mCOOL costs

[QUESTION]

It seems some on here think blaming is the way to fix problems. But that is far from the truth. The US based packer have wanted to import S.A. way before BSE the R group helped the border stay closed. Thus they had to find another sorce to feed the US market or lose share to other meats so by keeping the border closed the R group helped the packers speed up the imports of S.A. beef.Way to guys. :roll:
Many on here don't see what is the reality. Trade is now global and that isn't going to change so what to do? Well trade fairly or someone else will take your place, just look at how australia has taken the export mart for beef. Why no attacks on them? As far as shutting of the taps on oil to the US that is funny , because like beef the US only produces enough oil to supply 30% of it's needs. And oil officals from the US were up in calgary this spring trying to get commitments for increased canadian production. I like what enbridge did to the chinese, basically they told chinese officials that if they want more canadian oil, and want a pipeline built to the west coast that they have to start letting canadian beef in. Hold their feet to the fire . Way to go guys! So as for oil, natural gas and hydro there are others wanting acess to the oil sands. So you guys might get your wish of not buying canadian eneryg and sorces. You guys can buy more middle east oil we all know how well that is going. Just some food for thought there is more oil in the alberta/saskatchewan oil sands that the entire middle east but it costs a bit more the get it out of the sand, because of labor costs and you can"t bribe officials as easily. But nobody it shooting at you or trying to blow you up. Take a real look at the bigger picture.

 

[Sandhusker]

Q, "Thus they had to find another sorce to feed the US market or lose share to other meats so by keeping the border closed the R group helped the packers speed up the imports of S.A. beef.Way to guys."

You have any numbers to back that opinion?

 

[RobertMac]

What I'm getting at is that we have an opportunity to work on this together, rather than spending time and resources scrapping with each other. Cheap South American beef will hurt all of us. We all agree on that. So why are we ignoring it? Tunnel vision on the part of a certain group of vocal _______ (fill in the blanks according to which side of the fence you're on :wink: ) insisting on calling singular attention to Canadian imports, when the real problem is lining up to come in from the south.

I have a pretty good idea that the nitpickers at the CFIA will not be happy with the FMD potential in South American beef. If you guys aren't happy with the USDA, then get these guys on board. :!:

A couple of weeks ago a load of pigs was sent to a plant in the U.S. that turned out to have some sort of virus that had symptoms resembling FMD. They were quarantined until they could run lab work and confirm it was nothing serious, but in the meantime it caused quite a fuss up here. It's got the CFIA in no mood to mess around with anything that could allow it to really happen.

People here were forced to address the scenarios that would take place if such a disease ever did get into either of our countries, and it was :shock: :shock: not a pretty picture! :shock: :shock: :shock: They had visions of putting newborn piglets through wood chippers because that would be the only way to handle how many would have to be euthanized. They also said that the borders would be closed both ways to cattle, sheep, pigs, and all their meat products, so slaughtering them wouldn't even help because there is no where to send the meat. This would be a disaster that would put the BSE crisis in the small leagues in comparison.

I would think that there is pressure going on behind the scenes right now between the CFIA and USDA that we are not aware of. If you did go ahead and import from a FMD country, the boys at the CFIA would likely be putting pressure to close the border to American beef. If they aren't, then they should be. Unlike your USDA, the livestock industry also gets listened to by the CFIA a bit better, so if you do start importing potentially infected beef, our cattle organizations will be putting pressure on as well. We can't afford another disaster.

Our government is a lot smaller than yours, and has less resources, and I doubt they are willing to accept the social costs of such a disaster. They've run the numbers, and they know the consequences.

:shock: :shock: not a pretty picture! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Kato, your FMD scenario is how many USA cattle producers see the BSE scenario. USDA's policy has always been to block products at the border that pose a disease risk to our food supply. As Sandhusker points out, they did this with the first 22 countries that found BSE, but it changed because the companies that influence the USDA control the beef industry in both our countries. We only have the USDA surveillance to tell us if we have a BSE problem here, but whether we have a problem is not the issue...preventing a problem is. If USA producers allow USDA to relax BSE policy for Canada, it will open the door for relaxing FMD policy.

On the other side of this issue, I think the USA should be doing everything we can to help Canada find the cause of your BSE problem and I don't think near enough is being done. I think we are being sold a bill of goods that MBM is the root of the problem and I think your post feed ban cases prove that.

 

[RobertMac]

Thus they had to find another sorce to feed the US market or lose share to other meats so by keeping the border closed the R group helped the packers speed up the imports of S.A. beef.

Q, the companies that control your beef industry and our beef industry don't lose market share to the "other meats"....THEY ARE THE OTHER MEATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mrj]

Silly me! I thought the CONSUMER control which meat they eat. I thought showing CONSUMERS that beef is safe and wholesome, as well as tasty might have SOME effect on which meats are chosen.

mrj

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

:shock: :shock: not a pretty picture! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Kato, your FMD scenario is how many USA cattle producers see the BSE scenario. USDA's policy has always been to block products at the border that pose a disease risk to our food supply. As Sandhusker points out, they did this with the first 22 countries that found BSE, but it changed because the companies that influence the USDA control the beef industry in both our countries. We only have the USDA surveillance to tell us if we have a BSE problem here, but whether we have a problem is not the issue...preventing a problem is. If USA producers allow USDA to relax BSE policy for Canada, it will open the door for relaxing FMD policy.

On the other side of this issue, I think the USA should be doing everything we can to help Canada find the cause of your BSE problem and I don't think near enough is being done. I think we are being sold a bill of goods that MBM is the root of the problem and I think your post feed ban cases prove that.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something here, but I do not understand why some of you think that Canada needs "help" from the U.S. on finding the cause of "our" BSE, as you so indelicately stated it, RM.

I agree that co-operation will help get to the root of the issue more quickly, but from your response, I get the sense that you are failing to acknowledge the extent of the presence of BSE in your own herd.

However, the U.S. is clearly far behind Canada in its efforts to eradicate the disease. Since our beef industries are so closely related, I would hope that the USA catches up to our practices because failing to do so will jeopardize both of our enterprises.

As far as your comment as to the relationship of MBM to the spread of the disease, I fully agree that there is probably far more to this issue than what is known or publicly acknowledged.

Many on here have made extremely unkind remarks about the postulations of Kathy and others , but wouldn't the dissenters look pretty sick if their theories were eventually found to be correct, as they may well be?

 

[Anonymous]

Silly me! I thought the CONSUMER control which meat they eat. I thought showing CONSUMERS that beef is safe and wholesome, as well as tasty might have SOME effect on which meats are chosen.

mrj

Probably does-- and last week when FDA testified to Congress that they (FDA/USDA/Homeland Security/Government) can not inspect or test or guarantee the wholesomeness or safety of even 99% of imported food products-- they opened the door right up more to demand for USA products-- which the US consumer recognizes as much more safer and wholesome than some foreign countries exports....

 

[Bill]

What I'm getting at is that we have an opportunity to work on this together, rather than spending time and resources scrapping with each other. Cheap South American beef will hurt all of us. We all agree on that. So why are we ignoring it? Tunnel vision on the part of a certain group of vocal _______ (fill in the blanks according to which side of the fence you're on :wink: ) insisting on calling singular attention to Canadian imports, when the real problem is lining up to come in from the south.

I have a pretty good idea that the nitpickers at the CFIA will not be happy with the FMD potential in South American beef. If you guys aren't happy with the USDA, then get these guys on board. :!:

A couple of weeks ago a load of pigs was sent to a plant in the U.S. that turned out to have some sort of virus that had symptoms resembling FMD. They were quarantined until they could run lab work and confirm it was nothing serious, but in the meantime it caused quite a fuss up here. It's got the CFIA in no mood to mess around with anything that could allow it to really happen.

People here were forced to address the scenarios that would take place if such a disease ever did get into either of our countries, and it was :shock: :shock: not a pretty picture! :shock: :shock: :shock: They had visions of putting newborn piglets through wood chippers because that would be the only way to handle how many would have to be euthanized. They also said that the borders would be closed both ways to cattle, sheep, pigs, and all their meat products, so slaughtering them wouldn't even help because there is no where to send the meat. This would be a disaster that would put the BSE crisis in the small leagues in comparison.

I would think that there is pressure going on behind the scenes right now between the CFIA and USDA that we are not aware of. If you did go ahead and import from a FMD country, the boys at the CFIA would likely be putting pressure to close the border to American beef. If they aren't, then they should be. Unlike your USDA, the livestock industry also gets listened to by the CFIA a bit better, so if you do start importing potentially infected beef, our cattle organizations will be putting pressure on as well. We can't afford another disaster.

Our government is a lot smaller than yours, and has less resources, and I doubt they are willing to accept the social costs of such a disaster. They've run the numbers, and they know the consequences.

:shock: :shock: not a pretty picture! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Kato, your FMD scenario is how many USA cattle producers see the BSE scenario. USDA's policy has always been to block products at the border that pose a disease risk to our food supply. As Sandhusker points out, they did this with the first 22 countries that found BSE, but it changed because the companies that influence the USDA control the beef industry in both our countries. We only have the USDA surveillance to tell us if we have a BSE problem here, but whether we have a problem is not the issue...preventing a problem is. If USA producers allow USDA to relax BSE policy for Canada, it will open the door for relaxing FMD policy.

On the other side of this issue, I think the USA should be doing everything we can to help Canada find the cause of your BSE problem and I don't think near enough is being done. I think we are being sold a bill of goods that MBM is the root of the problem and I think your post feed ban cases prove that.

Is this a typical US response regarding BSE or what:

"whether we have a problem is not the issue[/b]..........I think the USA should be doing everything we can to help Canada find the cause of your BSE problem and I don't think near enough is being done."

:roll:

YOU WERE CAUGHT HIDING IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Only a complete fool would fail to recognize the US has s PROBLEM and would believe that you have only 3 cases with your feeding practices and infractions within that size of a cowherd.

Whether we have a problem is not the ISSUE?

So what really is the issue then RMac? The R-Klanners here use the excuse that the border needs to be closed until the extent of BSE within the US herd is discovered and dealt with.

But now you say that's not the reason? :roll: As if we didn't know that all along. :shock:

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

-- they opened the door right up more to demand for USA products-- which the US consumer recognizes as much more safer and wholesome than some foreign countries exports....

Which they will continue to think until they understand that they have up until the present already consumed at least 2600 head of your BSE-ridden cattle.....

....and then face the prospect of having to eat even more in the future since you still have numerous ways of feeding those BSE infected SRMs back to your bovine herd....

....because the U.S. has actually reduced its already severely faulty and inadequate surveillance system....

.... that depended on the incorrect test on the incorrect part of the cow's brain....

Talk about building consumer confidence....

What will a MacDonald's franchise in the U.S. be worth in 5 to 10 years when all those BSE-ridden old cows of yours will have been found to be contaminating their hamburgers?

Try playing catch-up then....

 

[Kato]

Kato, your FMD scenario is how many USA cattle producers see the BSE scenario. USDA's policy has always been to block products at the border that pose a disease risk to our food supply. As Sandhusker points out, they did this with the first 22 countries that found BSE, but it changed because the companies that influence the USDA control the beef industry in both our countries. We only have the USDA surveillance to tell us if we have a BSE problem here, but whether we have a problem is not the issue...preventing a problem is. If USA producers allow USDA to relax BSE policy for Canada, it will open the door for relaxing FMD policy.

They did not change it because the companies that influence the USDA control the beef industry in both our countries. They changed it because BSE was found in your country, and they were trying to make regaining your export markets possible.

Comparing FMD to BSE is apples to oranges. You cannot spread BSE by walking through a feedlot with boots that walked through an infected pen a week earlier. You cannot spread BSE on truck tires. BSE does not blow on the wind from hog farms to cattle farms to sheep farms. You cannot spread BSE by feeding restaurant waste with a bit of of foreign sausage in it to a pig. You can spread FMD like that, and it has happened. This is how the British outbreak happened not that long ago.

When the outbreak happened in Britain, a lady from near here went home to visit. When she got back to Canada, she had to spend a couple of weeks in the city, and decontaminate all her luggage and clothing before she was allowed back to her farm. This is after being in a country that had the disease, even though she never saw livestock when she was there.

The troubles don't end in the livestock industry either. In Britain, hunting was stopped, tourism was brought to a halt, and travel in the country was severely restricted. Auctions sales shut down, no livestock shows or country fairs, and if you wanted to go to town, you disinfected your truck as you left your yard, and when you returned. There were gates put up at the end of lanes going to farms, and no visitors were allowed.

Does it sound like fun yet? :roll: :roll: :roll:

How can a disease this virulent be contained in a country like Argentina just by segregating areas and making assurances? With BSE, as long as you are complying with the feedban and removing SRM's in the appropriate manner, it is not going to spread. Period.

If you want a good idea of how life could be like, check out this link.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/UK/04/11/fandm.timeline/

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, "They did not change it because the companies that influence the USDA control the beef industry in both our countries. They changed it because BSE was found in your country, and they were trying to make regaining your export markets possible."

You're still in denial, Kato. BSE was found again in Canada in May 2003. We opened up for boneless beef in August, 2003. The Washington cow was found in December 2003.

 

[Kato]

They knew full well that if it was here, it is in the U.S. also. I think maybe those who refuse to admit it's presence in your country are the ones who are in denial.

Who knows, maybe the Texas cow that was only tested after the auditor general (or whatever you call it down there) found it wasn't the only one????? After all, she wasn't tested until it was forced to happen. Could be that they could see the *&^* was about to hit the fan and they wanted to be prepared.

 

[MoGal]

As far as BSE, you can see the USDA does not want individual testing. They want to have the authority to pick and choose and not allow individuals to test. It will eventually change, but it takes time, money and lawsuits (which are already being done).

I would think you all would embrace the fact that beef would be segregated, and that your Canadian beef will be on labels instead of it being mixed and called a USA product?? Many of you all seem disgruntled about it and why?? The meat is already labeled from country of origin (boxed) or branded if live so there shouldn't be added cost on your producer end should there?

I am not against trade at all, but the USA has been operating at a trade DEFICIT for the last 30 years and its time we have equal, fair trade.

 

[Sandhusker]

Kato, "They knew full well that if it was here, it is in the U.S. also."

If that's the case, you have a scenario where the USDA, the agency charged with protecting the nation's food supply and herd health, had knowledge of a potentially deadly and industry wracking disease on our soil but instead of the concerns charged them concentrated instead on the trade aspect. Congratulations, Kato, that's pretty much in line with what R-CALF has been saying all along. Welcome aboard.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I am not against trade at all, but the USA has been operating at a trade DEFICIT for the last 30 years and its time we have equal, fair trade.

You have FAIR trade right now. Actually more than fair. Canada has granted the US concessions in wheat, livestock AND softwood lumber that should have never been granted, given the intent of our free trade agreement.

As for equal trade, what do you want? For Canada to suddenly grow a few hundred million more people? :roll: For crying out loud, lets start using some common sense here. The USA is the most consumer driven society in the world, and you have a large population, with insufficient natural resources to match the demands of your populace. Should your people go hungry because you want dollar for dollar equal trade with a country 1/100th your size? :roll:

Rod

 

[Bill]

I am not against trade at all, but the USA has been operating at a trade DEFICIT for the last 30 years and its time we have equal, fair trade.

You have FAIR trade right now. Actually more than fair. Canada has granted the US concessions in wheat, livestock AND softwood lumber that should have never been granted, given the intent of our free trade agreement.

As for equal trade, what do you want? For Canada to suddenly grow a few hundred million more people? :roll: For crying out loud, lets start using some common sense here. The USA is the most consumer driven society in the world, and you have a large population, with insufficient natural resources to match the demands of your populace. Should your people go hungry because you want dollar for dollar equal trade with a country 1/100th your size? :roll:

Rod

:lol: :lol: :lol: According to some here Rod the answer is a resounding YES!

As it is right now CANADA is in a severe trade deficit with the US if one considers we have 1/10th the population. Pull out the Canadian trade and the US economy would be even worse.

 

[RobertMac]

Kato, your FMD scenario is how many USA cattle producers see the BSE scenario.

What I meant is that both have the potential to be catastrophic to N.A. cattle industry and both should be dealt with as such.

They knew full well that if it was here, it is in the U.S. also.

If BSE is in the USA to the extent some of you Canadians hope it to be, more cases would have been found even with our less than adequate testing protocol. It would involve too many folks to keep such a large conspiracy under wraps! :roll:

 

[RobertMac]

Bill, the real issue is finding the cause of BSE...like, what if your post feed-ban BSE cases didn't result from a feed-ban problem?
If you get a cut, deciding which band-aid to use is not going to prevent you from getting another cut!

By the way, what does your buddy, Dittmer, think of the extent of the USA's BSE problem?????? :shock: 8)

 

[Maple Leaf Angus]

If BSE is in the USA to the extent some of you Canadians hope it to be, more cases would have been found even with our less than adequate testing protocol. It would involve too many folks to keep such a large conspiracy under wraps! :roll:

I don't know of any who "hope" that the U.S. has large numbers of BSE infected cattle. It is a matter of anyone who has the slightest shred of objectivity must question the peculiar lack of findings in the U.S. herd when our respective herds and management practices have so much commonality in breeding and feeding.

RobertMac, you seem to be a thinking type of person. Why have you not challenged Terry's figures of the rate of infectivity in your herd?

Perhaps your curious silence is reflective of the American approach to your BSE problem - let sleeping dogs lie.

As far as the "conspiracy" theory, well, it need not be a "conspiracy" at all. Never underestimate the impact of lethargy combined with gross inefficiency.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

If BSE is in the USA to the extent some of you Canadians hope it to be, more cases would have been found even with our less than adequate testing protocol. It would involve too many folks to keep such a large conspiracy under wraps! :roll:

RM, as MLA said, you are a thinking person. You need to look at the US's testing protocols and numbers before you make such a statement. If Canada had an equal herd size to the US, we would have tested 20 TIMES as many animals as the US did. As it was, we only found 7 or 8 times as many infected animals. So its not remotely surprising that the US hasn't found more cases of BSE.

Rod