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Montana Angus Journal

bookcliff said:
guys,

how many of you have had to section out curlies yet or have had $10,000+ bulls go AM carrier because the powers to be ignored Am's when it was brought to their attention 5 years ago (.
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With all of the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of calves we've had born from coast to coast......and we've had and got some Precision cattle.......NONE.... NADA....ZILCH......NO CC syndrome calves whatsoever!!!!!!!

This is why I say people are tending to yell fire in a crowded movie with a lot of this.

Sure, it exists, with other problems.....but no one ever talks about the cow side of the deal.

It's got to exist on BOTH SIDES, cow and sire,......ever hear anyone question cow families?

I've not.
 
A lot of the new DNA tools that are available today, weren't 6 months ago let alone 5 years. That said it is a big responsibility to be open and honest about defects. Every breed has them and I have dealt with several cases in many breeds - unfortunately they are often difficult if not impossible to 100% confirm.
We have used some of the newer genetics. For us the Alliance cattle were not very good, but they fit our neighbours to a tee. The Bando 9074 calves (he's a 598) are spectacular for us, but too small for our neighbours.
The old genetics have a lot of merit from not having chased the bigger, better, faster fad but in my mind that is only as applied to specific situations. If I choose to operate a high input system and drylot calves/cows, etc. I need a whack of power in my bulls.
We can blame who we like - EPD, performance, show ring but the truth is we each individually pick the sires we use and the people we buy them from. All of these things are neither good nor bad, they are just part of the information used to create a cowherd that gets our neighbours talking. :twisted:
 
Faster Horses- While the rumors are running rampant about other sires this is the only one- besides the bulls that have tested AMC (Curley Calf carriers)- that I know for sure of that has been brought into question as of now for another genetic defect... ABS pulled him from their list... And he traces back to the same blood lines as the AM carriers.

The Vets and folks working on these abnormalities that are now showing up are asking folks- commercial or seedstock- to document and photo any unusual calves born dead - and if nothing else cut an ear off- and stick it in the freezer so you can send it to them for DNA testing....

From what I've heard- altho this Hydro head showing up now is not exactly identical to- but is similar to a defect that used to show up in some dairy cattle :???:



Unusual Calf Report
February 11, 2009

Dr. Jonathan Beever of the University of Illinois has made us aware of a potential separate lethal genetic defect that may involve similar lines of cattle as those associated with Arthrogryposis Multiplex (AM). These calves display a hydrocephalus phenotype more commonly described as water on the brain. It's likely that some of these calves have previously been confused with AM calves.

We recently had the first calf of this type reported to ABS. The calf was thought to be sired by 29AN1608 Dr J ANALYST M250 and was reported to Dr. Beever for investigation. In an abundance of caution we temporarily suspended sales on ANALYST until more was understood about this condition and the calf that has been reported.

ABS routinely investigates any abnormal calves reported to us that appear to be genetic in nature utilizing resources like Dr. David Steffen at the University of Nebraska, Dr. Beever and the respective breed association.

Our policy has been and continues to be to label any bull that has been determined to be a carrier of a deleterious gene through either approved DNA testing or the identification of two or more calves that have been parent verified and confirmed through pathology to be affected by a known genetic defect.

Today, we received parent verification that the calf submitted was in fact sired by ANALYST. While this condition and its inheritance are not fully understood, Dr. Beever and Dr. Steffen have also received other affected calves with similar extended pedigrees and from a wide geographic area indicating a possible genetic component.

When more is known about this condition and suspect pedigrees, ABS will communicate that information to our Representatives and customers. We encourage you to report any unusual calves to ABS, the respective breed association and to Drs. Beever or Steffen. They will assist and coordinate getting samples distributed appropriately for complete investigation.

http://www.absglobal.com/beef/beef-news/
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When this AM deal first came out our Select Sires rep indicated that it probably originated from a Holstein source. This was his speculation. Just heard or another story of a commercial outfit that has has several AM calves.
 
you bring up the point of curly's in the holstiens. I have a retired neighor who used to be in the dairy business back in the 70's. according to him their was a bloodline that sired deformed calves very similar to curlies within the beef fresian cattle. now for what it's worth and that ain't much we have all heard the rumors over the years of this outfit or that outfit that used hostien or beef fresian breeding in the early 80's during the frame game rush. The thing that I always thought added some ligitamcy to those rumors at least here were we didn't have any white udders until the late 80's early 90's out of the angus genetics we were using.
 
I saw a picture of a Angus Champion from the Glasgow Fair in the mid 1800's 'Grey Breasted Jock' had white all along his belly. Ohlde's had a Beef Friesen herd at one time I'm pretty sure also.
 
I dont know about Fresian, but I do know Ohlde's did have Amerifax cattle at one time. I called them ready to buy a bull or two from them, but Mrs. Ohlde tried to convince me of the benefits of what they call Angus II, which has some Amerifax breeding. We wanted straight Angus and I felt something wasn't right, when she so firmly steered me to the Angus II. So we didn't buy anything and still haven't. Just got their flyer and man, they have some great looking cows. They still offer Angus II bulls, I noticed.

I kinda wish I would have thought about it and bought Homer bulls for our yearling heifers. I think he is quite a good bull.

We got into the 'white along the belly' deal in the 1980's too.
Where ours came from was a bull called Kadence Nitro. I was never crazy about that bull, but the maternal side was awesome. The cows were Black Diamond daughters and came from Canada. A man named Bernie Quigley owned the cows and leased them to Kadence Angus. When they were done with them, a good friend leased them and they were bred when he got them. We bought bulls out of those cows for seveall years and got some tremendous replacements. We kept one Kadence Nito sired
cow that had white up about 2 feet on her back legs. She was a good cow, lasted a long time. But when she freshened, her bag looked just
like a milk cow (no suprise there :shock: ). It didn't break down and she raised some great calves.
But I sure wouldn't want a bunch of those.
 
FH- you just reminded me of one of the negatives on In Focus-- he's supposed to throw some white.....

And I too have seen some of those old paintings of old angus cattle over in Scotland a couple hundred years ago- and some of them had more white on them then they could even be registered with today....
 
My first Homer daughter calved last night. She is very gentle and quiet, as I brought her in due to the snow and me wanting some sleep. She had a 70# bull calf by OCC Great Plain's. We have several Homer Echelon and Hunter heifer's in our heifer pen and 1 Hunter bull and an Echelon bull also. I will be useing quite a bit of Ohlde semen this spring along with some other's.
 
Faster horses said:
Denny, I have heard from many that Echelon is a better bull than Emblazon. Have you heard that?
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I've heard it both way's some think he's great and some think he's a dud.The bull I have started out pretty plain but is showing alot of growth and muscle here as of lately. The heifer's are just average but I will know more of them next spring.
 
What is the standard for allowing registration of Angus with white under them in Canada or the US?
I know the Galloways in Scotland didn't allow registration if there was
white in front of the navel and that was a long standing rule.
 
I'm pretty sure that the standard is the same over here. I had a funny deal here we had an old 1/2 Angus1/2 Holstein cow-she looked like a just a real good Angus cow deep ribbed-perfect udder-in fact a major Angus breeder was up visiting and tried to buy her. It was a bit awkward telling him she was half Holstein lol. When I dispersed my January calvers she topped the sale at 15 years of age-didn't owe us any money.
 
Northern Rancher said:
I'm pretty sure that the standard is the same over here. I had a funny deal here we had an old 1/2 Angus1/2 Holstein cow-she looked like a just a real good Angus cow deep ribbed-perfect udder-in fact a major Angus breeder was up visiting and tried to buy her. It was a bit awkward telling him she was half Holstein lol. When I dispersed my January calvers she topped the sale at 15 years of age-didn't owe us any money.
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I've got one that's a 1/4 holstein and she's as pretty as a picture.
 
Northern Rancher said:
Wonder just how many there are out there lol.
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Ton's of them here as years ago everyone milked cow's now not so much.

I can honestly say in my 41 years I've never milked a cow in a stantion. At the end of a rope, Lot's of Times...
 
If I want to feel trivial, useless, & insignificant, I find a registered breeder to talk to! Their "world of cattle" and mine are sure different. Problem is, making the commercial sector profitable when the Registered guys don't relate. Just my humble opinion. I've read through all the posts on this subject. I've used 6595 for a long time and like his daughters, their dispositions, etc. There were some issues touched on with In Focus. What are his problems? His sons sure top sale reports.
 

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