for alot of reasons. Needless to say, the advice to discuss it with the wife, completely & at length, is well stated.

 

[Faster horses]

I listen to David Ramsey every chance I get. One man called in and he and his wife were going to have to live with their in-laws (his folks) to make it easier to
get past some point in their lives. This was to last 6 months. He asked David Ramsey his opinion. Dave's answer was, "be sure to talk it over with your wife. Thoroughly and at length. Be sure to listen to what she says. If this is something she doesn't want to do, it will be the longest 6 months of your life."

I think he knew what he was talking about... :?

 

[High Plains]

There again, very good and appreciated perspectives from many. I haven't heard anyone say that the ranching option should be avoided. Guess if I expected that response I'd be spending my time at a different forum. I am glad to see some optimism here. There is a lot of negativity out there about the future of farming and ranching. It's just hard for a young guy with a good job to find any support for the idea of switching over to ranching. I guess if it were easy everybody would be a cowboy, right?

BTW, my wife always says she just wants me to be happy and then she and the kids will also be happy. That's very nice to hear, but may be tested if this ranching path is pursued. I do have a wife that gives me enough rope to hang myself. Trying not to let that happen! I want to make the best decision for the whole family, even though it seems a little selfish on my part to want to ranch for a living.

It would also seem that there would be some possibilities out there with the older generation. As Denny said, not all retiring ranchers are interested in helping out the young guy coming down the road. However, there ought to be something, somewhere. There are lots of ranchers in this country!

Thanks to all for giving this some consideration. Seems like the advice posted here comes from more than just a quick judgement. Glad to be a part of ranchers.net

HP[/u]

 

[Faster horses]

You have a good attitude and what sounds like a very good wife. That alone will help get you through a lot of things. A lot of TRY and a good ATTITUDE is probably the most important thing you can have. (Well, besides money...) :wink:

We're glad to have you as part of our little group here. Welcome!

 

[pknoeber]

That all sounds romantic but from what I have seen around here when these rancher's retire they want CASH $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and lot's of it or they die and the kids fight over every piece divide it into small chunks and cash in to the highest bidder.Most all of them bought their land on contracts for deed but when they sell its Cash they want no terms.Another thing I have always heard is (Why Don't any of you young folks want to farm or ranch)Many do but the older ranchers make sure they rent more than they need and kick dirt in your face every chance they get.The only way I have seen to get what you want is work VERY VERY hard and pay more than anyone else for rents,and don't be afraid to step on some toe's because they will damn sure step on your's.I am 38 years old and have a young friend that has helped me out he's a good friend I have let him borrow my haying equipment and he can use it all he wants at no charge also he's in the market for a Bull and wants to buy one of my AI sired bull calves he would pay or trade me one of his own but I told him for helping me out last summer I will give him one and he can pick before I sell any.Little things help these young guy's also.

My boss from high school made me a deal on 11 old gummer cows in the fall of 1994 I ran them the first year he got all the calves the 1st year than the cows were mine it gave me a start and I'm thankful for it.

I hope I never get driven by Greed if someone is willing to work I am willing to help them,If none of my kids wants to ranch when I am done I will help out some younger person that shows some work ethic,It would be better to give it to a struggleing hard worker rancher than some greedy money driven kids (even if they are my own)If you don't earn it you won't get any of it.

Most of these old ranchers are human and sorry to say GREED is a human nature.

Denny hit the nail on the head. A truer post has never been written. We all like to read the stories about somebody getting a hand up by the older generation, but guess what that older generation's attitude usually is? "Well I earned everything I've got, let them work for it." Which may or may not be true, but what they haven't recognized is that there has been a structural shift in all of ag. It's always been tough to make it farming/ranching, but with the spiraling cost of living expenses and capital requirements, it makes it awfully tough to make the farm/ranch pay while also having to take money out for family living expenses. How many people have heard stories about people that bought land in the 60s & 70s, hit a big year and paid for most of that land in 1 year? I've heard several stories of that, but none ever have that story set in the 80s, 90s, or today.

High Plains, here's what you need to do. Take a pocket notebook with you and give one to your wife. Write down every penny you each spend for a couple of months. Then go through that and make 2 separate copies. You go into one room, your wife goes into another and each of you go through the list and mark off exactly which items you think you can cut out. Compare the lists and see what they look like. Remember, you might be very willing to deprive yourself of a lot of the material items, but what does the rest of the family think? Hopefully you'll be able to find a great situation to move into and it'll all work out. Good luck.

Phil

Edit: Read your post that came up while I was typing. For some background, I've taken over the family farm and also work in ag lending for the FSA doing the old FmHA loans. Now they're just called FSA direct loans. By the way it would be a great resource for you if you do decide to try ranching, but back to the point. Financial strains will do 1 of 2 things for a family. It'll either make it very strong and tight-knit or it will tear it apart. Very little in-between. Whatever you choose, make sure it's a family decision because while your living your dream your family might be in misery.

Sure am glad I'm single, makes these kinds of decisions a whole lot easier.

 

[Clarence]

High Plains:
Read Red barn Angus's post a few more times. I think he has about hit it. desires and dreams are fine but you also have to look at reality. I am not trying to discourage or influence you but go into this with your eyes open.

I am an older rancher, never thought I was big, and I never had what would be an ideal ranch. At my peak we ran 380-400 cows wintered the calves and ran them as yearlings. Much of my pasture was rented.

I had several people who wanted to work with me and perhaps become partners. When we put figures together using realistic expectations, we could not vision this ranch meeting their expectations, and alsoo giving me some return. My nephew worked with me a few years, this could have worked out well in time, but did not give him the income or provide what he expected for the present. I did not encourage him to stay, I told him he had to climb his own mountain and do his own thing. I don't know if it was right or wrong, but others I suggested, they use their education and talents, get a job in town, then find a small place if they wanted to ranch, then build up or move up. I have heard other people tell young people to get a job first, make their mistakes at someone's elses expense, that is thoughtless perhaps but maybe wise.

A job as a ranch manager looks good and may even offer opportunities farther down the road, but beware. Outside investers want a decent return, when it is no longer there they will put their money elsewhere and you may be out of a job. The same with managing for a retired rancher, when he dies the ranch will go to his heirs and most likely sold.

Still it is important to do what you want to do. Like I said before, Climb your own mountain, you pick the time and the place.

 

[ranchwife]

Clarence----wise words!!!! We are in a current situation where if the hubby's business partners pull the plug, then we are done!! Scary!! Hate the thought of losing this place, but it is a definity possibility!! The business partners are all big money folk who put up the dough and have the hubby do all the paperwork and physical work!! They do not have their hearts and souls into this place and, therefore, do not have their livelihoods to lose!!! Glad you brought up the point, however.....High Plains needs to know the pros as well as the cons before jumping in feet first!!