Maxine

[Anonymous]

MRJ-- Been too busy moving cows and working fences to answer your post of last week calling me corrupt, since you posted I must be corrupt since I'm an ex Sheriff, ---- a brand inspector and a Judge and I do not agree with the same ideology that NCBA's leadership has been perpetrating (if anyone knows what that is) but I do have a little time tonight.....Don't know which of the above reasons makes me corrupt since if you look back at the post I didn't call anybody corrupt, but questioned the idealogy of NCBA's President........

Anyway I sometimes have the same feelings about bank owners- but suppress them-wouldn't be right to criticize a person just because they have enough money to have an ownership in a bank, would it?....Criticize me all you want by name- but please hold back on the positions I hold..... When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........

The criticisms against NCBA I posted were what I thought the local feelings would be--And I think I'm right, nobody knows where NCBA even sits now- and the membership recruitment show of last week left everything even more in question ....I have had a chance to talk to several local producers and NCBA members since then- and I still say the same thing-- most have no idea where Stokes and the Texas President are coming from in their speaches (smartest thing is they left Stokes off the TV show)-- it wasn't what came out of the convention the first of the year.....There is a feeling that the Texas feeders and packers are overiding the NCBA total membership wishes-- that and the NCBA's amicus filings against the R-CALF suit will not help the NCBA in one bit--most I hear say, let it go to trial and let a Judge decide.... several members I talked to that had repaid dues now think they have got the snowjob- for the last time.........

 

[Anonymous]

This is also something I have been wanting to ask MRJ. I was disgusted that the 11 point plan came from the membership at the last NCBA convention, but seems to be just swept under the rug since then. Do you agree with that, or how do you see it. I think if nothing else, it looks as if the leadership is thumbing their nose at the NCBA membership.

There was really nothing I would disagree with on the original 11 point plan. You have to at least see that this doesn't pass the smell test, when I am sure that there has not been a vote of membership to rescind their plan? The NCBA impressed me when that came out of the convention.

 

[GotBeef]

Guess I have been hearing all about the 11-point plan through member communications. Perhaps NCBA hasn't put that out like it should have to non-members.

Just wondering -- after the R-CALF show on RFD in a few days, will you be as flat-out unkind to its leadership when they perhaps don't say things as smoothly as you would like?

I know we all have our own opinions but I am as much disturbed by the nastiness at individuals for their beliefs. I am not at all proud of some of us.

 

[Anonymous]

"Just wondering -- after the R-CALF show on RFD in a few days, will you be as flat-out unkind to its leadership when they perhaps don't say things as smoothly as you would like? "

You bet I would. I don't know if you were commenting to me or Oldtimer, or what, but I would hold anyones feet to the fire if they waver. It doesn't have anything to do with saying things smoothly. It is much more than that.

I am sure you are right, that non-members aren't privy to all the info that has to do with that org. It is simular to politics to me. Come to think of it, it is politics. People vote, and then it all is forgotten when they go home. That has a lot to do with disenfranchisement out in cow country.

BTW, how would you know what org. I do or do not belong to?

 

[Murgen]

Does anybody else get the feeling this is being approached more as an election campaign. NCBA one week, R-calf the next. (rebublicans/democrats)

You guys better get your act together in the US, or BSE from Canada will be the least of your worries. You're going to tear yourselves apart, and the industry!

Us guys in Canada are going to have to go somewhere else for our markets, with or without Cargills help!

Speaking of which, does Cargill know something we don't know about Japan? Why would they buy a plant in Canada, close to populated US markets, who also has an office in Japan? Less transportation of boxed beef? Connections in Japan? HMMM?

 

[Brad S]

Oldtimer,
An ununified position in the NCBA proves only that many diverse cattlemen are represented by the NCBA.

The new Pres has said that he wants to find a way for all cattlemen to get along.

 

[Manitoba_Rancher]

When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........




OT-who do you work for? and who do you represent?

 

[Anonymous]

When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........




OT-who do you work for? and who do you represent?

MR- As Sheriff I was elected by the voters of the County- As Judge I was nominated by the Judge and appointed by the County Commissioners with the approval of the Montana Supreme Court and work at their pleasure representing the citizens of the county- as a brand inspector I was petioned by local ranchers, and appointed by the Montana Department of Livestock which is under the Montana Board of Livestock......All of which are made up of some fine people which is why it upsets me when MRJ suggests they are "corrupt" just because I or anyone else does not buy into the current NCBA presidents ideology.

 

[rancher]

This is what GotBeef is talking about that the members are updated on.

NCBA Update on 11-Point Directive on Reopening the Canadian Border to Live Cattle
At the Cattle Industry's Annual Convention in San Antonio, NCBA members passed an 11-point directive on the reopening of the Canadian border to live cattle. Accomplishing all 11 points is top priority for NCBA. This organization has dedicated three full-time staffers in our Washington, D.C. office as well as additional staff in the Denver office to work tirelessly on this directive. NCBA is aware of the importance of this issue. In an effort to keep all members up to date on the progress of this directive, we will be providing an update on each of the 11 points through Member eUpdates. Please look for future pieces to follow in subsequent eUpdates until all 11 points have been addressed.

Point 5: Fed cattle imported for immediate slaughter must be certified to be less than 30 months of age at time of importation

Status: Rules and requirements released on February 22, 2005 state that cattle must be under 30 months to be eligible for export to the United States. These same rules and requirements call for age verification and identification on cattle moving direct to slaughter. Official government documentation by a certified veterinarian will be required. NCBA is working with APHIS to determine the details of an age documentation verification program. Random audits will be conducted to inspect and verify that the program is being followed.

Analysis: The age documentation verification program will require a high level of detail to protect the integrity of the United States domestic herd. The detailed documentation required will affect the number of cattle eligible for export to the United States.

Bottom Line: NCBA will continue to work actively with APHIS as details of the program are finalized.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NCBA Executive Committee Reviews Draft of Amicus Brief for 9th Circuit Court
Goal: To Represent the Science and Safety of Beef
The National Cattlemen's Beef Association's (NCBA) Executive Committee, comprised of 31 voting members, all of whom are beef producers from across the country, reviewed today a draft of an amicus brief that will be submitted to the 9th Circuit Court in the case of R-CALF vs. USDA, APHIS and Mike Johanns In His Capacity as the Secretary of Agriculture. Amicus, literally meaning "friend of the court," is a brief filed by someone who is not party to the litigation but believes the court's decision may affect its interest. The deadline for submission is April 21, 2005.

The purpose of the amicus brief is to demonstrate to the court that the Minimal Risk Rule is based on science that consistently shows beef is safe from BSE.

In addition to being reviewed by NCBA's executive committee, it also is being considered by more than 20 state cattlemen and other agriculture organizations that feel equally passionate about ensuring beef's safety is represented in the hearing.

"The preliminary injunction granted by a district court in Montana is founded on a concern over human and animal health. The science clearly states beef is safe from BSE. Our goal is to ensure the Circuit Court, which is considering the government's appeal to this injunction, has the information it needs to make a decision based on science," said Jim McAdams, Texas cattle producer and NCBA president. "The fact of the matter is court discussions become a matter of public record, and as an industry, ranchers and farmers will not stand idly by and let a lack of information or misinformation from activists groups within our industry question the safety of beef."

The injunction was granted to R-CALF in early March. R-CALF, an acronym for Ranchers-Cattlemen's Action Legal Fund, has said in its efforts to maintain trade barriers with Canada that "recent scientific evidence has revealed that the agent responsible for BSE contamination has recently been found not just in nerve tissue, but in muscle tissue as well, raising concerns that standards should be raised, not lowered."

"It is inexcusable for a group of our own cattlemen to misrepresent the science to maintain its isolationist position. Consumers have every reason to believe in beef's safety. BSE infectivity has never been found in meat," said McAdams. "NCBA and American ranchers and farmers are providing leadership for our industry by ensuring that the only cattle industry voice in this debate is not that of an isolationist-motivated activist group," he said.

BSE experts from the World Organization for Animal Health agree that BSE is not a public health or herd health risk when key firewalls are in place to protect consumers and cattle, even when a case of BSE is found. The United States has these firewalls in place, as does Canada.

At NCBA's annual meeting in February, cattle producers directed its association staff to resolve 11 challenges before resuming trade with Canada. NCBA has made considerable progress on these directives. Remaining issues include:

Achieving science-based harmonization of blue tongue and anaplasmosis trade requirements for breeding cattle. This effort is supported by Canadian officials and the Canadian beef industry; however, the recent injunction is testing Canada's willingness to resolve this barrier.

Re-opening markets that are closed to U.S. beef, specifically Japan. Smaller export markets are continuing to open, including the recent announcements of trade resumption with Egypt and Taiwan, but NCBA is continuing to pressure Congress and the Administration to push for a resolution on Japan. Japanese officials have said that R-Calf's injunction is stalling progress on opening this key market.
"U.S. cattlemen benefit from global trade. Prior to our border slamming shut after December 23, 2003, the value of U.S. beef exports was roughly $175 per head on fed cattle prices. In order to ensure a future for tomorrow's cattlemen, we need growth in our industry. We cannot grow by artificially limiting supply or limiting ourselves to U.S. consumers that represent only four percent of the world's population. The guiding principle of our trade relations, and fair trade, must be science," said McAdams.

Consumer confidence in the safety of beef has remained strong, despite the December 23, 2003, discovery and subsequent announcements. Likewise, consumer beef demand was up nearly eight percent in 2004, which is in part a testament to the checkoff-funded work of America's beef producers.

 

[rancher]

NCBA Update on 11-Point Directive on Reopening the Canadian Border to Live Cattle
At the Cattle Industry's Annual Convention in San Antonio, NCBA members passed an 11-point directive on the reopening of the Canadian border to live cattle. Accomplishing all 11 points is top priority for NCBA. Our volunteer leaders have made numerous visits to Washington D.C. since early February, we have dedicated three full-time staffers in our Washington, D.C. office as well as additional staff in the Denver office to work tirelessly on this directive. NCBA is aware of the importance of this issue. In an effort to keep all members up to date on the progress of this directive, we will be providing an update on each of the 11 points through Member eUpdates. Please look for future pieces to follow in subsequent eUpdates until all 11 points have been addressed.

Point 7: USDA grades and stamps are not allowed on any imported product.

Status: Using the strictest interpretation of the rule, U.S. grade stamps can only be used on imported carcasses eligible for the U.S. grade and may not be used on imported boxed beef. Currently there is, virtually no beef products imported into the U.S. as carcasses. Instead they are imported as boxed-beef, therefore making the ineligible for the U.S. grade stamp under the current rule.

Analysis: However, industry and government sources say preventing imported beef and lamb from receiving a USDA grade would violate national treatment rules under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. Article 3.1 states that imported products of a WTO member "shall be accorded treatment no less favorable than that accorded to like products of national origin in respect of all laws, regulations."

Bottom Line: This directive is being met given that, virtually all beef is imported as boxed beef and under the current rule boxed beef can not be stamped a U.S. grade. Additionally, realizing that further legislating this issue, to provide language that would prohibit all beef imports, regardless of form, from receiving the U.S. grade stamp would be a violation of world trade agreements, NCBA is pushing USDA to fully consider all possible options toward resolution of producer concerns over the use of the USDA Grade Stamp on imported meat and animals.

 

[rancher]

NCBA MEMBER CALL TO ACTION: Reopening of U.S. Beef Export Markets
Jay Truitt, Vice President, NCBA Government Affairs

Urge Support for Reopening of U.S. Beef Export Markets

USDA is planning to implement their "Canadian Rule" on March 7, 2004. We continue to communicate with USDA about the importance of resuming trade with our own export markets such as Japan.

As you know, at NCBA's recent annual meeting, our membership passed an 11-point directive regarding the resumption of trade with Canada. One of those criteria specifically calls for the Administration to "reach an agreement to re-establish beef and beef byproduct trade with Japan, South Korea and Mexico, and apply economic sanctions if necessary."

NCBA and the Administration have worked tirelessly over the past 14 months to regain our lost export markets, and although we have seen progress, our key export markets remain closed to U.S. beef. It is imperative we increase the pressure on our trading partners to resolve this situation.

To that end, we are using all the resources at our disposal, including mobilizing the support of key members of Congress and Administration Officials.

To support this effort, we are asking NCBA members to:

1. Contact your Senator and Representatives in Congress and communicate the importance of this issue. Attached is a draft letter to Congress which you can provide to your members. Cattle producers can customize the letter as needed or send the letter as written to urge support on this issue.

2. Send letters to key Administration officials. Also attached is a draft letter to Administration officials which you can provide to your members. Listed below is the contact information for officials we recommend contacting.

3. Send copies of your letters and correspondences to NCBA's Washington D.C office so we can schedule the appropriate follow-up meetings with these officials. Send copies of letters to:

Beth Strobridge
NCBA
1301 Pennsylvania Ave, NW, Suite 300
Washington, DC 20004
Fax: 202-638-0607
Email: [email protected]

Your participation in this effort is very important as we work to meet the criteria outlined in our 11-point directive. Please contact us if you have any questions or let us know if there are other resources we can provide.

President George W. Bush
President of the United States
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave, NW
Washington, DC 20500

The Honorable Mike Johanns
U.S. Secretary of Agriculture
1400 Independence Avenue SW
Washington, DC 20250

The Honorable Condoleezza Rice
U.S. Secretary of State
2201 C Street, NW
Washington, DC 20520

Ambassador Peter Allgeier
Deputy U.S. Trade Representative
Office of the U.S. Trade Representative
Executive Office of the President
600 - 17th Street, N.W.
Washington, DC 20508

Michael Green
Senior Director for Asia
U.S. National Security Council
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

His Excellency Ryozo Kato
Embassy of Japan
2520 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20008


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sample Letter to Administration
Dear ____:

America's cattle producers are focused on science-based efforts to normalize trade with our international neighbors. We understand that in a global marketplace, free and fair trade provides us with opportunities to increase value for our products and to expand our businesses into new and additional markets.

It's been over a year since America's first (and to date, only) case of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) was discovered in a Canadian cow. Since our export markets closed on December 23, 2003, cattle producers have suffered an economic loss equal to $175 per head of cattle. Our government, the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA), individual cattle producers, and other industry organizations have worked tirelessly to regain access to these markets and get back the money we are due for our products.

Over the past fourteen months:
. U.S. officials at all levels of our government, including the President, have met with foreign officials in countless meetings for both political and technical discussions.
. We have hosted trade delegations on tours of our beef industry infrastructure, and we have proactively visited their countries.
. We have encouraged them to ask questions about our animal health and food safety systems, and we have entertained each and every request from trading partners for documentation, scientific analysis, and assurance that our cattle herd and food supply are safe.
. We have tested over 230,000 animals in an expanded BSE surveillance program and have not discovered a single case.

It is frustrating to us that this issue remains unresolved despite foreign consumers expressing a need and want for affordable, high-quality U.S. beef. This frustration is coming to at a time when the U.S. Department of Agriculture is days away from re-opening the Canadian border to additional cattle and beef products.

At NCBA's recent annual meeting, our membership passed an 11-point directive regarding the resumption of trade with Canada. One of those criteria specifically calls for the Administration to "reach an agreement to re-establish beef and beef byproduct trade with Japan, South Korea and Mexico, and apply economic sanctions if necessary."

We have done all the right things to produce safe and wholesome beef for world consumption, and we deserve to have these export markets re-opened. We are asking for your support.

Please keep the resolution of these trade issues at the top of your priority list.

Sincerely,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sample Letter to Congress
Dear Senator/Representative ____:

America's cattle producers are focused on science-based efforts to normalize trade with our international neighbors. We understand that in a global marketplace, free and fair trade provides us with opportunities to increase value for our products and to expand our businesses into new and additional markets.

It's been over a year since America's first (and to date, only) case of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) was discovered in a Canadian cow. Since our export markets closed on December 23, 2003, cattle producers have suffered an economic loss equal to $175 per head of cattle. Our government, the National Cattlemen's Beef Association (NCBA), individual cattle producers, and other industry organizations have worked tirelessly to regain access to these markets and get back the money we are due for our products.

Over the past fourteen months:
. U.S. officials at all levels of our government, including the President, have met with foreign officials in countless meetings for both political and technical discussions.
. We have hosted trade delegations on tours of our beef industry infrastructure, and we have proactively visited their countries.
. We have encouraged them to ask questions about our animal health and food safety systems, and we have entertained each and every request from trading partners for documentation, scientific analysis, and assurance that our cattle herd and food supply are safe.
. We have tested over 220,000 animals in an expanded BSE surveillance program and have not discovered a single case.

It is frustrating to us that some of our trading partners continue to drag their feet on this issue despite their own consumers expressing a need and want for affordable, high-quality U.S. beef. This frustration is coming to at a time when the U.S. Department of Agriculture is days away from re-opening the Canadian border to additional cattle and beef products.

At NCBA's recent annual meeting, our membership passed an 11-point directive regarding the resumption of trade with Canada. One of those criteria specifically calls for the Administration to "reach an agreement to re-establish beef and beef byproduct trade with Japan, South Korea and Mexico, and apply economic sanctions if necessary."

We have done all the right things to produce safe and wholesome beef for world consumption, and we deserve to have these export markets re-opened. The time has come for us to take these efforts to a new level. We are asking for your support.

Please contact the President, U.S. Secretaries of Agriculture and State, U.S. Trade Representative, and U.S. Ambassadors to Japan and South Korea, and urge them to keep the reopening of these markets at the top of their priority list.

Sincerely,

 

[mrj]

MRJ-- Been too busy moving cows and working fences to answer your post of last week calling me corrupt, since you posted I must be corrupt since I'm an ex Sheriff, ---- a brand inspector and a Judge and I do not agree with the same ideology that NCBA's leadership has been perpetrating (if anyone knows what that is) but I do have a little time tonight.....Don't know which of the above reasons makes me corrupt since if you look back at the post I didn't call anybody corrupt, but questioned the idealogy of NCBA's President........

Anyway I sometimes have the same feelings about bank owners- but suppress them-wouldn't be right to criticize a person just because they have enough money to have an ownership in a bank, would it?....Criticize me all you want by name- but please hold back on the positions I hold..... When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........

The criticisms against NCBA I posted were what I thought the local feelings would be--And I think I'm right, nobody knows where NCBA even sits now- and the membership recruitment show of last week left everything even more in question ....I have had a chance to talk to several local producers and NCBA members since then- and I still say the same thing-- most have no idea where Stokes and the Texas President are coming from in their speaches (smartest thing is they left Stokes off the TV show)-- it wasn't what came out of the convention the first of the year.....There is a feeling that the Texas feeders and packers are overiding the NCBA total membership wishes-- that and the NCBA's amicus filings against the R-CALF suit will not help the NCBA in one bit--most I hear say, let it go to trial and let a Judge decide.... several members I talked to that had repaid dues now think they have got the snowjob- for the last time.........

OT, I did not SAY you ARE corrupt, nor did I say that you may be corrupt BECAUSE you are a sheriff, judge, brand inspector. I can't recall which thread that was in, so do not have the actual comments to go on here. What I DID say is that you are surely at least as LIKELY to be corrupt as the NCBA leaders who were accused of corruption. I wanted you to understand how that accusation felt. I believe you were involved in perpetuating that thought, if you were not the one making the allegation.

You are being cute with words here, OT, as in the second definition: clever or shrewd. You imply that for a family to "have enough money to have ownership in a bank" somehow makes that family deserving of your feelings of criticism, which you so kindly suppress. How big of you! You probably wouldn't have a clue of understanding the multi-generational family decisions that they would make the real sacrifices necessary to build and keep that bank a viable hometown controlled bank serving the community. I think I made it quite clear that I was basing that statement on things you have said in past posts, and more so on the baseless claims that NCBA leaders were corrupt. You stretch quite a distance in claiming I tarnished all those who got you your positions. I certainly intended only you and those who shared in the smear of NCBA leaders.

It is interesting you now say "what I THOUGHT the local feelings would be". Didn't you previously say it was what locals TOLD you their feelings were? So you add mind reading to your list of talents. I'm jealous!

Anyone who wants to know can easily find out where NCBA stands, IF you really want to know that. Finding fault with NCBA is your favorite pastime on this site, it seems quite clear, so it seems reasonable to find your criticism baseless. How can you reasonably call that program a membership recruitment show. Clearly, more time was spent in giving the information on BSE, with normal time for commercials given to very modest and straightforward membership recruitment. Quite the far cry from every sale barn in SD spending so much of their time giving the hard sell pitch for membership in R-CALF, BTW.

IF there are NCBA "members having trouble figuring out where leaders are coming from in their speeches", they are surely welcome to get on the website, or call them and ask! Where they are "coming from" is working to achieve the directives of the members given to them at the convention. Sorry if that doesn't set well with you. But it is your loss. There has been no deviation from "what came out of the convention", that I have seen. Share the details if you believe you are right on that, and we will see if you have a point. How do you think the TX feeders can "override the total membership when TOTAL feeder membership is less than one third, and cow-calf members are two thirds of the member totals.

BTW, what, specifically, has Terry Stokes done that you do not like, other than breathe, that is.

I know, I know.....you really don't want the amicus brief NCBA filed to show that R-CALF is NOT speaking for all cattle producers after all. There is that darn NCBA with their 26,000+ cattle owner members, plus their multiple state affiliate members who say you are NOT speaking for us.

I am really sorry for any NCBA members who might feel as you claim your friends do. I don't understand how any member who is paying attention, talking to his state officers (at least the officers who are directors on the NCBA board), and reading NCBA paper and magazine, even calling the officers and staff, can fail to know leaders are doing what they are supposed to be as directed at the convention. I can't help but wonder if that isn't a bogus deal someone has dreamed up there.

I'm still convinced that anyone claiming NCBA leaders are corrupt are way off base making such allegations with no basis for such, and well deserve to be called on it.

MRJ

MRJ

 

[Anonymous]

MRJ-- Been too busy moving cows and working fences to answer your post of last week calling me corrupt, since you posted I must be corrupt since I'm an ex Sheriff, ---- a brand inspector and a Judge and I do not agree with the same ideology that NCBA's leadership has been perpetrating (if anyone knows what that is) but I do have a little time tonight.....Don't know which of the above reasons makes me corrupt since if you look back at the post I didn't call anybody corrupt, but questioned the idealogy of NCBA's President........

Anyway I sometimes have the same feelings about bank owners- but suppress them-wouldn't be right to criticize a person just because they have enough money to have an ownership in a bank, would it?....Criticize me all you want by name- but please hold back on the positions I hold..... When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........

The criticisms against NCBA I posted were what I thought the local feelings would be--And I think I'm right, nobody knows where NCBA even sits now- and the membership recruitment show of last week left everything even more in question ....I have had a chance to talk to several local producers and NCBA members since then- and I still say the same thing-- most have no idea where Stokes and the Texas President are coming from in their speaches (smartest thing is they left Stokes off the TV show)-- it wasn't what came out of the convention the first of the year.....There is a feeling that the Texas feeders and packers are overiding the NCBA total membership wishes-- that and the NCBA's amicus filings against the R-CALF suit will not help the NCBA in one bit--most I hear say, let it go to trial and let a Judge decide.... several members I talked to that had repaid dues now think they have got the snowjob- for the last time.........

OT, I did not SAY you ARE corrupt, nor did I say that you may be corrupt BECAUSE you are a sheriff, judge, brand inspector. I can't recall which thread that was in, so do not have the actual comments to go on here. What I DID say is that you are surely at least as LIKELY to be corrupt as the NCBA leaders who were accused of corruption. I wanted you to understand how that accusation felt. I believe you were involved in perpetuating that thought, if you were not the one making the allegation.

You are being cute with words here, OT, as in the second definition: clever or shrewd. You imply that for a family to "have enough money to have ownership in a bank" somehow makes that family deserving of your feelings of criticism, which you so kindly suppress. How big of you! You probably wouldn't have a clue of understanding the multi-generational family decisions that they would make the real sacrifices necessary to build and keep that bank a viable hometown controlled bank serving the community. I think I made it quite clear that I was basing that statement on things you have said in past posts, and more so on the baseless claims that NCBA leaders were corrupt. You stretch quite a distance in claiming I tarnished all those who got you your positions. I certainly intended only you and those who shared in the smear of NCBA leaders.

It is interesting you now say "what I THOUGHT the local feelings would be". Didn't you previously say it was what locals TOLD you their feelings were? So you add mind reading to your list of talents. I'm jealous!

Anyone who wants to know can easily find out where NCBA stands, IF you really want to know that. Finding fault with NCBA is your favorite pastime on this site, it seems quite clear, so it seems reasonable to find your criticism baseless. How can you reasonably call that program a membership recruitment show. Clearly, more time was spent in giving the information on BSE, with normal time for commercials given to very modest and straightforward membership recruitment. Quite the far cry from every sale barn in SD spending so much of their time giving the hard sell pitch for membership in R-CALF, BTW.

IF there are NCBA "members having trouble figuring out where leaders are coming from in their speeches", they are surely welcome to get on the website, or call them and ask! Where they are "coming from" is working to achieve the directives of the members given to them at the convention. Sorry if that doesn't set well with you. But it is your loss. There has been no deviation from "what came out of the convention", that I have seen. Share the details if you believe you are right on that, and we will see if you have a point. How do you think the TX feeders can "override the total membership when TOTAL feeder membership is less than one third, and cow-calf members are two thirds of the member totals.

BTW, what, specifically, has Terry Stokes done that you do not like, other than breathe, that is.

I know, I know.....you really don't want the amicus brief NCBA filed to show that R-CALF is NOT speaking for all cattle producers after all. There is that darn NCBA with their 26,000+ cattle owner members, plus their multiple state affiliate members who say you are NOT speaking for us.

I am really sorry for any NCBA members who might feel as you claim your friends do. I don't understand how any member who is paying attention, talking to his state officers (at least the officers who are directors on the NCBA board), and reading NCBA paper and magazine, even calling the officers and staff, can fail to know leaders are doing what they are supposed to be as directed at the convention. I can't help but wonder if that isn't a bogus deal someone has dreamed up there.

I'm still convinced that anyone claiming NCBA leaders are corrupt are way off base making such allegations with no basis for such, and well deserve to be called on it.

MRJ

MRJ

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:55 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frenchie, based on what I have read and/or heard spoken by the two individuals over the past few years, IMO it is far more likely that the sheriff/brand inspector is the corrupted person that it is that the NCBA president is.

OT, I'm sorry it is a foreign concept to some individuals for an organization to live by, and to request and expect government agencies to also live and act based upon science, honesty and accuracy.

NCBA's actions are well within the mandate from the members. It's really irrelevant whether or not you understand and believe that. The NCBA members are running the show, whether you believe it or not.

MRJ
----------------------------------------------
Sure looks to me like you are calling the position "sheriff/brand inspector" corrupt---just because I questioned where the NCBA's presidents loyalties stand....Does that mean you are "corrupt" because you question the South Dakota Livestock barns loyalties and motives :???:

 

[mrj]

MRJ-- Been too busy moving cows and working fences to answer your post of last week calling me corrupt, since you posted I must be corrupt since I'm an ex Sheriff, ---- a brand inspector and a Judge and I do not agree with the same ideology that NCBA's leadership has been perpetrating (if anyone knows what that is) but I do have a little time tonight.....Don't know which of the above reasons makes me corrupt since if you look back at the post I didn't call anybody corrupt, but questioned the idealogy of NCBA's President........

Anyway I sometimes have the same feelings about bank owners- but suppress them-wouldn't be right to criticize a person just because they have enough money to have an ownership in a bank, would it?....Criticize me all you want by name- but please hold back on the positions I hold..... When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........

The criticisms against NCBA I posted were what I thought the local feelings would be--And I think I'm right, nobody knows where NCBA even sits now- and the membership recruitment show of last week left everything even more in question ....I have had a chance to talk to several local producers and NCBA members since then- and I still say the same thing-- most have no idea where Stokes and the Texas President are coming from in their speaches (smartest thing is they left Stokes off the TV show)-- it wasn't what came out of the convention the first of the year.....There is a feeling that the Texas feeders and packers are overiding the NCBA total membership wishes-- that and the NCBA's amicus filings against the R-CALF suit will not help the NCBA in one bit--most I hear say, let it go to trial and let a Judge decide.... several members I talked to that had repaid dues now think they have got the snowjob- for the last time.........

OT, I did not SAY you ARE corrupt, nor did I say that you may be corrupt BECAUSE you are a sheriff, judge, brand inspector. I can't recall which thread that was in, so do not have the actual comments to go on here. What I DID say is that you are surely at least as LIKELY to be corrupt as the NCBA leaders who were accused of corruption. I wanted you to understand how that accusation felt. I believe you were involved in perpetuating that thought, if you were not the one making the allegation.

You are being cute with words here, OT, as in the second definition: clever or shrewd. You imply that for a family to "have enough money to have ownership in a bank" somehow makes that family deserving of your feelings of criticism, which you so kindly suppress. How big of you! You probably wouldn't have a clue of understanding the multi-generational family decisions that they would make the real sacrifices necessary to build and keep that bank a viable hometown controlled bank serving the community. I think I made it quite clear that I was basing that statement on things you have said in past posts, and more so on the baseless claims that NCBA leaders were corrupt. You stretch quite a distance in claiming I tarnished all those who got you your positions. I certainly intended only you and those who shared in the smear of NCBA leaders.

It is interesting you now say "what I THOUGHT the local feelings would be". Didn't you previously say it was what locals TOLD you their feelings were? So you add mind reading to your list of talents. I'm jealous!

Anyone who wants to know can easily find out where NCBA stands, IF you really want to know that. Finding fault with NCBA is your favorite pastime on this site, it seems quite clear, so it seems reasonable to find your criticism baseless. How can you reasonably call that program a membership recruitment show. Clearly, more time was spent in giving the information on BSE, with normal time for commercials given to very modest and straightforward membership recruitment. Quite the far cry from every sale barn in SD spending so much of their time giving the hard sell pitch for membership in R-CALF, BTW.

IF there are NCBA "members having trouble figuring out where leaders are coming from in their speeches", they are surely welcome to get on the website, or call them and ask! Where they are "coming from" is working to achieve the directives of the members given to them at the convention. Sorry if that doesn't set well with you. But it is your loss. There has been no deviation from "what came out of the convention", that I have seen. Share the details if you believe you are right on that, and we will see if you have a point. How do you think the TX feeders can "override the total membership when TOTAL feeder membership is less than one third, and cow-calf members are two thirds of the member totals.

BTW, what, specifically, has Terry Stokes done that you do not like, other than breathe, that is.

I know, I know.....you really don't want the amicus brief NCBA filed to show that R-CALF is NOT speaking for all cattle producers after all. There is that darn NCBA with their 26,000+ cattle owner members, plus their multiple state affiliate members who say you are NOT speaking for us.

I am really sorry for any NCBA members who might feel as you claim your friends do. I don't understand how any member who is paying attention, talking to his state officers (at least the officers who are directors on the NCBA board), and reading NCBA paper and magazine, even calling the officers and staff, can fail to know leaders are doing what they are supposed to be as directed at the convention. I can't help but wonder if that isn't a bogus deal someone has dreamed up there.

I'm still convinced that anyone claiming NCBA leaders are corrupt are way off base making such allegations with no basis for such, and well deserve to be called on it.

MRJ

MRJ

Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:55 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frenchie, based on what I have read and/or heard spoken by the two individuals over the past few years, IMO it is far more likely that the sheriff/brand inspector is the corrupted person that it is that the NCBA president is.

OT, I'm sorry it is a foreign concept to some individuals for an organization to live by, and to request and expect government agencies to also live and act based upon science, honesty and accuracy.

NCBA's actions are well within the mandate from the members. It's really irrelevant whether or not you understand and believe that. The NCBA members are running the show, whether you believe it or not.

MRJ
----------------------------------------------
Sure looks to me like you are calling the position "sheriff/brand inspector" corrupt---just because I questioned where the NCBA's presidents loyalties stand....Does that mean you are "corrupt" because you question the South Dakota Livestock barns loyalties and motives :???:

OT, many times you have identified yourself as "sheriff" or "brand inspector". I believe that if someone asked on this site, "who is the sheriff or the brand inspector, most would come up with "Oldtimer".

You forgot to post the part where NCBA leaders were called "corrupt". That is clearly character assination clearly far more than simply questionning their "loyalties", I'm sure reasonable people would agree. I do question their loyalties, with good reason: their at least weekly diatribes, aka "market reports" full of distortions, innuendo, and outright lies about NCBA, USDA,and packers, all intended to lure ranchers into the R-CALF fold, as evidenced by the mantra: "Join the outfit that is working for you" following their outrageous claims.

MRJ

 

[Anonymous]

MRJ-- Been too busy moving cows and working fences to answer your post of last week calling me corrupt, since you posted I must be corrupt since I'm an ex Sheriff, ---- a brand inspector and a Judge and I do not agree with the same ideology that NCBA's leadership has been perpetrating (if anyone knows what that is) but I do have a little time tonight.....Don't know which of the above reasons makes me corrupt since if you look back at the post I didn't call anybody corrupt, but questioned the idealogy of NCBA's President........

Anyway I sometimes have the same feelings about bank owners- but suppress them-wouldn't be right to criticize a person just because they have enough money to have an ownership in a bank, would it?....Criticize me all you want by name- but please hold back on the positions I hold..... When you criticize them you criticize the people that have appointed or elected me to represent them and that bothers me....None of these positions were "bought" into........

The criticisms against NCBA I posted were what I thought the local feelings would be--And I think I'm right, nobody knows where NCBA even sits now- and the membership recruitment show of last week left everything even more in question ....I have had a chance to talk to several local producers and NCBA members since then- and I still say the same thing-- most have no idea where Stokes and the Texas President are coming from in their speaches (smartest thing is they left Stokes off the TV show)-- it wasn't what came out of the convention the first of the year.....There is a feeling that the Texas feeders and packers are overiding the NCBA total membership wishes-- that and the NCBA's amicus filings against the R-CALF suit will not help the NCBA in one bit--most I hear say, let it go to trial and let a Judge decide.... several members I talked to that had repaid dues now think they have got the snowjob- for the last time.........

OT, I did not SAY you ARE corrupt, nor did I say that you may be corrupt BECAUSE you are a sheriff, judge, brand inspector. I can't recall which thread that was in, so do not have the actual comments to go on here. What I DID say is that you are surely at least as LIKELY to be corrupt as the NCBA leaders who were accused of corruption. I wanted you to understand how that accusation felt. I believe you were involved in perpetuating that thought, if you were not the one making the allegation.

You are being cute with words here, OT, as in the second definition: clever or shrewd. You imply that for a family to "have enough money to have ownership in a bank" somehow makes that family deserving of your feelings of criticism, which you so kindly suppress. How big of you! You probably wouldn't have a clue of understanding the multi-generational family decisions that they would make the real sacrifices necessary to build and keep that bank a viable hometown controlled bank serving the community. I think I made it quite clear that I was basing that statement on things you have said in past posts, and more so on the baseless claims that NCBA leaders were corrupt. You stretch quite a distance in claiming I tarnished all those who got you your positions. I certainly intended only you and those who shared in the smear of NCBA leaders.

It is interesting you now say "what I THOUGHT the local feelings would be". Didn't you previously say it was what locals TOLD you their feelings were? So you add mind reading to your list of talents. I'm jealous!

Anyone who wants to know can easily find out where NCBA stands, IF you really want to know that. Finding fault with NCBA is your favorite pastime on this site, it seems quite clear, so it seems reasonable to find your criticism baseless. How can you reasonably call that program a membership recruitment show. Clearly, more time was spent in giving the information on BSE, with normal time for commercials given to very modest and straightforward membership recruitment. Quite the far cry from every sale barn in SD spending so much of their time giving the hard sell pitch for membership in R-CALF, BTW.

IF there are NCBA "members having trouble figuring out where leaders are coming from in their speeches", they are surely welcome to get on the website, or call them and ask! Where they are "coming from" is working to achieve the directives of the members given to them at the convention. Sorry if that doesn't set well with you. But it is your loss. There has been no deviation from "what came out of the convention", that I have seen. Share the details if you believe you are right on that, and we will see if you have a point. How do you think the TX feeders can "override the total membership when TOTAL feeder membership is less than one third, and cow-calf members are two thirds of the member totals.

BTW, what, specifically, has Terry Stokes done that you do not like, other than breathe, that is.

I know, I know.....you really don't want the amicus brief NCBA filed to show that R-CALF is NOT speaking for all cattle producers after all. There is that darn NCBA with their 26,000+ cattle owner members, plus their multiple state affiliate members who say you are NOT speaking for us.

I am really sorry for any NCBA members who might feel as you claim your friends do. I don't understand how any member who is paying attention, talking to his state officers (at least the officers who are directors on the NCBA board), and reading NCBA paper and magazine, even calling the officers and staff, can fail to know leaders are doing what they are supposed to be as directed at the convention. I can't help but wonder if that isn't a bogus deal someone has dreamed up there.

I'm still convinced that anyone claiming NCBA leaders are corrupt are way off base making such allegations with no basis for such, and well deserve to be called on it.

MRJ

MRJ

Well "banker" (since you have posted on here many times of your multigenerational bank ownership and inheritance)-- You go back to that NCBA thread and you find where I or anyone called NCBA or their president corrupt---You're dreaming....It was frenchie that asked if the NCBA president was corrupt- I find nowhere that anyone answered it.............Your reading comprehension makes me question all these reported NCBA dispersions you complain about being on the South Dakota radio ads .......Maybe rancher is right- the black helicopters are flocking up over South Dakota............

 

[mrj]

Well "banker" (since you have posted on here many times of your multigenerational bank ownership and inheritance)-- You go back to that NCBA thread and you find where I or anyone called NCBA or their president corrupt---You're dreaming....It was frenchie that asked if the NCBA president was corrupt- I find nowhere that anyone answered it.............Your reading comprehension makes me question all these reported NCBA dispersions you complain about being on the South Dakota radio ads .......Maybe rancher is right- the black helicopters are flocking up over South Dakota............

Guess I could have saved quite a little time on here had I asked you for the name of the thread where I supposedly called you corrupt. I have never claimed exact recall and try to look up anything needing strict accuracy.

So, the fact is that after you cast aspersions on NCBA leaders by questionning if their allegiance was more to the Texas Cattle feeders than to the national NCBA cattle producer members.

Frenchie replied to that comment you made by asking you if you were saying those leaders were corrupt.

You never answered that question, leaving the impression that you did believe that.

Going by posts you have made, and by what I know of the character of those leaders, I feel it more likely for you to be a corrupt person than for themto be. That is some different than saying that you are corrupt, IMO, but I am sorry if it hurt your feelings.

BTW, I have certainly not been the person who brought up my families' involvement in a banking business. It was first brought as an accusation against me, and has been repeated as such several times. While I am proud of the successful community serving business that the dozens of owners and the excellent officers and staff have made it, the bank has not been an unmixed blessing, the remarks made against me on this site being just a sample of the down side.

re. my reading comprehension......it is just fine! The post was several days past and I should have checked it for certain. I did have the gist of it accurate. Unless you say that your not answering the question was not an indication that you believed they were corrupt.

You certainly can believe what I have said about those radio ads, and surely you have read posts by others corroborating my comments on them. I will try to share some of the exact quotes as soon as time permits. It is very slow work typing them off the tapes.

MRJ

 

[HAY MAKER]

Well "banker" (since you have posted on here many times of your multigenerational bank ownership and inheritance)-- You go back to that NCBA thread and you find where I or anyone called NCBA or their president corrupt---You're dreaming....It was frenchie that asked if the NCBA president was corrupt- I find nowhere that anyone answered it.............Your reading comprehension makes me question all these reported NCBA dispersions you complain about being on the South Dakota radio ads .......Maybe rancher is right- the black helicopters are flocking up over South Dakota............

Guess I could have saved quite a little time on here had I asked you for the name of the thread where I supposedly called you corrupt. I have never claimed exact recall and try to look up anything needing strict accuracy.

So, the fact is that after you cast aspersions on NCBA leaders by questionning if their allegiance was more to the Texas Cattle feeders than to the national NCBA cattle producer members.

Frenchie replied to that comment you made by asking you if you were saying those leaders were corrupt.

You never answered that question, leaving the impression that you did believe that.

Going by posts you have made, and by what I know of the character of those leaders, I feel it more likely for you to be a corrupt person than for themto be. That is some different than saying that you are corrupt, IMO, but I am sorry if it hurt your feelings.

BTW, I have certainly not been the person who brought up my families' involvement in a banking business. It was first brought as an accusation against me, and has been repeated as such several times. While I am proud of the successful community serving business that the dozens of owners and the excellent officers and staff have made it, the bank has not been an unmixed blessing, the remarks made against me on this site being just a sample of the down side.

re. my reading comprehension......it is just fine! The post was several days past and I should have checked it for certain. I did have the gist of it accurate. Unless you say that your not answering the question was not an indication that you believed they were corrupt.

You certainly can believe what I have said about those radio ads, and surely you have read posts by others corroborating my comments on them.

I will try to share some of the exact quotes as soon as time permits. It is very slow work typing them off the tapes.

MRJ

That will be great Maxine I can hardly wait ,and in return I will share several stories that a good journalist wrote we call him Lee............good luck

 

[mrj]

[


That will be great Maxine I can hardly wait ,and in return I will share several stories that a good journalist wrote we call him Lee............good luck

Hopefully you can find another journalist named Lee that is a good one. Good journalists do not write things that are not true like the last "Lee" you pasted onto ranchersnet does.

MRJ