mCOOL costs

[Sandhusker]

If BSE is in the USA to the extent some of you Canadians hope it to be, more cases would have been found even with our less than adequate testing protocol. It would involve too many folks to keep such a large conspiracy under wraps! :roll:

RM, as MLA said, you are a thinking person. You need to look at the US's testing protocols and numbers before you make such a statement. If Canada had an equal herd size to the US, we would have tested 20 TIMES as many animals as the US did. As it was, we only found 7 or 8 times as many infected animals. So its not remotely surprising that the US hasn't found more cases of BSE.

Rod

Then again, I've read here from a Canadian that your cases came from one Canadian feed mill. If that's the case, and you can't have it both ways, it would not be surprising to not find any more cases in the US.

 

[RobertMac]

MLA, there is a reason, I don't have the time to read Terry's post and I bypass most. Although I did look at the one about Japan's TSE deaths...about 1.5 per million. I may be wrong, but I would think that, that rate, makes it a rare cause of death.

I work with 'grunt level' USDA personnel every week...they are good people. I don't believe your cover-up theories. But then, I don't believe our governments are on the right road to a solution. Mark Purdey?

 

[Bill]

Bill, the real issue is finding the cause of BSE...like, what if your post feed-ban BSE cases didn't result from a feed-ban problem?
If you get a cut, deciding which band-aid to use is not going to prevent you from getting another cut!

By the way, what does your buddy, Dittmer, think of the extent of the USA's BSE problem?????? :shock: 8)

Whatever RMac. I suppose I could then ask what does your buddy Bullard think the extent of the USA's BSE problem is? :shock: :roll:

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Then again, I've read here from a Canadian that your cases came from one Canadian feed mill. If that's the case, and you can't have it both ways, it would not be surprising to not find any more cases in the US.

Except for the massive feed violations and recalls that have occurred on a monthly basis in the US. To believe that your BSE incidence rate is not as high as ours is simply burying your head in the sand and it will come back to haunt you, just as its done with every other country who ignored their BSE problem.

Rod

 

[Mike]

just as its done with every other country who ignored their BSE problem.

Rod

You mean like "Claude"? :lol:

Is Canada safe?
Canada actually imported a live cow with Mad Cow disease back in 1993. However, according to Dr. Claude Lavigne, an official from Canada's Food Inspection Agency (CFIA), Mad Cow disease is "a European Disease and that's about it."

 

[MoGal]

ISn't that part of the Canadiam producers lawsuit?? According to the Cattleman's Advocate 07/07 page 10 says, "Attorneys discover Canadian BSE case 10 years before government admitted it. A confirmed case documented in 1993 - a decade before Canadian health officials went public. Another issue Cameron Pallet, says, is 80 missing cattle. Agriculture Canada agreed to monitor the location of all British cattle imported into Canada since 1982, a group of 198 animals. The government said they had lost track of 80 head, prompting Pallet to say, "How can you lose track of 40 percent of what you're supposed to be monitoring?" He learned later that 68 of the missing cattle had been routinely slaughtered and entered the food chain and 12 were rendered into feed.

 

[MoGal]

Sorry, hit submit too soon.

Yes tracking and testing would be good, but your government couldn't track 80 cows??

According to Drovers editor Greg Henderson:

USDA's latest count (cow calf operations) finds 760,880 operations with at least 1 (one) cow but only 78,850 operations with 100 or more cows. Of the 33.5 million beef cows in the USA, 52.8 percent are in herds of 100 or more.

 

[Anonymous]

just as its done with every other country who ignored their BSE problem.

Rod

You mean like "Claude"? :lol:

Is Canada safe?
Canada actually imported a live cow with Mad Cow disease back in 1993. However, according to Dr. Claude Lavigne, an official from Canada's Food Inspection Agency (CFIA), Mad Cow disease is "a European Disease and that's about it."

Claude-- how fitting :wink: :lol: :lol: Sounds like him and our good Dr. S A N T A G E R T R U B I S have been consulting over too much Canadian Rye..... :wink: :lol: :lol:

 

[Mike]

just as its done with every other country who ignored their BSE problem.

Rod

You mean like "Claude"? :lol:

Is Canada safe?
Canada actually imported a live cow with Mad Cow disease back in 1993. However, according to Dr. Claude Lavigne, an official from Canada's Food Inspection Agency (CFIA), Mad Cow disease is "a European Disease and that's about it."

Claude-- how fitting :wink: :lol: :lol: Sounds like him and our good Dr. S A N T A G E R T R U B I S have been consulting over too much Canadian Rye..... :wink: :lol: :lol:

Another "Claude" quote:

However, last summer the European Commission released a report prepared by a panel of scientists saying that while it's unlikely the disease has reached Canada, the possibility cannot be ruled out.

The report notes that before 1992, "the Canadian system was extremely unstable." Among the risks: The surveillance for BSE-infected cows was "inappropriate" and meat and bone meal was fed to cattle. It wasn't until 1997 that a ban was placed on the feeding of bovine meat and bone meal to other cattle.

"As a result of the importation and subsequent (time-delayed) processing of some UK-cattle, BSE infectivity could have entered the Canadian system. Imports of MBM (meat and bone meal) could have added to this challenge and remain a certain (low-level) external challenge."

The report concludes that "a low-level domestic prevalence (of BSE-infected cattle) cannot therefore be fully excluded to exist since the early '90s."



Dr. Claude Lavigne, an expert in mad cow disease at CFIA, says it unfairly depicts the true nature of the risk in Canada.

"We feel that this report is wrong, that we are completely free. The risk of transmission in a country where the disease doesn't exist is zero. And that's our situation."

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Mike, on what dates did those quotes occur? Oddly enough they sound exactly the same as the USDA and R-Calf BEFORE your first native case of BSE was found... Are these quotes from before we started enacting appropriate measures?

MoGal, you must be relatives of OT as your hypocrisy is staggering. You guys couldn't track a single lousy cow except to say it "came from Alabama" :roll: As for the lawsuit, at least Canadian cattlemen are trying to hold someone accountable for the BSE that hit our country from foreign shores. Its too bad R-Calf wouldn't do the same, instead of spending their members money on a protectionist suit.

As I said, we're not trying to hide it, and we're trying to fix it. It appears to me as though you guys at least on this forum are perfectly content to stuff your heads in the sand.

Rod

 

[Anonymous]

As for the lawsuit, at least Canadian cattlemen are trying to hold someone accountable for the BSE that hit our country from foreign shores. Its too bad R-Calf wouldn't do the same, instead of spending their members money on a protectionist suit.

Not much difference-- You guys are suing your government demanding to know answers about BSE- and asking the courts for help for the Canadian cattlemen--R-CALF is suing our government demanding to know answers about BSE and asking the courts for help for the US cattlemen.....
R-CALF has just gone one step further and asked for the courts assistance in not allowing the USDA to make the same mistakes Canadians are now suing their government for making -- so that we won't have to be having an after the fact suit 10 years down the line like you are......

The real shame is its too bad Canada didn't have an R-CALF type organization back in the 90's to fight for them and keep out the UK/European cattle/products....

 

[Sandhusker]

Rod, "As for the lawsuit, at least Canadian cattlemen are trying to hold someone accountable for the BSE that hit our country from foreign shores. Its too bad R-Calf wouldn't do the same, instead of spending their members money on a protectionist suit."


R-CALF's lawsuit is exactly as you suggest - trying to hold somebody accountable and you call it "protectionist"! Come on, Rod! In order to call the lawsuit "protectionist", you have to pretend that the zero tolerance policy was never used 22 times without fail, was never instituted in the first place and the recommendations by the panel of scientists never happened!

Our government told us BSE was nasty crap and we would have to do this and that to protect all of us and they did exactly as they said they would UNTIL Canada found it. Then their whole story changed overnight and we, the people who could lose everything if they're wrong, are just supposed to nod and say "Well, you probably know what you're doing"? That's what you guys did and look where it got you.

 

[MoGal]

Look, I'm not saying the producers are wrong for suing the Canadian government. Personally, I hope you all win big time and then perhaps your government will see that their producers are serious about wanting to eradicate BSE not cover it up.

There was mention on pg 7 that we should have better tracking methods here in the US and I simply brought it up that your government lost 80 cows and yet you think our government should track 33.5 million?

I agree there should be more BSE testing.... the USDA should not have sole discretion of who can or cannot test for it here in the USA.

Canada needs to step up its BSE testing so they can eradicate the problem, but unfortunately its like a loose woman, even though she may change her lifestyle, someone is always going to be around that will bring up her past. Until you all can go 3 years or 5 years without a case and until your government gets serious about eradicating the problem then someone is always gonna bring it up.

Anyway this thread is about MCool costs, there will be some in this country that will prefer Canadian beef and some who will prefer Australian. I say good for them, purchase whatever they want of it. At least the American people will have a choice and the packers won't be able to deceive anymore.

 

[Kato]

However, last summer the European Commission released a report prepared by a panel of scientists saying that while it's unlikely the disease has reached Canada, the possibility cannot be ruled out.

The report notes that before 1992, "the Canadian system was extremely unstable." Among the risks: The surveillance for BSE-infected cows was "inappropriate" and meat and bone meal was fed to cattle. It wasn't until 1997 that a ban was placed on the feeding of bovine meat and bone meal to other cattle.

"As a result of the importation and subsequent (time-delayed) processing of some UK-cattle, BSE infectivity could have entered the Canadian system. Imports of MBM (meat and bone meal) could have added to this challenge and remain a certain (low-level) external challenge."

The report concludes that "a low-level domestic prevalence (of BSE-infected cattle) cannot therefore be fully excluded to exist since the early '90s."

I believe this is very similar to what the assessment said for the U.S.

As for stepping up our testing, we're way ahead of what's required, and we're testing the highest risk animals as well.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

There was mention on pg 7 that we should have better tracking methods here in the US and I simply brought it up that your government lost 80 cows and yet you think our government should track 33.5 million?

So you're comparing our 80 head that were imported BEFORE we had a tracking system to the way your system is NOW with NO way to track animals back to herd of origin and NO way to track birth cohorts? :roll:

Canada needs to step up its BSE testing so they can eradicate the problem, but unfortunately its like a loose woman, even though she may change her lifestyle, someone is always going to be around that will bring up her past. Until you all can go 3 years or 5 years without a case and until your government gets serious about eradicating the problem then someone is always gonna bring it up.

And theres the hypocrisy again. You guys test 1/20th the number of animals on a per capita basis, and yet you preach to US about testing? :roll: MoGal, you need to spend less time bitching about Canada and its beef and more time fixing your own defective system.

OT and Sandhusker,

You both need to read the suit. No where in it does the suit say that those animals should not have been imported. NO WHERE. What the suit is saying is that the government should have kept closer tabs on those animals knowing full well that they were coming from a BSE hot spot. On the other hand, R-Calf isn't even remotely trying to tell your government to keep tabs on animals that come with full IDs, but rather simply trying to enact a protectionist policy by saying they should close the border.

Apples and oranges gentlemen.

Sandhusker,

Your sense of timing is a little off. The US remained closed to Canadian live animals until well AFTER your first case of BSE was found. Then the USDA realized what everyone already knew: The US has BSE. Legally, your government knew they couldn't keep the border shut tight.

Rod

 

[Sandhusker]

Rod, "R-Calf isn't even remotely trying to tell your government to keep tabs on animals that come with full IDs, but rather simply trying to enact a protectionist policy by saying they should close the border. "

You're wrong. R-CALF is NOT saying shut the border forever.

Rod, "Your sense of timing is a little off. The US remained closed to Canadian live animals until well AFTER your first case of BSE was found. Then the USDA realized what everyone already knew: The US has BSE. Legally, your government knew they couldn't keep the border shut tight."

My timing is not off. We opened to boxed beef 4 months before that Washington cow. You're also wrong about legalities. The US Congress is the ONLY entity that can decide what is legal and what is not legal in regards to trade.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

My timing is not off. We opened to boxed beef 4 months before that Washington cow. You're also wrong about legalities. The US Congress is the ONLY entity that can decide what is legal and what is not legal in regards to trade.

I actually said "open to live animals", but there has never been any _accepted_ science that even remotely advocates closing a border to boneless boxed beef (which is what was opened up). The whole "we must be closed to any country with BSE" is hokey, BS science dreamt up by some idiot who over-reacted. And now R-Calf is spreading that garbage around.

As for the legalities, the US Congress (and by extension, the US people) joined the World Trade Organization long ago. Which means they knowingly placed themselves under certain rules and laws of conduct. Rules and laws of conduct which the US has had a hand in creating. You can't help create rules and laws of conduct, then decide that you suddenly don't want to follow them.

Rod

 

[RobertMac]

The whole "we must be closed to any country with BSE" is hokey, BS science dreamt up by some idiot who over-reacted.

Quarantine is one of the oldest and most effective tools for controlling the spread of a disease.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Quarantine is one of the oldest and most effective tools for controlling the spread of a disease.

Only in diseases are known and proven to be transmissible from live animal to live animal. BSE is NOT.

Rod

 

[Sandhusker]

My timing is not off. We opened to boxed beef 4 months before that Washington cow. You're also wrong about legalities. The US Congress is the ONLY entity that can decide what is legal and what is not legal in regards to trade.

I actually said "open to live animals", but there has never been any _accepted_ science that even remotely advocates closing a border to boneless boxed beef (which is what was opened up). The whole "we must be closed to any country with BSE" is hokey, BS science dreamt up by some idiot who over-reacted. And now R-Calf is spreading that garbage around.

As for the legalities, the US Congress (and by extension, the US people) joined the World Trade Organization long ago. Which means they knowingly placed themselves under certain rules and laws of conduct. Rules and laws of conduct which the US has had a hand in creating. You can't help create rules and laws of conduct, then decide that you suddenly don't want to follow them.

Rod

Hokey or not, that's how everybody does it.

The Constitution does not give Congress the authority to place themselves (and by extension, the US people) under the WTO. It's like you writing checks on my account. Membership in the WTO, as it is currently structured, would never survive a Constitutional challenge.