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Mineral Cost

badroute said:
in this area if we dont have a 1:1 ratio you will never keep up when it comes to keeping mineral in front of the cows.

Cows don't overeat phos. Thus on a 1:1 ratio they get the phos they need then stop while they may still be short on calcium or other minerals.
 
We are in a high calcium area so that really never becomes an issue. I know that cows won't overconsume phos. We HAVE to use a 1:1 mix to keep the consumption down. I have never really bought the whole "a cow eats only what it needs" theory. Most cows aren't much different than horses; if it's there to eat they will eat it period.
 
FH, indeed I haven't bought salt for a long time so haven't kept up with prices. :wink:

The 44 bags of mineral are about a year's supply for me, so I really don't want to buy any more than that at a time. I guess the last batch I bought in April '08 so not quite a year. This new batch I have is quite fresh. Jan 19 2009 mfg date on it.

I store the mineral in an old grain bin on a pallet to keep it off the floor. Some of the oldest bags on the bottom of the pile were a little stiff but when I poured the contents out of the bag there were no chunks that I couldn't simply squeeze in my hand and crumble to their original form.

I don't see the mineral itself ever going bad. I don't know about the shelf life of the vitamin package in it. IMO, the vitamins could lose potency over time.

Here at the home place I do have alkalai surface water and well water with high sodium content. Also artesian water with sodium. At my other place there isn't much alkalai and although I have never had the well water tested there really isn't anything in it. It's almost like spring water.
 
At risk of being deemed a lunatic I'll let you know my mineral/salt thoughts. Where we are, on the extreme western edge of the good black prairie soil, I suspect we have very low mineral needs. Everyone uses salt and minerals here but I wonder how much it's habit?
I grew up on land in Scotland that was highly leached due to a 56 inch rainfall and steep land with only a shallow soil layer over solid rock. Minerals there were an issue - if you had a mineral program that was not tweaked exactly right you would get 40% open cows, year in year out.
That does not appear to be the case where I am in Alberta. I've tried cheap minerals, dear minerals and kelp and none of these altered my conception rates or animal health appreciably. My believe is that there are not any significant mineral challenges on these highly mineralized soils. That's not to say my cows don't or won't eat minerals - they do and at alarmingly fast rates at some times of year. We tend now to put the cows onto trace mineral salt blocks when we pull the bulls then allow them access to a free choice mineral from 2 months prior to calving until the bulls get pulled. I'm not greatly bothered what type - i'll buy something fairly cheap. Young stock get trace mineral salt blocks only. I really don't think this is as big an issue as some people make out - it's another crutch being sold to us by input manufacturers. When I look at my cattle and see the hair coats and eyes on them I can tell you they are not lacking any significant minerals. We never treat adult cattle with wormers/anti lice treatments either. If the worst should happen and we have a few extra individuals show up open or with dull coats it's no big deal - ship them and we have just increased the genetic value of our herd.
I think cattle really like salt - kind of how I like chocolate. They would stand and eat it all day but I doubt they need it. Everybody seems to like to feed salt in N. America but that was not the case in Scotland. Try dropping it from your rations and see if you notice a difference - I suspect you won't.
 
Gee, I can never get the 'box' around a quote from a pervious post. Fustrating.
Anyway, Grassfarmer you said:

it's another crutch being sold to us by input manufacturers

Not so.


It's researchers at universities that have done a lot of field trials, etc. that tell us how important mineral is to your cowherd. There are a lot of things you haven't addressed. Conception rate, cow longevity, herd health for instance.

And there are exceptions. In my area there is one place that needs a custom mix mineral. You could be the exception. Our cattle won't eat salt, so perhaps we are the exception in another direction. In fact, we have a problem getting them to eat enough mineral in the summertime. But, we also had great health problems that we no longer have, now that we are on a good year-round mineral PROGRAM.

Here's a little something to ruminate about:

South Dakota Ranchers have battled a high selenium count in their soil for as long as they can remember. This high selenium count is due to a shale formation that lies beneath the soil and has caused copper deficiencies in their livestock, directly affecting their cattle's health and reproduction, and increasing their livestock's mortality rates.
Bob Heidgerken and Kenny McFarland, neighbors who run cattle operations near Rapid City, South Dakota, have discovered that using Vigortone minerals has raised the copper levels in their livestock and improved their livestock's health significantly.
Heidgerken's pastures are composed of many dry lake beds that are extremely high in selenium. "Other people who rented these pastures before I did couldn't raise cattle worth anything, but I think my calves are as good as anyone else's now," commented Heidgerken. "I tried injecting copper for several years, and then I started testing the copper count through liver biopsies in 2001. The initial copper levels were so low that the technician questioned if the biopsies were from cattle that were still alive," said Heidgerken. "They were still alive, but in such bad shape that I could back up a trailer with no panels and just push them right in."
Heidgerken was on the co-op board at that time, and the manager of the co-op made him a custom mix with copper sulfate. Although it wasn't a perfect program, it was the best program he had found to date. His calves gained almost 100 pounds in weaning weight and their color started looking better. "Using the new custom mix was an improvement, but my cows were still gray and I could tell that they were still having copper deficiencies," said Heidgerken.
Still searching for the best program, he talked with his neighbor Kenny McFarland. At that time, McFarland was feeding a Vigortone product designed to meet the area's needs. McFarland started with Vigortone as an FFA project in high school 20 plus years ago. Both men thought their own program was better, but if they could buy together, they would get a better deal on freight. They needed to determine which program was better.
Vigortone Area Sales Manager Brett Heiting suggested a liver biopsy. Kenny and Bob each tested three of their cows for copper levels in the liver. An average of 130 ppm copper on Vigortone versus the 6 ppm for Heidgerken's cows convinced Heidgerken to try Vigortone. After using Vigortone for nine months, he had two liver biopsies. "The copper count came back with an average in the mid 40's, which was a great improvement from the average count of six we had before we started using Vigortone products," said Heidgerken. "After nine months, the copper increased by about eight times as much."
When Heidgerken's neighbors started hearing these results, many of them decided to follow his lead. "We now have two semi loads of Vigortone mineral shipped to this area, one in the spring and one in the fall," explained Heidgerken.
"One of my neighbors is totally hooked on this stuff. He was really impressed when his cattle gained 130 to 140 pounds of weaning weight."
Kenny McFarland develops Angus heifers and sells four-year-old cows after calving the heifers twice. He consistently averages a 96-97% breedback on his heifers. "That is with a tight 45- to 50-day breeding cycle," commented McFarland. "With a good mineral program you have good health, and that is what it takes."
Heidgerken had been seeing coccidiosis in several replacement Herefords. "After I started using Vigortone with Bovatec, my cattle bred better and it cleared the coccidiosis up," said Heidgerken.
Heidgerken's calves are much healthier, too. "I don't have the sickness in the fall. In fact, I have gotten away from pinkeye, and I don't get foot rot as bad as I used to. I attribute all of that to a decent mineral program," said Heidgerken. "I got my calving dates cut back a month or more, maybe even six weeks, so I have 30 days more growth on my calves." Heidgerken's cows all bred in 42 days. All but 10 or 12 of them calved in 20 days, and cleaning problems were nonexistent.
Heidgerken uses mostly well water and feeds mineral in DuraBull feeders and a few open containers. "The wearability of Vigortone in the open containers is great. They eat the mineral good, and there is never any left in the feeders," said Heidgerken. "The longer we put mineral out, the more even their consumption is. With the other minerals we used, we would see big swings in consumption.
"We have had several other mineral companies running around the country here, trying to convert us to other minerals, and I am really impressed with our customers around here. They say, 'No, we aren't switching from Vigortone!' They have already found something that works for them."
Recently, Brett met with Kenny and Bob and it was decided to adjust their formulation to include Vigortone's new 3V concept.
We congratulate both Kenny McFarland and Bob Heidgerken on their continuing, as well as evolving, success with Vigortone. South Dakota Ranchers Search For Superior Mineral – Find Vigortone reprinted from Bunk & Bull
 
I would echo our need for minerals for a few different reasons. We are Se deficient in our area. For that reason alone it is worth using at least some mineral (treating white muscle diseased calves sucks). We calve late so the breeding mineral is becoming less important, however our third trimester is spent on high K soils (and swaths) so we have to really balance Mg, etc to ensure we don't have fetal problems. 5c per day versus feeding cattle.
We don't have the water issues many do, but sometimes water sources will bind minerals and make them less available as well. Particularly in high S situations.
I think we have to be careful not to piss away money, but a decent mineral is not a bad investment.
The last thing is that in more extensive pastures, mineral can be a useful stock distribution tool.
 
badroute said:
We are in a high calcium area so that really never becomes an issue. I know that cows won't overconsume phos. We HAVE to use a 1:1 mix to keep the consumption down. I have never really bought the whole "a cow eats only what it needs" theory. Most cows aren't much different than horses; if it's there to eat they will eat it period.

I have put out LOOMIX for cattle that have had NO MINERAL for 6 months or more.......I put out 100% bitter and stand back. They may consume up to 10# per head per day for 2-3 days, and then taper off. Within a week or so they will not touch the LOOMIX unless it is made more palatable. They have filled up on whatever it was they were deficient on, copper, phos, etc. In those instances, a cow will eat what she needs until she has repleted herself.

I have had many, many experiences like FH in putting out a quality product and watching nothing but improvement in all aspects of herd health and reproduction.

The only thing worse than putting out no mineral is putting out CO-OP mineral, IMO.
 
Well as I said on my place minerals do not appear to be a problem. I didn't say I didn't use minerals - I just said I take a minimalist approach to it.
Faster horses - as for our Conception rate - always between 92-96% in a 7 week breeding season. If I spent 3c/day/head on minerals it would cost me $1200 per 100 cows per year. If I get 1% extra conception rate that extra calf has just cost me $1200 plus it means I am continuing to breed from a line that is unadapted to my conditions rather than culling it. Is that money well spent?


Cow longevity - extreme! I bought 4 purebred cows age 14 and 15 in 2001 - shipped one at 16, one at 21, have 2 left one will go this year at 22 after she rears her next calf and my best one will be rearing and hopefully re-breeding again this summer at 23. Our run of the mill cows include plenty teenagers too.
Longevity is more to do with cow breed/type than mineral package.


Herd health - very good. Treat a few cases of footrot and pinkeye some years, virtually nothing else. We throw away more expired drugs than we use.

I think the best mineral package you can buy is having the correct type of cow for your conditions (I mean body type here not breed!) and calving in sync with nature. When you get these things right I don't think you will have much in the way of mineral problems. We certainly don't under our conditions.[/u]
 
AMEN to that GF.
The only problem we have with that approach is that our neighbours have bulls surrounding our cows for at least 2 to 3 months ahead of our schedule. Have to run a tight guard.
 
Grassfarmer, I think your idea of matching cows to environment is right on, but in some situations, $1200 spent on mineral is a heckuva lot cheaper than 30% opens and treating footrot and pinkeye twice a week. You're fortunate to live in a place where mineral supplementation isn't maybe necessary. Not everyone has that luxury. For others it might be a pretty huge ROI for those dollars spent on a mineral program.
 
Anecdotal evidence from successful operations in your immediate area carrys more weight than any amount of government research. One of the main nutrition gurus from the U'S made a swing up through here to enlighten us Canuckleheads on how to cut costs-his remedy was to graze out all winter and to feed straw. When asked about the possibility of rumen impaction he drew a blank. One thing I learned from our couple thousand mile loop through Montana and Wyoming is that I'd have no idea how to run cows down there. I sure saw alot of hills that would look good covered with bucking horses though.
 
John SD said:
Ben, does your calculator need new batteries? :wink:

At $26 per 50 lb bag my calculator comes up with $1040 per ton.

Thanks for the catch, calculator works fine, I just left out a zero when I typed it. My laptop is hooked up to my LCD TV and I use a wireless mouse/keyboard from my couch sometimes. It actually creates a smaller screen in perspective then the laptop on your lap, therefore it's hard to see your typos. I'll go back and edit.

btw, that has salt mixed in it.
 

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