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More forages fun....

T

Turkey Track Bar

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,665
Location
North Central SD, South Central ND
I really enjoy the botany/forages discussions we've had. I enjoy learning about plants across the world ranchers.net members post. Heck, there is a great discussion started by Andy about reestablishing, or maybe more correctly establishing, a new pasture.

This is a grass we have in limited amounts in a couple pastures. I took these toward the end of July, when my folks were visiting. My Dad truly loves forages, range, and range management as does lazy ace. It is interesting the range plants we share (in totally different climates and soils; high mountain desert (great basin type area, but not in the great basin) vs northern plains) and those that are unique to our operations.

Anyway, lazy ace, my Dad and I had quite the discussion about this plant. We agreed and disagreed about what it is and isn't and what it's value is. So have at it!

I know we'll all be interested in the discussion!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:

PS Sorry the pics are not clearer, as is par in NW SD, the wind was blowing!

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Red Three Awn? If it is it's not very palatable. The BLM is planing a huge controlled burn to try to reduce it and get more native grass reestablished south of me.
 
I would guess red three awn too. I think that was the concensus my Dad, lazy ace and I came up with that day as well.

I am not sure why it is so thick in that one spot. It is the only place I really know of that we have it. And, I really don't recall it being there before, but I am sure it was. Maybe our cool, wet spring and cool summer have helped it along.

Funny Cedarcreek, every time I look at these pictures, especially the first, in my mind I say, "I bet that stuff burns." After our major fires a couple years ago, we are still a little fire shy at our place, so I am not so sure it would be my best move to suggest torching it.

I'd still be interested to hear what others say. Where is our resident botanist, Clarence?

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
I am probably wrong, but around here we called that RED TOP or LITTLE BLUE STEM. A type native bunch grass that grows about 12 to 18 inches tall.And you are right cows don't like it.
 
First off I will say, that I am not a botanist. What I know about grass and range plants I have learned on my own.

I guess I became interested in identifying grasses back in the 1950's. I attende a Veterans Ag class then. The district conservationist, Don Silvester gave talks on grasses and had some to display. Everyone in the class received the set of books the Phillips Petrolem Co. put out. I learned to start to identify grasses.

Back about 1990 I decided that I wanted to make an inventory of the grasses, range plants and wild flowers that grow inmy area. After I started, I showed some people my work. They said I needed pictures to go with them, or at least drawings. Well I can't draw, so I had to try to learn to take pictures.

I was lucky, we had two or three exceptionaly wet years in the early 1990's. Plants and wild flowers appeared that we had seldom seen before. I got a lot of books on range plants and tried to identify them. Some I am wrong I am sure , but that can make it interesting too. When I identified a plant I tried to find everything interesting about it. I spent 3 or 4 years putting together a book, really it was a great hobby. My intention was to print a few books with the computer to give to my neices and nephews and a few friends. I thought about 16 books. My sister thought I had put to much into this book so she re-typed it and scaned the pictures and printed some books for me. Some people have ssuggested that I have my book published, but I find it is to expensive, besides there are much better books out there anyway.

I would identify your grass a Prairie Threeawn. It looks redder then what we have here. Some people call it wire grass, it has real fine foliage and often the mower will just slide over it. It is real common on old prairie dog towns, some call it prairie dog grass.
 
Clarencen said:
First off I will say, that I am not a botanist. What I know about grass and range plants I have learned on my own.

I guess I became interested in identifying grasses back in the 1950's. I attende a Veterans Ag class then. The district conservationist, Don Silvester gave talks on grasses and had some to display. Everyone in the class received the set of books the Phillips Petrolem Co. put out. I learned to start to identify grasses.

Back about 1990 I decided that I wanted to make an inventory of the grasses, range plants and wild flowers that grow inmy area. After I started, I showed some people my work. They said I needed pictures to go with them, or at least drawings. Well I can't draw, so I had to try to learn to take pictures.

I was lucky, we had two or three exceptionaly wet years in the early 1990's. Plants and wild flowers appeared that we had seldom seen before. I got a lot of books on range plants and tried to identify them. Some I am wrong I am sure , but that can make it interesting too. When I identified a plant I tried to find everything interesting about it. I spent 3 or 4 years putting together a book, really it was a great hobby. My intention was to print a few books with the computer to give to my neices and nephews and a few friends. I thought about 16 books. My sister thought I had put to much into this book so she re-typed it and scaned the pictures and printed some books for me. Some people have ssuggested that I have my book published, but I find it is to expensive, besides there are much better books out there anyway.

I would identify your grass a Prairie Threeawn. It looks redder then what we have here. Some people call it wire grass, it has real fine foliage and often the mower will just slide over it. It is real common on old prairie dog towns, some call it prairie dog grass.
Click to expand...

Clarence,

I think you are far too humble. Even though you don't think you have enough degrees to call yourself a botanist, I think you are. There are many folks who are well respected in fields that don't have college or high school educations. Don't downplay your talent. In my opinion you are a talented botanist. Besides what shows through is your constant desire to learn.

Anyway, this is quite interesting, in my opinion. Perhaps I am being selfish but I have learned a lot and am enjoying this.

It is interesting to me, that after I posted the pictures, I went back and really looked at them. I again noticed that there is a different feature where this three-awn is.

As lazy ace and I were having supper I asked him if that was an old prairie dog town. He said, I don't know if I'd call it an old prairie dog town, it's a prairie dog town we are are constantly trying to keep from coming back to life.

It would make sense the three awn would flourish there. I can't say the cows don't eat the grass, however, I am guessing they only eat the flush, tender new growth and leave the rest. I bet the dang prairie dogs love it though, and probably are actually helping it by keeping it rejuvenated and encouraging it's spread. Nature's symbiosis at it's best, although I'd say we (the ranchers) might not particularly be to happy with it! :wink: We could sure do without the vermin and would love to have a more palatable grass. But it is grass, and thank the good Lord we have it.

Thanks for the education today ranchers.net friends. If any of you have any insight, pipe up!

And, let's see some of your "botany"!

Cheers---

TTB :wink:
 
The fifth (second last) picture reminds me of what we call speargrass. The kids pull out the awns and throw them like darts - they'll go through cotton shirts easy enough and smart, with enough umph in the throw. TTB - take lazy ace back out and do a test. :wink: :-)

Disclaimer: I have no idea what the botanical name is or if I am even remotely close.
 
I'm with everyone else sure looks like cheek grass ( downey brome ) to me I hate that stuff , the wife's range magots won't even eat it . ssap no it's not needle and thread , spear grass doesn't turn red when it cure's
 
As you can probably tell, I too enjoy this discussion on grass and plants. The first thing I want to say is there is nothing wrong in being wrong. That developes controversy and stimulate dissussion.

The grass you have pictured is not Downy Brome, although sometimes downy Brome does turn red when it matures.
Neither is it Little Blue Stem. While many ranchers do not believe cattle eat Little blue stem it is a desirable grass. The rough center is often not grazed but they relish the tender outer growth of the plant. This was natures way of it protecting itself. In The Flint Hills of Kansas Little Blue Stem is the dominae grass. The Flint Hills are some of our best grasslands.

Another plant I often see on prairie dog town is Cut Leaf Nightshade. It even is left growing on the mounds. I don't think the prairie dogs eat the foilage or destry it as it grows low and doesn't obstruct their vision, but they may eat the berries and help to spead it.

I think Andy's question also relates to this thread. Hope you keep this going.
 
Lots of interest here. First off I will say there is nothing wrong to be wrong. This helps to add to the controversy and stimulates discussion.

It is not Downy Brome although Downy Brome sometimes does turn red when it matures. It is not Little Blue Stem either. Many ranchers don't appreciat Little Blue Stem as the tougher courser centers are not readly grazed, but cattle eat the tender outer parts of the plant. This is the way nature has provided so it can protect itself. Little Blue Stem is a desireable range grass.

The Flint Hills of Kansas is predominately Little Blue Stem. The Flint Hills are noted as some of our best grasslands.

Another plant I have noticed in prairie dog towns is Cut Leaf Nightshade, at least that is what I call it. Sometimes it is even found on the mounds. I don't think prairie dogs eat the foilage and leave it alone as it doesnt obstruct their vision, but I think they eat the berries and help scatter the seed.

I enjoy this thread as you can probably tell. I hope it continues. Andy's question is also related to this thread.
 
Hey I have a question for you. Will big blue stem survive with Alfalfa? Crazy thought but why can't you plant a warm season grass of some type with alfalfa and if you get an average second cutting you could at least have some grass with it.

I can't remember if I asked my father in law this question or not.

have a good one

lazy ace
 

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